Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

From today (22 Dec), unaccompanied learner drivers can have their cars taken off them

Options
1…456810

Comments

  • Options
    #212
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    Kids shouldn’t be playing on the road.

    Well, they shouldn’t but they will. That’s a given. You’re the one driving a two ton vehicle.


  • Options
    #213
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,122 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It's embarrassing that we had to put them as a 30 zone in the first place. People should know to adjust their driving based on conditions, when kids are likely to be about, you slow down.

    It used to just take a " Children at play " sign to slow people down . Now some people need more guidance for something they should have known in the first place


  • Options
    #214
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    WTF do we have any zone in the country here a person is expect to drive at 30kmh. It’s idiotic and serves no purpose but to appease the idiots that think it’s a good idea.

    School zones are 30.


    I'll await you arguing against that, somehow.


  • Options
    #215
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Wibbs wrote: »
    On pure hard facts and results, IE the bit that counts, Ireland's roads and drivers are safer than Germany's roads and drivers.

    It is safe now. It wasn't when the old "lucky dip" licensing system was still in force.
    Funnily enough it got a lot safer after theory test, the learner permit and points came in.
    Because before that, Ireland wasn't doing so great.
    So I won't suggest that Germany does away with penalty points, enforcement and a proper licensing system.


  • Options
    #216
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nixonbot wrote: »
    School zones are 30.


    I'll await you arguing against that, somehow.

    They are 50kmh around me, some are even 80kmh as there is no speed signs around some rural schools so I will argue with it. Also keep kids off roads.

    How do people in rural areas with 80 or 100 kmh roads outside their gate manage to keep their kids under control but people in estates think they can just let their kids play on the road, it annoying the hell out of me having to drive around kids in estates they should never be on the road, the road is for cars not kids.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #217
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    They are 50kmh around me, some are even 80kmh as there is no speed signs around some rural schools so I will argue with it. Also keep kids off roads.

    How do people in rural areas with 80 or 100 kmh roads outside their gate manage to keep their kids under control but people in estates think they can just let their kids play on the road, it annoying the hell out of me having to drive around kids in estates they should never be on the road, the road is for cars not kids.
    People in urban housing estates don't have 1 acre back gardens for the kids to play in.

    Have you ever lived in an urban housing estate? Genuine question.


  • Options
    #218
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,122 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    They are 50kmh around me, some are even 80kmh as there is no speed signs around some rural schools so I will argue with it. Also keep kids off roads.

    How do people in rural areas with 80 or 100 kmh roads outside their gate manage to keep their kids under control but people in estates think they can just let their kids play on the road, it annoying the hell out of me having to drive around kids in estates they should never be on the road, the road is for cars not kids.
    So how much of your day is spent driving in suburban estates ? Probably very little so just slow down and let the kids play and try to be tolerant . Its easy once you try


  • Options
    #219
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    They are 50kmh around me, some are even 80kmh as there is no speed signs around some rural schools so I will argue with it. Also keep kids off roads.

    How do people in rural areas with 80 or 100 kmh roads outside their gate manage to keep their kids under control but people in estates think they can just let their kids play on the road, it annoying the hell out of me having to drive around kids in estates they should never be on the road, the road is for cars not kids.

    Do you really need this explained? Even modest houses in the countryside tend to have large gardens. I grew up in a small country bungalow but our garden was still massive.

    Annoying or not, planners are going to take into account that kids will play on the roads in estates. And rightfully so. They’re not going to say “Ah, who cares if X amount of kids are killed every year.”. Preserving human life is more important than appeasing drivers who sulk about having to slow down.


  • Options
    #220
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    They are 50kmh around me, some are even 80kmh as there is no speed signs around some rural schools so I will argue with it. Also keep kids off roads.

    How do people in rural areas with 80 or 100 kmh roads outside their gate manage to keep their kids under control but people in estates think they can just let their kids play on the road, it annoying the hell out of me having to drive around kids in estates they should never be on the road, the road is for cars not kids.

    Ha, you're hilarious.

    Do you disagree with 30kph limits in urban areas around schools? Not everything is rural you know, even if it is in your world.


  • Options
    #221
    martyc5674
    Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    the road is for cars not kids.

    You are grossly mistaken, the roads are for everyone.
    They are a shared space, the priority is as follows, pedestrians, then cyclists, then public transport, and at the bottom of the list is privately owned motor vehicles.
    They are designed with that priority in mind.
    Just because you own a car and the only place you drive your car is on the road, does not equate to “cars own the road”.
    In fact your motor tax is essentially a penalty tax for polluting the environment with your car.
    Marty.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #222
    9935452
    Registered Users Posts: 2,752 ✭✭✭9935452


    bladebrew wrote: »
    Patww79 wrote: »
    Was it every true that you could drive on the second provisional on your own or was that another like the "two weeks grace" car tax thing?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-expected-to-comply-with-legislation-66326.html

    Definitely was true, I ticked the box for B provisional while I had a moped, then 2 years later when I bought a car I could drive unaccompanied but legally because I was onto a 2nd provisional!
    They even refer to it in the article as a loophole that was closed, I passed my test just before it was stopped!

    The interesting thing with driving unaccompanied on a second provisional was that was the only one you could do it on. You couldnt do it on the 3rd or 4th one


  • Options
    #223
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    martyc5674 wrote:
    You are grossly mistaken, the roads are for everyone. They are a shared space, the priority is as follows, pedestrians, then cyclists, then public transport, and at the bottom of the list is privately owned motor vehicles. They are designed with that priority in mind. Just because you own a car and the only place you drive your car is on the road, does not equate to “cars own the roadâ€. In fact your motor tax is essentially a penalty tax for polluting the environment with your car. Marty.


    How did you work out that priority list?


  • Options
    #224
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    You are grossly mistaken, the roads are for everyone.
    They are a shared space, the priority is as follows, pedestrians, then cyclists, then public transport, and at the bottom of the list is privately owned motor vehicles.
    They are designed with that priority in mind.
    Just because you own a car and the only place you drive your car is on the road, does not equate to “cars own the road”.
    In fact your motor tax is essentially a penalty tax for polluting the environment with your car.
    Marty.

    Is this your own priority list or did I miss official publication?


  • Options
    #225
    martyc5674
    Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Is this your own priority list or did I miss official publication?

    Look up the “design manual for urban roads” (DMURS)
    The priority is clearly listed there.
    Marty.

    https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,32669,en.pdf

    Section 2.2.2.
    Nice big diagram.


  • Options
    #226
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    Just because you own a car and the only place you drive your car is on the road, does not equate to “cars own the road”.
    Marty.


    Motorists don't own the road, they merely pay for it.


  • Options
    #227
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Charles Babbage wrote:
    Motorists don't own the road, they merely pay for it.

    No, they don't.


  • Options
    #228
    Teddy Daniels
    Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭Teddy Daniels


    Jackson Young Sandpaper wrote: »
    Exactly, I only had an accompanied driver when on a provisional if the person with the full license happened to be going with me anyway, in fact my parents very much believed in letting us drive alone and encouraged it as they felt it’s only whe driving alone that you really get get comfortable with driving etc. I’d be inclined to agree with them and myself and my sibling all passed first time easily. We could all drive long before getting licences too.

    But that infers you wern’t comfortable driving and yet allowed to drive alone.


  • Options
    #229
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,584 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    The smugness of the thread title - about time.. ye let’s see a huge decrease in car crashes now


  • Options
    #230
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Motorists don't own the road, they merely pay for it.
    Unfortunately, they don't come anywhere near paying for the true costs of the damage done to society by their motors.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/cars-air-pollution-cost-nhs-vans-vehicles-health-bills-lung-disease-a8384806.html


  • Options
    #231
    Eggs For Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    The smugness of the thread title - about time.. ye let’s see a huge decrease in car crashes now

    Let's start with a better attitude, nationally, towards our motoring legislation. We generally take the approach of it will be grand to do what I like because there is little chance of getting caught.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #232
    martyc5674
    Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Motorists don't own the road, they merely pay for it.

    They don’t pay for it.
    All the tax payers in the country pay for it.
    Motortax is a penalty tax, you are being penalized for the negative impact your motor is having on the air quality. This money does not build transport infrastructure.


  • Options
    #233
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Unfortunately, they don't come anywhere near paying for the true costs of the damage done to society by their motors.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/cars-air-pollution-cost-nhs-vans-vehicles-health-bills-lung-disease-a8384806.html

    My old 00 Audi more than paid for itself so with the ridiculous old tax system it's on.


  • Options
    #234
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    They don’t pay for it.
    All the tax payers in the country pay for it.
    Motortax is a penalty tax, you are being penalized for the negative impact your motor is having on the air quality. This money does not build transport infrastructure.

    There was none of this environment mumbo jumbo back in the day and tax was still paid.


  • Options
    #235
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,178 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    They don’t pay for it.
    All the tax payers in the country pay for it.
    Motortax is a penalty tax, you are being penalized for the negative impact your motor is having on the air quality. This money does not build transport infrastructure.

    So explain how a car like the Nissan Leaf which claims to have zero emissions still pays motor tax then? Can you also explain how most diesel cars have lower motor tax rates than petrol cars if it's a penalty on the impact on air quality? Motor tax has been around for decades in one shape or form, well before the current batch of trendy part time conservationists ever googled their concerns about the environment. It's a vehicle ownership taxation and has nothing to do with saving the trees or the whales despite those idiots in the Green Party claiming the opposite.

    Also the last time I checked the motorist was a taxpayer too and a fairly lucrative one for consecutive Governments in this country. They pay VRT, VAT on the price of the car they own, they also pay excise duty and more VAT on fuel. Reading some of the nonsense and google top trump links posted here you would swear motorists were just take, take and more take. It's far from the truth.


  • Options
    #236
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Patww79 wrote: »
    There was none of this environment mumbo jumbo back in the day and tax was still paid.


    Do you think maybe that could be part of the reason why Irish retailers lost seven trading days this year due to extreme weather events?

    Tazzimus wrote: »
    My old 00 Audi more than paid for itself so with the ridiculous old tax system it's on.


    That's just the health costs. It doesn't include the costs of road infrastructure, or enforcement (Gardai/Courts) or road safety (RSA, Dept Transport) and more. When are motorists going to start paying their way?


  • Options
    #237
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    They don’t pay for it.
    All the tax payers in the country pay for it.
    Motortax is a penalty tax, you are being penalized for the negative impact your motor is having on the air quality. This money does not build transport infrastructure.

    A one handed face palm is no good for this. A two handed face palm is required along with repeatedly hitting one's head off the keyboard. Have you eaten any dodgy turkey over the past few days?


  • Options
    #238
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,676 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    bazz26 wrote: »
    So explain how a car like the Nissan Leaf which claims to have zero emissions still pays motor tax then?
    Possibly because of the considerable particulate emissions from tyres and brakes.

    bazz26 wrote: »
    Can you also explain how most diesel cars have lower motor tax rates than petrol cars if it's a penalty on the impact on air quality?
    Probably because the rates were set at a time when our understanding of diesel emissions was different to now.
    bazz26 wrote: »
    Motor tax has been around for decades in one shape or form, well before the current batch of trendy part time conservationists ever googled their concerns about the environment. It's a vehicle ownership taxation and has nothing to do with saving the trees or the whales despite those idiots in the Green Party claiming the opposite.
    There is some truth in this - it's just a convenient way to collect tax in Ireland, just like most other countries.


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Also the last time I checked the motorist was a taxpayer too and a fairly lucrative one for consecutive Governments in this country. They pay VRT, VAT on the price of the car they own, they also pay excise duty and more VAT on fuel. Reading some of the nonsense and google top trump links posted here you would swear motorists were just take, take and more take. It's far from the truth.
    If you want the truth, start looking at the expenditure side of the account too - start looking at what we spend on roads, on traffic enforcement, on traffic policy - start looking at how much public space is given over to storage of privately owned cars - start looking at the health costs of the 1500+ premature deaths each year due to poor air quality.


  • Options
    #239
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    That's just the health costs. It doesn't include the costs of road infrastructure, or enforcement (Gardai/Courts) or road safety (RSA, Dept Transport) and more. When are motorists going to start paying their way?

    So 18 years of high motor tax, plus tax on fuel isn't paying my way, along with God knows what else that I'm not aware of being shafted on for driving something bigger than a 1 litre?
    Motorists are a huge income source for government.

    Gardai, courts, dept transport etc are not car exclusive, so everyone pays for them, and rightly so seeing as we all use them at some stage


  • Options
    #240
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Do you think maybe that could be part of the reason why Irish retailers lost seven trading days this year due to extreme weather events?

    Maybe.

    But then again https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Big_Wind

    I don't think there were many tdi's tipping about in Ireland in 1839 yet there was still plenty of wind.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/life/remembering-the-great-irish-blizzard-of-february-1947-34482677.html
    Plenty of snow too back before the glory days of diesel..


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #241
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,178 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Possibly because of the considerable particulate emissions from tyres and brakes.

    Tyres and brakes? lol. Yet no mention of carbon emissions from the agricultural industry here.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Probably because the rates were set at a time when our understanding of diesel emissions was different to now.

    No it wasn't. If anything the current crop of diesel cars are cleaner than they were 10 years ago.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    There is some truth in this - it's just a convenient way to collect tax in Ireland, just like most other countries.

    Reality is that vehicle ownership in Ireland always has been expensive from a taxation perspective. To claim we don't pay enough is simply untrue.

    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    If you want the truth, start looking at the expenditure side of the account too - start looking at what we spend on roads, on traffic enforcement, on traffic policy - start looking at how much public space is given over to storage of privately owned cars - start looking at the health costs of the 1500+ premature deaths each year due to poor air quality.

    Not everyone lives/works or drives in Dublin so you need to think outside the goldfish bowl. Also what about what we pay on other services? What about the money we spend on the public health system on the likes of smokers, alcoholics, drug abusers? Should be stop doing that? After all that money and resources might be better spent elsewhere.


Advertisement