Do I walk?

cannotlogin · 29-12-2018 10:23PM

Ah come on, whatever about yourself at least protect your kids because your wife is of no benefit to them.

Tell her she needs to leave the house to address her drinking. Your kids need one decent parent.

Paddy Cow · 30-12-2018 12:30AM

cannotlogin wrote: »

Ah come on, whatever about yourself at least protect your kids because your wife is of no benefit to them.

Tell her she needs to leave the house to address her drinking. Your kids need one decent parent.

A million times this. You say you don't want to break up the family for the sake of the kids but it sounds like this marriage has already passed the crisis point and it's only a matter of either you or your wife leaving. She is the one with the alcohol and abuse problems, so she should be the one to leave.

Lets say you don't contact the Guards, the marriage breaks up and she gets everything. She still has a drinking problem, only you aren't there to be the target of her rages. She may or may not take it out on the kids.

In ten/fifteen years time when the kids are adults and they ask you why you left, what are you going to say? You can't say it was because your wife was physically abusive because there will be no proof of that and god knows what she will have told them in the interim.

Op I cannot stress this enough - she is physically abusive and each time the abuse has escalated, to the point where she did it in front of others. It doesn't matter that she's a woman and you can overpower her. She has clearly lost control and all respect for you. She's not even apologetic and is down playing it, which is a giant red flag. She refuses to address her drinking issues and while she is attending counselling with you, she lied to the counsellor, so she is not taking it seriously. You lied for her so your counselling sessions are basically worthless and the only one benefiting is the counsellor who gets paid, thinking they are helping a couple.

Honestly op, I don't know what advice anyone can give you on this thread that you will listen to. I'll repeat, definitely don't walk because that just gives your wife ammunition legally and leaves your kids in a vulnerable position.

As the above poster said, the kids deserve one decent parent. You say you are not the best husband but that doesn't mean you can't be a great Dad. Your kids deserve better than a mother who verbally goes off at them and also abuses their Dad. You are kidding yourself if you think the kids don't notice what goes on. They do and it affects them well into adulthood.

Honestly I'm sorry you are going through this, especially this time of year. It's a sh!t situation for you and your kids. You have to make the best choices for your kids right now. Focus on them, not your wife.

LegacyUser · 30-12-2018 12:52AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

No need to quote entire post.

Thanks for this and other people for their advice. It's really helped me put things in perspective because I was underplaying it.

Just to be clear. Neither of us lied to the counsellor. We both filled in the form honestly. She really didn't want to but, to be fair, she did it. It just didn't come up in the sessions which sort of solidified in my mind that it wasn't that serious. Also, she isn't a roaring drunk 24 hours a day that goes around shouting and hitting. She can actually be quite charming and likable most of the time and is a good mother most of the time. That said, you are right, the kids will pick up on this and what they saw and heard.

I'm not going to walk out. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I didn't do everything in my power to do the right thing by my kids. I have witnesses that she's attacked me, there is a signed form with a counsellor admitting it and I have text messages from the last few days. So I can prove, fairly conclusively what she's done. I'll speak to Amen on Wednesday and take their advice on it.

Thanks again everyone. This isn't possible to discuss really with people I know so I do appreciate the honest replies I've gotten here.

Kidchameleon · 30-12-2018 11:23AM

Good luck OP, fair play to you.

Sittingpretty · 30-12-2018 11:40AM

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

Thanks for this and other people for their advice. It's really helped me put things in perspective because I was underplaying it.

Just to be clear. Neither of us lied to the counsellor. We both filled in the form honestly. She really didn't want to but, to be fair, she did it. It just didn't come up in the sessions which sort of solidified in my mind that it wasn't that serious. Also, she isn't a roaring drunk 24 hours a day that goes around shouting and hitting. She can actually be quite charming and likable most of the time and is a good mother most of the time. That said, you are right, the kids will pick up on this and what they saw and heard.

I'm not going to walk out. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I didn't do everything in my power to do the right thing by my kids. I have witnesses that she's attacked me, there is a signed form with a counsellor admitting it and I have text messages from the last few days. So I can prove, fairly conclusively what she's done. I'll speak to Amen on Wednesday and take their advice on it.

Thanks again everyone. This isn't possible to discuss really with people I know so I do appreciate the honest replies I've gotten here.

I think you’re doing exactly the right thing. Wait it out and the people at Amen will be able to tell you what the best course of action is.

I hope she eases off on the drinking between now and then and you don’t have to deal with anymore outbursts between now and then.

Best of luck

splinter65 · 30-12-2018 11:43AM

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Honestly I agree when him to some extent. Despite the pc outlook on it If it is a woman striking a man i believe it is less serious. Much less. At the end of the day the average 6' man is extremely unlikely to come to physical harm from a few slaps from a drunken petite lady.
The same is not true if the roles are reversed as a man could do serious injury or even kill a woman with just one punch.

It's one of those instances where men and women are not equal and the same roles don't apply no matter how much pcology is applied.

I’ve just been reading a book about how Tracey Edwards stabbed her boyfriend Lee Harvey 42 times until he was dead with a penknife in a fit of uncontrollable rage. She managed to compose herself sufficiently to lie lie lie to the police her family judge and jury who fortunately saw through it and found her guilty.
There are plenty of 6’4” men in this country today who have taken very bad beatings from 5’2” women armed with all sorts of weapons and I’ll ask you nicely NOT to denigrate their suffering in this way.

cannotlogin · 30-12-2018 11:52AM

Op, she doesn't have to be a roaring drunk all the time to be an alcoholic. In fact, a consistent roaring drunk is probably easier to deal with than an inconsistent one who can change in an instant.

I know you say she can be great at times, which in fairness is probably true & that she's not a bad mother but the reality is this-

1. She has proven she loses control, therefore you have no guarantees that you or the kids are safe

2. She has proven she cannot even hide this loss of control like many abusers. She has zero control & is competely unpredictable.

3. Your kids are probably terrified. My parents rarely drank but I can clearly remember two occasions from my childhood where they were tipsy at most, following funerals both times. Because we were so sheltered from alcohol as kids, we were afraid seeing a tipsy person!!! I can only imagine how your kids are feeling

4. You are all your kids have. Their mother is an abusive alcoholic so they cannot rely on her any longer. You are the one who will shape their future; how they deal with abusive relationships, their attitude towards alcohol, their attitute towards conflict etc. You will shape the template for how their lives turn out.

Ask yourself if any of your kids found themselves in your position when they grow up what advice would you give them? What would you think of their partner? What would you hope they would do?

Then ask yourself why does the same advice not apply in your situation.

Also don't fool yourself on how hidden her alcoholism is, her family & friends probably all know and will support you for the sake of the kids.

afkasurfjunkie · 30-12-2018 12:02PM

How often is she drinking? Is it every night or from first thing in the morning? Where is she getting the drink from? Is she driving your kids around while under the influence? Or could she set the house on fire?

LegacyUser · 30-12-2018 12:29PM

OP, if your therapist didn't flag the domestic abuse, I would say it's down to that therapist being p*ss poor at their job rather than it not being serious. I would find a different therapist, one who understands that domestic violence against men is just as bad as domestic violence against women.

Bottom line - you are being abused. It doesn't matter if your wife is charming most of the time, or a good mother most of the time. She is domestically abusive some of the time and once is one time too many.

Don't ever minimise it or think it's not as serious because you're a man. Abuse is abuse, gender is irrelevant.

LegacyUser · 30-12-2018 02:23PM

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

How often is she drinking? Is it every night or from first thing in the morning? Where is she getting the drink from? Is she driving your kids around while under the influence? Or could she set the house on fire?

She'll drink several evenings a week and won't go anywhere socially unless there is a drink in it. Anything she does for herself involves alcohol somewhere.

But she's not the image I have in my head of a stereotypical alcoholic. She doesn't wake up needing one, she doesn't drink every day or anything. She holds down a good job. But when there is something on, she'll often drink to a state that will endanger her or me. However, I'm not aware of her ever directly endangering the kids by being drunk or driving while drunk.

Pawwed Rig · 30-12-2018 02:41PM

You are in denial. Look at your quotes below. This is not normal. Alcohol is adversley affecting your lives. That is a problem

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

She'll drink several evenings a week and won't go anywhere socially unless there is a drink in it. Anything she does for herself involves alcohol somewhere.

when there is something on, she'll often drink to a state that will endanger her or me.

I'm not aware of her ever directly endangering the kids by being drunk or driving while drunk.

Hannibal_Smith · 30-12-2018 03:19PM

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

She'll drink several evenings a week and won't go anywhere socially unless there is a drink in it. Anything she does for herself involves alcohol somewhere.

But she's not the image I have in my head of a stereotypical alcoholic. She doesn't wake up needing one, she doesn't drink every day or anything. She holds down a good job. But when there is something on, she'll often drink to a state that will endanger her or me. However, I'm not aware of her ever directly endangering the kids by being drunk or driving while drunk.

Maybe she's not an alcoholic, she could be a binge drinker though. Whatever category she fits into, when she drinks there's a problem. Her behaviour when she drinks is such a problem, you're posting here wondering whether you should end your marriage.

You don't have to be a raving alcoholic to have a problem with drink. If it brings out the worst in you, that's enough to make you re-consider whether alcohol is for you.

Big Bag of Chips · 30-12-2018 03:20PM

An alcoholic doesn't have to be knocking back a bottle of vodka in the morning in order to be an alcoholic. She is what's called a functioning alcoholic, and you are what's called an enabler. You are making life easier for her and allowing her the space and opportunity to drink as much as she does.

Her drinking mightn't be a problem for her, but it is most certainly a problem for you and your children. If it wasn't this thread wouldn't exist.

You can't anything about her, yet. You're not in the mind frame yourself yet to admit that this is, or at least is becoming a big problem in your house. Your first step should be an Al-Anon meeting. Along with speaking to AMEN.

Drinking isn't a problem for her yet, because so far, regardless of what she does, there are no consequences for her . Her drinking is a problem for you, and your children, because you are suffering the consequences of her drinking.

You are not ready to fully accept that yet, though. It takes a very long time.

shesty · 30-12-2018 10:24PM

OP you need to do some googling on alcohol.There are quite a number of studies and articles about in recent years about people who are not alcoholics strictly but who can't get through a week without going through a bottle of wine most evenings and needing alcohol for social occasions.It is quite a common thing now for women of a certain age -30s, 40s -( and I am one myself) - who have good jobs, possibly kids etc.It is binge drinking verging on functioning alcoholism, depending on the number of nights it occurs and the quantities drunk.I mean, I like a drink, I have a good full time job, I have small kids but I do not drink 3/4 nights a week or binge at weekends.Nor do most people I know with small kids.Admittedly, just me, but that's just a comparison.

Your kids are seeing their mother regularly bingeing on alcohol, shouting abuse at their father and on one occasion, it has verged towards violence.That they have seen.What have they heard??I hope you get the help you need, because you do have a problem here, and I hink she does too.

Payton · 30-12-2018 11:59PM

I think you have been given some great advice here. Sometimes the truth is looking at us and for some reason we are choose not face up to what is in front of us...we are all guilty of it at some stage when we are met with a situation that will change our lives for ever. It's a mask we wear, hoping we can get away with what happens and brush things off as something flippant, but inevitable the mask slips and reality hits home and you can never put that mask on again and you have take responsibility for the outcome not doing the right thing.
I tried and tried to dilute my ex wifes issues..I lied for her..I carried on for the sake of the family, I tried to hide it from my children.
Well the mask slipped and I was left hurt both mentally and physically. This time I listened to the advice I was given before. The only person that was able to control my ex was the judge when I sought a safety order and it worked.
My children are adults now, my children thank me now for what i did..for making a stand against a bully. They are mentally scarred from what happened as am I but we get on with life..it treats us well and we treat life well.
But I'll never get over the hurt I put my children through for all those years. That's my cross I carry and I wouldn't like anyone to carry the same burden.
Life is for living, hearing your children laugh, spending the time with them. Life will go on what ever path you choose but I'm glad a I choose the path I did.
Best of luck OP

professore · 31-12-2018 11:58AM

can't log in wrote: »

Behaviour like that escalates. We've seen it enough in the news where the man is the abuser and kills the partner. .

There are several high profile cases involving Irish people recently where the woman has murdered her male partner, one in particular following escalating domestic abuse.

TheBoyConor · 31-12-2018 05:47PM

Yes but in that case she was clearly driven to kill him as a result of years of abuse, beatings and mental torture he inflicted on her.

dudara · 31-12-2018 07:47PM

A reminder to all posters - please focus on offering constructive and specific advice to the OP. General chat is not allowed.

Happy new year
dudara

zapper55 · 31-12-2018 08:04PM

Theboyconor your attitude is why more men don't report domestic abuse. Psychological abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse.

I seem to remember a mod post asking that you not give any more relationship advice.

AndrewJRenko · 01-01-2019 03:18AM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

You won't be the one leaving, your abusive alcoholic wife will be the one leaving. No one is going to give her custody of your children. She is an addict with violent impulses. And she is taking no responsibility whatsoever for her actions. You need to talk to Amen, and to get a solicitor. Your wife may never change her behaviour, in fact it is escalating. Protect yourself and your kids.

Are you really, really sure about this?

wiggle16 · 01-01-2019 11:29PM

Mod note:

AndrewJRenko, see the admin warning above. If you do not have constructive advice for the OP, please do not post.

zapper55 wrote: »

I seem to remember a mod post asking that you not give any more relationship advice.

Zapper55, if you have an issue with a post, please report it.

I understand posters can become frustrated with one another and with one another's advice, that's the nature of PI, but as far as possible, that should be kept out of the thread.
It's also unfair to bring up previous moderation of a user's posts in a thread, if any. Posters are welcome in PI/RI until such time as a moderator decides otherwise. I'd kindly ask that you please not do that again.

Thanks & happy new year

osarusan · 02-01-2019 12:18AM

Hi OP. Let me tell you a quick story. A few years ago, I went out to a birthday party of a guy I worked with. His wife and other friends were there too. He wouldn't be a big drinker, and would normally only have a couple of pints but was drinking vodka and maybe whiskey heavily that night (egged on by the rest of us, unfortunately).

He got hammered and ended up thinking it would be hilarious to reveal some things about his and his wife's sex life. She was absolutely mortified and literally ran out of the place.

In the sober aftermath, he apologised sincerely, and promised to never drink such strong booze to excess again. To the best of my knowledge, he has never done so (and has definitely never done so in my presence anyway). They got over it and are still together happily.

That's somebody who did something stupid when they were drunk, realised it was horrible and wrong, and had deeply hurt somebody they loved. And they made decisions and followed through on those decisions to make things right again.

Now compare that with this:

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

Finally, by way of an update, I told her today that she needs to stop drinking or our marriage is over. After fighting back with "you do stupid things when you're drunk too", she's currently in front of the TV on her own having been drinking for the last 3-4 hours. Fortunately, she's nowhere near the level of drunk where the aggression starts.

In this forum, we get a lot of the "But they are such a nice, loving person when they aren't drunk/jealous/whatever" and you have said that too. But you need to reevaluate that I think. Instead of apologies and genuine attempts to make things right, she deflects, pretends, ignores, doubles down. That's not nice or loving.

Your wife has hit you after drinking to excess. And your wife, when sober, knows that if she drinks to excess, there's the chance she'll hit you. And she still drinks to excess anyway.

As others have said, start planning things so that if a split does happen, you are as prepared as you can be. AMEN will be a good place to get advice. I'm not sure if/when to get the police involved, but it would be good to have all incidents/history documented somewhere, so that there is a record of what has happened.

Irish_rat · 02-01-2019 04:22AM

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

She has begged and pleaded and said she will go and get help. Maybe that's the next step but I'm starting to feel like this really isn't for me any more. The kids are the only reason I'm staying and while I realise that sounds a bit weak, the thought of ripping their world apart of having restricted access to them tears me apart.

This sounds all familiar OP, these situations don't tend to get better really only much worse over time. To be honest it's a very serious issue, you wouldn't be posting here otherwise, I think you need to stress it much clearer to your wife that she has a problem. Carrying out physical abuse and then in front of people you know would be the end game for many I'm sure on here tbh.

AndrewJRenko · 02-01-2019 02:34PM

wiggle16 wrote: »

Mod note:

AndrewJRenko, see the admin warning above. If you do not have constructive advice for the OP, please do not post.

Fair point - it was a bit clumsy. Let me try to restate my point in a constructive manner.

I don't think it's safe for the OP to assume that the scenario set out by Teyla will come into play. I don't have extensive experience of these matters, but from my little experience, the default position in disputed issues around parenting during separation is that the mother stays with the children in the family home until they reach adulthood. The father is left to find alternative accommodation, while continuing to fund the family accommodation. It is difficult, though not impossible to move beyond this to achieve the scenario set out by Teyla, where the father would remain in the home and the mother would move out.

I wouldn't be expecting a huge reaction from Tusla either. On the scale of things that they deal with, this is probably fairly low down as a priority.

Teyla's suggestions of contacting Amen and maybe a solicitor are very helpful, and the OP should explore his options there.

Emme · 02-01-2019 03:52PM

OP I haven't read the full thread but I read your first post. Two things come to mind.

Firstly is it good for your children to be around regular verbal and occasional physical abuse to their father?

Even if you (as you say yourself) are not the "perfect" husband. There is no such thing as a perfect husband or wife but violence and abuse should not be tolerated under any circumstances.

Secondly contact AMEN and talk to them immediately if you haven't done so already.

www.amen.ie

Most of the posters here would not advise a woman to stay with a man if he slapped her, the same should apply to men who are being slapped by a partner.

retro:electro · 03-01-2019 12:53AM

Op take it from someone who wishes their mother mustered up the strength and got out and took us with her many years ago. You are not benefiting your children by staying in an abusive relationship. If anything, you’re setting a standard be tolerated and a level of expectation when it comes to relationships. Please show them that this is not how you treat someone you love. Please show them that they are worth more than being witness to verbal assault time after time. You think it isn’t affecting them right now but believe me it is. Kids show amazing resilience but the impact is imprinting. Please get out.

ManOfMystery · 03-01-2019 11:07AM

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

Thanks for this and other people for their advice. It's really helped me put things in perspective because I was underplaying it.

Just to be clear. Neither of us lied to the counsellor. We both filled in the form honestly. She really didn't want to but, to be fair, she did it. It just didn't come up in the sessions which sort of solidified in my mind that it wasn't that serious. Also, she isn't a roaring drunk 24 hours a day that goes around shouting and hitting. She can actually be quite charming and likable most of the time and is a good mother most of the time. That said, you are right, the kids will pick up on this and what they saw and heard.

I'm not going to walk out. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I didn't do everything in my power to do the right thing by my kids. I have witnesses that she's attacked me, there is a signed form with a counsellor admitting it and I have text messages from the last few days. So I can prove, fairly conclusively what she's done. I'll speak to Amen on Wednesday and take their advice on it.

Thanks again everyone. This isn't possible to discuss really with people I know so I do appreciate the honest replies I've gotten here.

This is the thing. You're trying to 'do right by your kids' by keeping the family unit contained and together. Have you stopped to ask yourself if that is really the best thing to do for them?

If this situation continues - and judging by the 3 attacks already and your wife's apparent belief that she has no problem and will continue drinking, in my opinion it will most definitely continue - your children will eventually be exposed to this. And it will normalise domestic violence for them because they will be shown that (a) it's ok for mummy to hit daddy, and (b) it's ok to be hit by mummy because daddy hasn't reported it or removed himself/us from this situation.

Do you want them to grow up believing that this is what constitutes normal behaviour in a relationship?

There's also a massive question mark for me over escalation. Your wife can't control herself when drunk, that's already established. How long until one of the kids gets a bit bigger and older and makes a typical cheeky teenager remark and she goes for one of them?

There's an old cliche of "I'd rather be from a broken home than in a broken home" but it rings true here. Breaking up a family unit is not always the worst thing that can happen, the potential for more severe long term damage here is high if you continue to remain in this situation particularly when your wife has made no indication of tackling her own behaviour.

LegacyUser · 03-01-2019 02:40PM

So I spoke to AMEN and it wasn’t that positive. They were helpful and listened but they basically said it depends what I want. If I want to end the marriage then I’m unlikely to get the kids. If I say that she’s abused me, all she has to do is throw the same accusation back at me and it’s then a judgement call for the judge and judges tend to side with the mother in these cases. I could report what happened last week but because she didn’t actually hit me last week, any complaint probably won’t go too far.

So I’m left with a choice of go for it and, on the balance of probabilities, my kids will be left with her or stick it out and try to salvage the marriage.

I’ll take some time to think but my next step may be a solicitor.

Paddy Cow · 03-01-2019 03:04PM

Marriageintrouble wrote: »

So I spoke to AMEN and it wasn’t that positive. They were helpful and listened but they basically said it depends what I want. If I want to end the marriage then I’m unlikely to get the kids. If I say that she’s abused me, all she has to do is throw the same accusation back at me and it’s then a judgement call for the judge and judges tend to side with the mother in these cases. I could report what happened last week but because she didn’t actually hit me last week, any complaint probably won’t go too far.

So I’m left with a choice of go for it and, on the balance of probabilities, my kids will be left with her or stick it out and try to salvage the marriage.

I’ll take some time to think but my next step may be a solicitor.

Definitely do this. Some solicitors do free consultations. One thing Niall Boylan stressed to men was to make sure you get a solicitor who is going to fight your corner. He went through the separation process last year. Many solicitors will just say "this is how it is" (just like the answer you got from Amen but you don't have to accept that. Keep looking until you find one who will do their best for you, not just go along with the outdated view that mothers get the kids no matter what.

Keep a log of every evening she drinks and how much she drinks. If she gets drunk, get a video. Just because what Amen said was disheartening, doesn't mean you have to throw in the towel.

Kidchameleon · 03-01-2019 05:19PM

What a horrible country we live in. Makes me sad that they said that to you OP

Do I walk?

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