Is Guinness the real loser of the drink-at-home trend?

jetsonx · 29-12-2018 3:58pm #1

Even though they do sell Guinness in cans, from observation, it never really struck me as being really popular.

Is Guinness (stout) the real loser of the drink-at-home trend?

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-12-2018 4:03pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Even though they do sell Guinness in cans, from observation, it never really struck me as being really popular.

Is Guinness (stout) the real loser of the drink-at-home trend?

There's no stout of their own (or anyone elses for that matter) that's sold in bottle or can that comes close to a proper pint of it so it's definitely lost out on sales from me not going to the pub.

Phibsboro · 29-12-2018 4:05pm

I actually love the cans - store upright in the fridge for a few days before drinking, pour gently and slowly, wait a few minutes and you have a gorgeous pint that to my mind would rival a lot of pub pulls.

BeerNut · 29-12-2018 9:51pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Is Guinness (stout) the real loser of the drink-at-home trend?

Diageo picks that back up on cans of Carlsberg, Budweiser and Rockshore. I'm sure they're not bothered that Guinness is primarily a pub beer. It adds to the mystique.

RunRoryRun · 29-12-2018 9:55pm

Guinness cans are magnificent. Not as good as a great pint but holds it's own with a lot of Dublin bar pints IMO.

Ash.J.Williams · 29-12-2018 9:58pm

Guinness the pint yes diageo less so

Ash.J.Williams · 29-12-2018 9:59pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Diageo picks that back up on cans of Carlsberg, Budweiser and Rockshore. I'm sure they're not bothered that Guinness is primarily a pub beer. It adds to the mystique.

Way bigger margins in kegs though they definitely feel some pain, also brexit is coming and the beer is canned up north

29-12-2018 9:59pm

jetsonx wrote: »

it never really struck me as being really popular.

Is Guinness (stout) the real loser of the drink-at-home trend?

Guinness is the best selling slab of beer by a significant margin where I work. While they don't make a huge amount of money off it they have the market share which the diageo rep tells me is what they really care about.

andekwarhola · 30-12-2018 1:53am

Patww79 wrote: »

There's no stout of their own (or anyone elses for that matter) that's sold in bottle or can that comes close to a proper pint of it so it's definitely lost out on sales from me not going to the pub.

A can of draught guinness in a stout glass at home is pretty much the same as the one you get in the pub. Don't tell me otherwise. I'm a craft beer drinker (whatever that means: I just like good beer) but I've drank Guinness all over Dublin and the country for years and still do.

The only difference is the mystical marketing and a barman not doing the really really really essential two-part pour.

The mythical idea that pint quality of the highest selling porter in the country (with a zealous quality deperatment) varies greatly from pub to pub is largely illusory. If it's a half decently ran pub, the pints are generally the same. The rest is all Ronnie Drew Folklore bollocks about a Great Pint Of Plain.

OldMrBrennan83 · 30-12-2018 6:53am

andekwarhola wrote: »

A can of draught guinness in a stout glass at home is pretty much the same as the one you get in the pub. Don't tell me otherwise. I'm a craft beer drinker (whatever that means: I just like good beer) but I've drank Guinness all over Dublin and the country for years and still do.

The only difference is the mystical marketing and a barman not doing the really really really essential two-part pour.

The mythical idea that pint quality of the highest selling porter in the country (with a zealous quality deperatment) varies greatly from pub to pub is largely illusory. If it's a half decently ran pub, the pints are generally the same. The rest is all Ronnie Drew Folklore bollocks about a Great Pint Of Plain.

I don't know where you're getting your cans from but I've never had one to match an even average pint. Believe it or not, you're not the only person who has drank loads of it.

BeerNut · 30-12-2018 12:41pm

Patww79 wrote: »

I've never had one to match an even average pint.

In what way do they differ?

OldMrBrennan83 · 30-12-2018 12:43pm

BeerNut wrote: »

In what way do they differ?

The head you get on a can is always vile in taste and appearance, and there's something really thin and watery feeling about the drink itself. Basically like a pint that would make you drink something else on a night out.

I've forgotten for long enough that I've gave them a retry numerous times and it's always the same. The post I was replying to just reeks of a massive chip about marketing anyway but it's absolutely preposterous to say that all pints of it in all pubs are the same.

rob316 · 30-12-2018 12:53pm

Always liked the cans of Guinness. 45 degree pour slowly, leave to settle a few minutes and it's pretty good.

jetsonx · 30-12-2018 3:33pm

Some brilliant answers there!

andekwarhola wrote: »

A can of draught guinness in a stout glass at home is pretty much the same as the one you get in the pub. Don't tell me otherwise. I'm a craft beer drinker (whatever that means: I just like good beer) but I've drank Guinness all over Dublin and the country for years and still do.

The only difference is the mystical marketing and a barman not doing the really really really essential two-part pour.

The mythical idea that pint quality of the highest selling porter in the country (with a zealous quality deperatment) varies greatly from pub to pub is largely illusory. If it's a half decently ran pub, the pints are generally the same. The rest is all Ronnie Drew Folklore bollocks about a Great Pint Of Plain.

Great and hilarious deconstruction...!

What do think of the Guinness served abroad?

BeerNut · 30-12-2018 6:37pm

Patww79 wrote: »

it's absolutely preposterous to say that all pints of it in all pubs are the same.

And yet there's never any sensory evidence produced to back that position up. It just is. Sure you'd know if you drink enough pints. The head on canned Guinness is "vile".

People with training in describing and evaluating beer never seem to subscribe to "good and bad" pints of Guinness. Just a coincidence?

OldMrBrennan83 · 30-12-2018 6:41pm

BeerNut wrote: »

And yet there's never any sensory evidence produced to back that position up. It just is. Sure you'd know if you drink enough pints. The head on canned Guinness is "vile".

People with training in describing and evaluating beer never seem to subscribe to "good and bad" pints of Guinness. Just a coincidence?

There are good and bad pints of Guinness and that is simply a fact. My local is one of them, doesn't matter who pulls it, when they pull it, or how they pull it, it is not appetising in the slightest. No self proclaimed expert is going to make it taste any better.

BeerNut · 30-12-2018 6:47pm

Patww79 wrote: »

No self proclaimed expert is going to make it taste any better.

A formally qualified one isn't either, but they'd at least be able to say what if anything is wrong with it. Which would certainly help reduce the number of circular arguments on the Boards beer forum.

Del2005 · 30-12-2018 6:49pm

Patww79 wrote: »

The head you get on a can is always vile in taste and appearance, and there's something really thin and watery feeling about the drink itself. Basically like a pint that would make you drink something else on a night out.

I've forgotten for long enough that I've gave them a retry numerous times and it's always the same. The post I was replying to just reeks of a massive chip about marketing anyway but it's absolutely preposterous to say that all pints of it in all pubs are the same.

You must be storing and pouring your cans wrong. I've gotten the same quality head from a can as a pub and usually a more consistent quality from the can.

Reminds me of person I worked with who wouldn't drink milk out of the plastic cartoons because they don't like the taste of plastic, they couldn't understand that the cardboard milk cartoons are plastic lined.

Beechwoodspark · 30-12-2018 6:51pm

Regular drinker of draught Guinness and have to say the can if chilled is about as good as you get in most pubs. Probably not up to mulligans or long hall but almost there.

OldMrBrennan83 · 30-12-2018 6:53pm

Del2005 wrote: »

You must be storing and pouring your cans wrong. I've gotten the same quality head from a can as a pub and usually a more consistent quality from the can.

Reminds me of person I worked with who wouldn't drink milk out of the plastic cartoons because they don't like the taste of plastic, they couldn't understand that the cardboard milk cartoons are plastic lined.

There's no chance I've ever poured all of the hundreds of cans of Guinness I've drank wrong. Nor has each and every person who's ever poured me one either.

I can get that people prefer the way a can is, it's personal taste after all and you hear of people even liking those bottles with the bubbly yellow froth, but not in a million years for me does a can touch a proper pint of it.

But thanks, the "you think different so you're doing it wrong" has just served as a nice reminder of the forum I ventured into

sasta le · 30-12-2018 6:56pm

I laugh at people saying this pub has great Gunniess shut its all the same product in every pub

kurtainsider · 30-12-2018 7:13pm

Cans of Guinness at home - consistently very good.
Pub pints of Guinness - varies from fantastic to ****e depending on the pub.

andekwarhola · 30-12-2018 7:38pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Some brilliant answers there!

Great and hilarious deconstruction...!

What do think of the Guinness served abroad?

It's a really long time since I had a pint of Guinness outside Ireland to be fair

andekwarhola · 30-12-2018 7:55pm

I'm not knocking the marketing thing. It's actually very clever.

Diageo have convinced a huge segment of the country that would run a mile from Wrasslers, Leann Foillain or Guinness Foreign Extra that draught Guinness is some kind of alchemy that can vary from pub to pub instead of being the biggest selling drink in the country with the setup of same strictly organised and regulated by Diageo across the country.

Guinness is a big cultural thing here. Even though I frequently drink it as a default option in the absence of other stouts and know its basically cooled and tweaked over the years to almost not taste like stout anymore, I still get that Drinking A Pint Of Plain In Grogans feeling.

The fact remains that they put a mountain of money into making draught cans taste and look like pints of Guinness in a pub and they basically do.

Subcomandante Marcos · 30-12-2018 7:59pm

Patww79 wrote: »

There's no stout of their own (or anyone elses for that matter) that's sold in bottle or can that comes close to a proper pint of it so it's definitely lost out on sales from me not going to the pub.

Incorrect. There are many better stouts than Guinness in bottles, cans, and draught.

triggermortis · 30-12-2018 8:49pm

I find cans to be consistently good, once they are chilled enough but there is definitely a difference in the quality of a pint from pub to pub. I rarely go into town these days but if I do then Mulligans is always a good pint, and has been ever since I've lived here (20 years now)

andekwarhola · 30-12-2018 9:14pm

The best pints of plain invariably being in Mulligans or Grogans are because we want them to be, given how historical those superb Dublin boozers are and the history therein. I myself have supped in Grogans on and off for nearly 30 years.

The pints are pretty much the same there as in tallaght or Leitrim though.

Fanny Wank · 31-12-2018 12:57am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Incorrect. There are many better stouts than Guinness in bottles, cans, and draught.

Taste is subjective

I agree with you but it's an opinion not a fact

hetuzozaho · 31-12-2018 2:00am

Patww79 wrote: »

after all and you hear of people even liking those bottles with the bubbly yellow froth

Is that bottles of Guinness you are talking about? I enjoy them myself, more flavoursome (?) imo.

I wonder are people just not particularly fans of the flavours within a Stout, and Guinness draught just creates that smooth and less flavoursome (nice and cold) version of a Stout? I noticed people mentioning above that they enjoy the cans when chilled enough, which again is about removing the flavour I guess?

I love stouts myself. But enjoy them more when not very cold. Really enjoy Leann Follain and great that there's often a bottle behind a bar with a bad selection!

Personally find Guinness draught consistently inoffensive myself. My go to when nothing more interesting on offer though so I drink it regularly. It's always grand

All this talk of Guinness....

Edit: Actually, is a bottle of Guinness vs draught just that one is carbonated and one has nitrogen, and that's the only difference? Same recipe? And it effects the taste that much? I know loads of Guinness drinkers who couldn't drink a bottle of it.

Always Tired · 31-12-2018 2:09am

Its probably already been posted but couldn't be arsed reading the whole thread...

Um, no. Diageo own so many beer products they are well covered.

Subcomandante Marcos · 31-12-2018 2:28am

Patww79 wrote: »

There are good and bad pints of Guinness and that is simply a fact.

Guinness is one of the most homogeneous, tightly controlled food products on earth. Diageo control every aspect from the specifications of the malted barley, hop acid levels, yeast virility and age, packaging, distribution, and even the chillers are lines within the pubs that sell it, as far as even insisting that their "quality team" staff are the ones to service the chillers are clean the lines, rather than letting publicans do it themselves.

The only difference between pub A and pub B would be placebo or temperature.

If both are selling a decent amount of the product and the chillers are active and lines flowing, if you claim there's one pub better than the other, it's probably more to do with your arse preferring the shape of the stools rather than the beer itself.

The only places that genuinely have "bad" Guinness are nightclubs and function rooms in hotels where they might not sell very much at all and the lines could be sitting idle for the guts of a week, but even then once the chiller gets doing it's job and the lines are moving, it will be the exact same product as everywhere else.

Eggs For Dinner · 31-12-2018 1:10pm

I've been a Guinness drinker for many decades. Am I the only one who (accidently) discovered that the can of Guinness tastes and looks better when you pour it out of the can as fast as possible in one go? I open the tab and tip it upside down in the glass, lifting it up as it glugs out. Settles lovely after that

irelandrover · 31-12-2018 1:32pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

I've been a Guinness drinker for many decades. Am I the only one who (accidently) discovered that the can of Guinness tastes and looks better when you pour it out of the can as fast as possible in one go? I open the tab and tip it upside down in the glass, lifting it up as it glugs out. Settles lovely after that

thats how its meant to be poured. At least, thats the instructions given on the side of the can.

BeerNut · 31-12-2018 4:01pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Actually, is a bottle of Guinness vs draught just that one is carbonated and one has nitrogen, and that's the only difference? Same recipe?

Yep.

hetuzozaho wrote: »

And it effects the taste that much?

Yep. Carbon dioxide propels flavour out of the beer and into the drinker. Nitrogen locks it away.

McCrack · 31-12-2018 4:13pm

sasta le wrote: »

I laugh at people saying this pub has great Gunniess shut its all the same product in every pub

Yes but how it's stored and delivered (from the keg to the tap) varies between pubs hence differences

Guinness delivered with the shortest draw from the keg, and poured correctly and at the right temperature tastes better

irish_goat · 31-12-2018 4:16pm

BeerNut wrote: »

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Edit: Actually, is a bottle of Guinness vs draught just that one is carbonated and one has nitrogen, and that's the only difference? Same recipe? And it effects the taste that much? I know loads of Guinness drinkers who couldn't drink a bottle of it.

Yep.

Guinness website leaves a little ambiguity with regards to that question, imo.

https://www.guinness-storehouse.com/en/faq#

DOES GUINNESS® DRAUGHT USE THE SAME BREWING RECIPE AS EXTRA STOUT?
There's no point messing with perfection, which is why the recipes for Guinness Draught and Guinness Foreign Extra Stout are very similar in all aspects. Guinness Draught is dispensed using a mixture of nitrogen and carbon dioxide to produce the famous tight creamy head, while Guinness Foreign Extra Stout has more carbonation.

Snipp · 31-12-2018 4:20pm

I can not believe this is even a discussion. A draught guinness is far superior to a can in my opinion. The difference between a draught guinness from pub to pub however, is negligible.

Bruthal · 31-12-2018 4:21pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Edit: Actually, is a bottle of Guinness vs draught just that one is carbonated and one has nitrogen, and that's the only difference? Same recipe? And it effects the taste that much? I know loads of Guinness drinkers who couldn't drink a bottle of it.

Well the drop in pressure in the can when its opened causes the widget to break its seal and inject the now higher than the can internal pressure nitrogen into the guinness, which can be heard happening, giving it the pub like head and texture etc.

Years ago they had a sort of syringe out to allow a head be created on the cans/bottles of guinness if i remember correctly.

Wildly Boaring · 31-12-2018 4:22pm

Del2005 wrote: »

You must be storing and pouring your cans wrong. I've gotten the same quality head from a can as a pub and usually a more consistent quality from the can.

Reminds me of person I worked with who wouldn't drink milk out of the plastic cartoons because they don't like the taste of plastic, they couldn't understand that the cardboard milk cartoons are plastic lined.

Plastic milk is vile and the work of the devil

irish_goat · 31-12-2018 4:27pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Years ago they had a sort of syringe out to allow a head be created on the cans/bottles of guinness if i remember correctly.

They also have a weird vibrating "surger" unit installed in some pubs in Britain. I couldn't believe it when I first saw it. They've basically built a fake tap tower which the bartender puts a freshly poured can on and it's supposed to recreate the nitro pour.

guinn.jpg?w=330&h=232

Dont be at yourself · 31-12-2018 4:34pm

Cans of Guinness are great (didn't the widget win a BBC poll on best invention of the last millennium?), but my biggest problem is that the cans are 500ml, and all the Guinness glasses I've nicked from pubs are pint glasses. That gap at the top does my head in.

A possible reason why people don't enjoy their cans so much; be careful not to wash your glasses in the dishwasher, or with too much detergent or soap. Ruins the head and makes it taste much more watery.

L1011 · 31-12-2018 4:39pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Reminds me of person I worked with who wouldn't drink milk out of the plastic cartoons because they don't like the taste of plastic, they couldn't understand that the cardboard milk cartoons are plastic lined.

The difference with milk cartons is that UV - which does penetrate PET bottles - damages milk over time. This was one of the main reasons the cartons were invented in the first place, seeing as glass bottles already existed

I did market research on that surger years ago. I think I was even sent a mini one as they did flog them to punters for a while

irish_goat · 31-12-2018 4:44pm

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Cans of Guinness are great (didn't the widget win a BBC poll on best invention of the last millennium?), but my biggest problem is that the cans are 500ml, and all the Guinness glasses I've nicked from pubs are pint glasses. That gap at the top does my head in.

They have 500ml glasses in gift packs from time to time, I'm not a fan of them though.

eskerman · 31-12-2018 5:03pm

I have been drinking Guinness for many years ( light moderate drinker) and I have to say I find the cans to be very good - never had a "bad" one and they are consistent. Too many pubs that claim to serve the "best" pint - for me the best pint is from a nicely chilled can and poured steady - and consumed in my man-cave.. with some decent music (vinyl of course) playing in the background. I will however support my local and pop down for the odd one on the high stool

Happy New Year and cheers

P

09-01-2019 6:48pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

A can of draught guinness in a stout glass at home is pretty much the same as the one you get in the pub. Don't tell me otherwise. I'm a craft beer drinker (whatever that means: I just like good beer) but I've drank Guinness all over Dublin and the country for years and still do.

The only difference is the mystical marketing and a barman not doing the really really really essential two-part pour.

The mythical idea that pint quality of the highest selling porter in the country (with a zealous quality deperatment) varies greatly from pub to pub is largely illusory. If it's a half decently ran pub, the pints are generally the same. The rest is all Ronnie Drew Folklore bollocks about a Great Pint Of Plain.

Wrong on so many levels. Also, the two part pour is the only mystical bollocks associated with Guinness. Here's a challenge: Ask the barman to pour two pints next time you're in your local. One normal and one full pour. I guarantee you even the most seasoned garglers will be 50/50 on identifying which is which.

An old barfly in my local told me once that it stems from the days before modern refrigeration and kegging techniques were developed. Open barrels would spoil in the heat and be that little bit more stale. So enterprising barmen would have a 'fresh' barrel on the go and use that to top up the older stuff in the glass from the first pour so that, for the first few sups at least, it tastes great. No idea of the veracity, but try the blindfolded taste test in a group and see what the results are.

andekwarhola wrote: »

The best pints of plain invariably being in Mulligans or Grogans are because we want them to be, given how historical those superb Dublin boozers are and the history therein. I myself have supped in Grogans on and off for nearly 30 years.

The pints are pretty much the same there as in tallaght or Leitrim though.

Have you been in Mulligans lately? The old bar staff bought the place and retired, installing a load of minimum wage staff who are brutal at their job. Loads of overpriced "Mulligan's" tat for sale hanging on the walls etc. It's a far cry from its glory days. Last time I was there, Guinness drinkers were in the minority. I realised why as I walked out the door leaving a half full pint on the bar.

On topic: Cans of Guinness are much more watery than most draught pints, certainly in Ireland. Actually, cans remind me of pints you'd get in an English bar.

ELM327 · 09-01-2019 6:54pm

The head is different from the can to draught in a pub.
I feel the flavour is a lot rounder, creamier in a pub too.

You absolutely can get a good and bad guinness in different pubs. I'm not saying the 2 part pour is necessary or anything but there can be variance in the flavor between pubs.

irish_goat · 09-01-2019 7:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

An old barfly in my local told me once that it stems from the days before modern refrigeration and kegging techniques were developed. Open barrels would spoil in the heat and be that little bit more stale. So enterprising barmen would have a 'fresh' barrel on the go and use that to top up the older stuff in the glass from the first pour so that, for the first few sups at least, it tastes great. No idea of the veracity, but try the blindfolded taste test in a group and see what the results are.

Close, but the two part pour came from the days of cask beers. The older casks would have conditioned more, so have more flavour, whilst the newer casks would have a little more carbonation to them. Good video on it below. There is not a hope in hell that a blindfolded person could tell the difference between the taste of a one pour or two poured pint of draught Guinness these days.

ballyargus · 09-01-2019 7:21pm

The two part pour is hogwash. Guinness cans have improved immeasurably since the introduction of the widget. They are close to but not as good as a pint served by tap. Guinness is delicious. End of discussion. Go and have whatever variant is more convenient right now.

EDIT: Yes the can should be poured inverted, quickly and in one go.

dogtoffee · 09-01-2019 7:30pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote:

I've been a Guinness drinker for many decades. Am I the only one who (accidently) discovered that the can of Guinness tastes and looks better when you pour it out of the can as fast as possible in one go? I open the tab and tip it upside down in the glass, lifting it up as it glugs out. Settles lovely after that

That's how I pour mine they are perfect every time.

andekwarhola · 10-01-2019 3:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrong on so many levels. Also, the two part pour is the only mystical bollocks associated with Guinness. Here's a challenge: Ask the barman to pour two pints next time you're in your local. One normal and one full pour. I guarantee you even the most seasoned garglers will be 50/50 on identifying which is which.

An old barfly in my local told me once that it stems from the days before modern refrigeration and kegging techniques were developed. Open barrels would spoil in the heat and be that little bit more stale. So enterprising barmen would have a 'fresh' barrel on the go and use that to top up the older stuff in the glass from the first pour so that, for the first few sups at least, it tastes great. No idea of the veracity, but try the blindfolded taste test in a group and see what the results are.

Have you been in Mulligans lately? The old bar staff bought the place and retired, installing a load of minimum wage staff who are brutal at their job. Loads of overpriced "Mulligan's" tat for sale hanging on the walls etc. It's a far cry from its glory days. Last time I was there, Guinness drinkers were in the minority. I realised why as I walked out the door leaving a half full pint on the bar.

On topic: Cans of Guinness are much more watery than most draught pints, certainly in Ireland. Actually, cans remind me of pints you'd get in an English bar.

I already know about the history of the two-part pour. It was only retained for modern Guinness for marketing and to conform to people's notions of how stout was poured.

I think the points I was making, albeit in a bit of flowery way, was just that Guinness is one of the most rigidly controlled mass-market drinks out there and that the idea that pint 'quality' varies radically from pub to pub is more a romantic perception than fact. As is the taste difference between widget cans and draught Guiness for me. It's all part of the perception around one of the most romaticised alcoholic drinks in the world.

These kinds of discussions are opinion-based at the end of the day, and destined to be circuitious and unresolved no matter how forcefully people decide to pepper their posts with credos like 'End Of Discusion' and 'XY is Different Because It Just Is' or 'XY is Watery'.

Just enjoy the beer :pac:

ceekay74 · 10-01-2019 4:10pm

Been drinking Guinness for 20yrs + (edit; not non-stop)

In my experience, if you take a room temperature can and lash it into a pint glass, raising the can slowly up as the glass fills (be careful as it may overflow), you will get a lovely large creamy head and be able to taste the drink properly. Repeating the same pour from a can that has been in the fridge for a couple of days and is quite cold, the head won't be as thick as the taste is quite muted.

With my liking being able to taste the guinness, a thick head, and a bit of chill, I usually leave a can in the fridge (turned up to max) for an hour before drinking. Perfect balance for my taste.

Guinness quality can vary from pub to pub, and sometimes even from day to day in the same pub. Not sure why. But when they're nice, they're better than the cans.

Cans are consistently very good.

Is Guinness the real loser of the drink-at-home trend?

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