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Is anybody mourning the loss of Manly /Womanly arts?

245678

Comments

  • #32
    Sky King
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    Whatever about hunting rabbits with your bare hands etc, tying a few basic knots (bowline, truckers, reef knot etc) is a skill that everyone should have.

    It takes 5 mins to learn how to tie a bowline. That is a hugely valuable, time saving and useful skill you'll have for life.... fantastic payback for effort expended.


  • #33
    friendlyfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    looksee wrote: »
    I saw an article recently where a surgeon was bemoaning the fact that student doctors had no dexterity skills and it was very difficult to teach them to stitch up a wound as they had no experience of using needles/tools.

    What's that got to do with their youth? Sounds more like lack of experience or training.


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They can hardly be blamed. As technology progresses, it becomes harder to fix by yourself.

    Kids and teens can't fix anything they use, whereas I could for a lot of things when I was young.

    Even people with skills have trouble. A competent mechanic can't deal with cars he doesn't have the diagnostic tools for for example.


  • #35
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    friendlyfun wrote: »
    What's that got to do with their youth? Sounds more like lack of experience or training.

    I think that that is the point. If they had been more accustomed to physical activities such as making or mending things when they were younger, they would be more adapt at picking up the skills for their profession.

    I have seen a graduate engineer operate a set of pliers with two hands (one on each handle of the pliers) because he wasn't familiar with holding it in one hand.


  • #36
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They can hardly be blamed. As technology progresses, it becomes harder to fix by yourself.
    and it's made so it can't be fixed so easily. Makes more business sense to flog them a new one, or make it so difficult for the home DIY type to get parts, so they have to pay a premium to bring it to a dealer. Cars a very good example of this. It's happening across the board with many items. Not repairable/throwaway, add complication where it's not required, repairable but parts are only available(with extra charges) from the manufacturers/dealers. Win win for the tills.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #37
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think that that is the point. If they had been more accustomed to physical activities such as making or mending things when they were younger, they would be more adapt at picking up the skills for their profession.

    I have seen a graduate engineer operate a set of pliers with two hands (one on each handle of the pliers) because he wasn't familiar with holding it in one hand.

    I agree. The previous generation really did a poor job of bringing up the new. Truly the worst


  • #38
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    NSAman wrote: »
    Seriously?????????

    Worst I have heard is a friend who is intelligent, wealthy and hard working who calls in an electrician to change a light bulb... now I am not talking something difficult, just a light bulb....
    looksee wrote: »
    I saw an article recently where a surgeon was bemoaning the fact that student doctors had no dexterity skills and it was very difficult to teach them to stitch up a wound as they had no experience of using needles/tools.

    My aunt is a retired nurse, her daughter a doctor 3 yrs older than me. Neither of them knew to check the fuseboard to see if a trip had switched when the power went out in one part of the house. I also change all the lightbulbs, had to show her how to use her new oven, change a plug, set up the new wifi, go into the attic if anything is needed, set the oil timer, buy briquettes and store them in the shed, tell her the tires on her car are balder than a coot & get them changed asap.....
    All of the above was in the last month or so, probably loads more over the years i just do for them without thinking now :pac:


  • #39
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,473 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    They can hardly be blamed. As technology progresses, it becomes harder to fix by yourself.
    and it's made so it can't be fixed so easily. Makes more business sense to flog them a new one, or make it so difficult for the home DIY type to get parts, so they have to pay a premium to bring it to a dealer. Cars a very good example of this. It's happening across the board with many items. Not repairable/throwaway, add complication where it's not required, repairable but parts are only available(with extra charges) from the manufacturers/dealers. Win win for the tills.
    Moulded plugs that you can't open to change the fuse. Has to be chucked and a new lead with plug ordered and paid for.


  • #40
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    I agree. The previous generation really did a poor job of bringing up the new. Truly the worst

    I'm not sure if it is simply the blame of the previous generation. Years ago, toys such as model kits were popular. These thought dexterity and the use of basic tools. More recently, computer games consoles are probably the dominant toy. They imbue less physical or mind skills than the earlier pastimes in my view.


  • #41
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    I actually think practical skills are making a serious comeback thanks to the Internet.
    Youtube, Wikihow, Forum sites like this are all fantastic resources that people 20 years ago did not have.


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    and it's made so it can't be fixed so easily. Makes more business sense to flog them a new one, or make it so difficult for the home DIY type to get parts, so they have to pay a premium to bring it to a dealer. Cars a very good example of this. It's happening across the board with many items. Not repairable/throwaway, add complication where it's not required, repairable but parts are only available(with extra charges) from the manufacturers/dealers. Win win for the tills.

    And with everything being designed to fail after a few years anyways, the parts and expertise don't really exist anywhere in a community, nor the motivation to fix something you'll be replacing anyway.

    There are certain old models of general household items in high demand by people who are into the "buy it for life" thing. I'd be one of them if I bought a place.


    Oh, and check John Deere and what they do. Farmers can't repair their own tractors. What sort of practical education is that for a farmer's son..


  • #43
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,473 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    NSAman wrote: »
    Seriously?????????

    Worst I have heard is a friend who is intelligent, wealthy and hard working who calls in an electrician to change a light bulb... now I am not talking something difficult, just a light bulb....
    looksee wrote: »
    I saw an article recently where a surgeon was bemoaning the fact that student doctors had no dexterity skills and it was very difficult to teach them to stitch up a wound as they had no experience of using needles/tools.

    My aunt is a retired nurse, her daughter a doctor 3 yrs older than me. Neither of them knew to check the fuseboard to see if a trip had switched when the power went out in one part of the house. I also change all the lightbulbs, had to show her how to use her new oven, change a plug, set up the new wifi, go into the attic if anything is needed, set the oil timer, buy briquettes and store them in the shed, put up the Christmas tree/lights.....
    All of the above was in the last month or so, probably loads more over the years i just do for them without thinking now :pac:
    I really don't want to be treated by a dr. who can't read an instruction manual/ look up youtube to work out how to operate a new appliance. I'm not even joking. That is shocking stuff .


  • #44
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I really don't want to be treated by a dr. who can't read an instruction manual/ look up youtube to work out how to operate a new appliance. I'm not even joking. That is shocking stuff .

    She's actually quite smart, just sees things like that as beneath her or a mans job. Not sure if that makes her better or worse. I don't get on with her anyway :pac:


  • #45
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    My granny RIP (who was in her mid 80s) used to constantly have to sort things out for the couple in their 20s next-door. She was big into DIY and gardening and would take on any project.

    The neighbor was trying to start a lawnmower with a damp spark plug which she sorted out in 2 mins.

    He also didn't know how to wire a plug, so she had to teach him to do that.

    And she vented all their radiators for them.

    She had him doing all sorts of stuff almost like he was her apprentice for a while.


  • #46
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it is simply the blame of the previous generation. Years ago, toys such as model kits were popular. These thought dexterity and the use of basic tools. More recently, computer games consoles are probably the dominant toy. They imbue less physical or mind skills than the earlier pastimes in my view.

    Loads have gained skills from this generation that they would never have learned previously. I've got dyspraxia so coordination is awful. So tbh, I'm never gonna be amazing at actual craftsmanship. But I can do electronics, play with arduinos and considering building a drone next year. (all the parts will be 3d printed) I can also make beer from scratch. The accessibility of information is so huge at this point that self teaching is something that's becoming increasingly more common.

    Can also think of people in their forties that wouldn't know how to switch out a fuse or have many of the skills that their generation is expected to have.


  • #47
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,762 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Moulded plugs that you can't open to change the fuse. Has to be chucked and a new lead with plug ordered and paid for.

    Never seen one that you can get to the fuse. I even think that its a requirement that the fuse can be changed.

    It may not be obvious on a lot of new 13 Amp molded plugtops but there is normally a slot you can stick a screwdriver into to lever out the fuse cover and fuse.


  • #48
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,418 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    It surprises me some of the things that people are surprised at younger people not being able to do. If you grew up with central heating then why in god's name would you even need to know how to light a fire? Or when would you even get the opportunity to do so? Similarly with ties. I used to wear a tie to work every day until maybe 15 years ago we changed the dress policy in work to smart casual. Since then I've only ever worn a tie at weddings and maybe the odd funeral. At this stage the majority of guys in the company probably last wore a tie when they came for their interview, so it's not something that they're going to need to know how to do on a daily basis. Times move on and some skills become less and less necessary over the years.


  • #49
    scarepanda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭scarepanda


    .


  • #50
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,473 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    my3cents wrote: »
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Moulded plugs that you can't open to change the fuse. Has to be chucked and a new lead with plug ordered and paid for.

    Never seen one that you can get to the fuse. I even thin that its a requirement that the fuse can be changed.

    It may not be obvious on a lot of new 13 Amp molded plugtops but there is normally a slot you can stick a screwdriver into to lever out the fuse cover and fuse.
    OK, thanks, I'm gonna check that one out on the Christmas tree lights plug.

    A few months ago had the issue with a medical device my dad uses. I actually phoned the manufacturers asking how to open the plug and I was told I couldn't and would have to order a replacement.


  • #51
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    OK, thanks, I'm gonna check that one out on the Christmas tree lights plug.

    A few months ago had the issue with a medical device my dad uses. I actually phoned the manufacturers asking how to open the plug and I was told I couldn't and would have to order a replacement.

    Many leads have fully moulded plugs which cannot be opened but as pointed out, the fuse should still be replaceable.
    the manufacturer may have misunderstood and thought that the lead was damaged/malfunctioning outside of the fuse issue.


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  • #52
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,473 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    I really don't want to be treated by a dr. who can't read an instruction manual/ look up youtube to work out how to operate a new appliance. I'm not even joking. That is shocking stuff .

    She's actually quite smart, just sees things like that as beneath her or a mans job. Not sure if that makes her better or worse. I don't get on with her anyway :pac:
    I would be letting her get on with it if she's like that.


  • #53
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I'm not sure if it is simply the blame of the previous generation. Years ago, toys such as model kits were popular. These thought dexterity and the use of basic tools. More recently, computer games consoles are probably the dominant toy. They imbue less physical or mind skills than the earlier pastimes in my view.

    Whoa. So the previous generation are saints who cant be blamed for raising the new one incorrectly?


  • #54
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,473 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Sardonicat wrote: »
    OK, thanks, I'm gonna check that one out on the Christmas tree lights plug.

    A few months ago had the issue with a medical device my dad uses. I actually phoned the manufacturers asking how to open the plug and I was told I couldn't and would have to order a replacement.

    Many leads have fully moulded plugs which cannot be opened but as pointed out, the fuse should still be replaceable.
    the manufacturer may have misunderstood and thought that the lead was damaged/malfunctioning outside of the fuse issue.
    Nope, I told them I wanted to check the fuse. That was the purpose of the call. It being an expensive medical appliance I didn't want to go in all gung ho with a screw driver and my rubbish coordination without checking out if it was feaseable first .


  • #55
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Whoa. So the previous generation are saints who cant be blamed for raising the new one incorrectly?

    No idea where you are going with this unless you are trying to provoke some on thread argument between different generations.


  • #56
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Tell me how wrote: »
    No idea where you are going with this unless you are trying to provoke some on thread argument between different generations.

    No im just wondering why the new generation is to blame when, as you say, theyve been improperly cared for and not taught by the last.

    I mean from what you’re saying the previous generation is to blame


  • #57
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    No im just wondering why the new generation is to blame when, as you say, theyve been improperly cared for and not taught by the last.

    I mean from what you’re saying the previous generation is to blame

    I'm not blaming any generation. I said practices were different in different generations which led to skills being developed more than subsequently was/is the case.


  • #58
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I'm not blaming any generation. I said practices were different in different generations which led to skills being developed more than subsequently was/is the case.

    Ah. So neither generation is worse. Just different?


  • #59
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Ah. So neither generation is worse. Just different?

    Yes.


  • #60
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Growing up, my Dad was a hugely practical man. I never remember any job at home requiring the services of a tradesman. He added plug sockets around the house, fixed any heating/plumbing related problems, built a concrete block garage and wired it himself, put new engines/gearboxes in cars in said garage, the list is endless. He served his time as a mechanic but the rest was self taught.

    I didnt exactly inherit the practicality gene, never had a natural aptitude for it, but obviously from seeing and working on so many jobs with him over the years a lot of it rubs off. It's only when you go out in the world and get asked to do a few small jobs for relatives and friends that you realize in today's day n' age, you are practically Mcguyver if you can fit a washing machine or put a set of brake pads on a car!


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  • #61
    Odelay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭Odelay


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Whoa. So the previous generation are saints who cant be blamed for raising the new one incorrectly?

    I see what you’re at.


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