Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 02:49AM

gandalf wrote: »

Do you believe McGann should be allowed to keep his farm given his debt history and non payment of taxes?

Is this the same gandalf that has asked the same question multiple times on this thread? Considering you are a wizard you'Re not very clever aRe you?

mynamejeff · 23-12-2018 02:51AM

simongurnick wrote: »

I'm not fat!

or clever it seems

23-12-2018 02:52AM

simongurnick wrote: »

Is this the same gandalf that has asked the same question multiple times on this thread? Considering you are a wizard you'Re not very clever aRe you?

Play the ball and not the man. There's no need to be rude.

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 02:56AM

mynamejeff wrote: »

or clever it

Oh shucks

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 02:57AM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Play the ball and not the man. There's no need to be rude.

Fair enough. I can appreciate that...but when one person has been banging the same drum all week...something has to be mentioned

23-12-2018 03:01AM

simongurnick wrote: »

Fair enough. I can appreciate that...but when one person has been banging the same drum all week...something has to be mentioned

It's a fair question. The farmer who got evicted engaged in a massive vat fraud and took the blatant piss with his mortgage.

I have zero sympathy.

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 03:06AM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

It's a fair question. The farmer who got evicted engaged in a massive vat fraud and took the blatant piss with his mortgage.

I have zero sympathy.

The question has been asked many many times. Surely the is some thread etiquette about avoiding groundhog day situations?

23-12-2018 03:51AM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

It's a fair question. The farmer who got evicted engaged in a massive vat fraud and took the blatant piss with his mortgage.

I have zero sympathy.

There probably should be zero support for him considering the circumstances. That is why they picked him to make a show of

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/what-the-roscommon-eviction-is-really-about-893666.html

29,000 homeowners not paying their mortgage, no big deal?

Well, let’s ignore the spin and the headlines again, and once more rely on the Central Bank of Ireland for some clarity here.

It is estimated that half of those 29,000 will be repossessed. So all that furore up in Roscommon, all the moving parts of that story, the schoolboy debating in the Dáil, the row over who and who isn’t explicitly condemning violence, is, you could say, perhaps a distraction from the real issue here.

This isn’t just about one eviction in Roscommon, this is about another 15,000 evictions coming down the line.

as mentioned above, this is groundhog day stuff

And for the earlier questions about deposits and bank failures. Cyprus is the template:

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100582622

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eurozone-cyprus-banks/cyprus-popular-board-thought-eu-would-not-let-it-fail-idUSBRE92O0R820130325

So much so that several countries changed legislation

When a Cyprus bank went bust in 2013, the Government SEIZED 40% of ALL SAVINGS DEPOSITS OVER €100,000.

Europes new model is also a Bail in model:

In the last 24 months, Canada, Cyprus, New Zealand, the US, the UK, and now Germany have all implemented legislation that would allow them to first FREEZE and then SEIZE bank assets during the next crisis

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-10/new-laws-allow-government-seize-savings-deposits-during-crisis

Australia has also changed legislation. This is because those countries are set up to have banking collapses next year. One Aussie bank lent out around 40% of their entire loan book as interest only. The average was in the 30s% across the entire banking sector - taxpayers will end up paying and the banks should be punished to prevent it occurring in the future. Remember 40 year mortgages in Ireland? Its the same bad money lending practices across western economies and nobody learned the lessons. GFC 2.0 coming your way and soon.

https://www.afr.com/real-estate/westpac-group-clampdown-on-property-investors-despite-apra-lifting-borrowing-cap-20180426-h0z916#ixzz5Do5vbeEo

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/04/westpac-tightens-investor-interest-mortgage-rules-yet/

https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/gold-silver-bullion-news/senate-passes-e2-80-98bail-in-e2-80-99-law-e2-80-93-how-safe-is-your-cash-now-/tabid/88/a/1722/default.aspx

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 04:13AM

Half of the 29k will be repossessed? Why did they lend to them at all? Every bank has procedures for credit approvals have they learned anything?

23-12-2018 04:20AM

simongurnick wrote: »

Half of the 29k will be repossessed? Why did they lend to them at all? Every bank has procedures for credit approvals have they learned anything?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/loans-in-default-at-kbc-to-peak-at-14-154415.html

There is €9.7bn outstanding on residential mortgages and €3.3bn on buy-to-let. On real estate investment loans, there are 16% non-performing. This rises to almost 50% for real estate development loans.

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 04:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/loans-in-default-at-kbc-to-peak-at-14-154415.html

There is €9.7bn outstanding on residential mortgages and €3.3bn on buy-to-let. On real estate investment loans, there are 16% non-performing. This rises to almost 50% for real estate development loans.

Cluster fcuk

23-12-2018 04:35AM

Occured to anyone that it should be stuck to the stupid Belgian bank to write significant write downs on their bad lending. Let the belgians bail them out again if they'd like. Ireland has bailed out enough banks. Why should we have them kick people out to be dumped onto our welfare bill? In my eyes that is a subsidy to poor lending and a psuedo bail out

simongurnick · 23-12-2018 04:37AM

Oh but the Irish couldn't upset the poor banks or our partners in Brussels. God forbid

PeadarCo · 23-12-2018 08:34AM

Deleted User wrote:

Occured to anyone that it should be stuck to the stupid Belgian bank to write significant write downs on their bad lending. Let the belgians bail them out again if they'd like. Ireland has bailed out enough banks. Why should we have them kick people out to be dumped onto our welfare bill? In my eyes that is a subsidy to poor lending and a psuedo bail out

They put the property down as security if they don't make an effort to pay its going to be repossessed. Chances are if they engaged they probably would have been offered something. However from all reports the people involved have a record of not paying debts to everyone not just banks.

Irish mortgage interest rates are some of the highest in the Eurozone in part thanks to people like this and others who want to essentially ban them(prevent any type of repossession). Even if a write down was given by the bank or banks in other situations it would be ordinary people who would end up paying the final bill. Interest rates would rise and mortgages would become very hard to get or impossible to get(the security placed would be worthless if it can't be reposseed). Foreign banks would be even more reluctant to enter the Irish mortgage market than they already are.

It would make house ownership the preserve of the super rich and those that could afford to buy one without a mortgage. Given we have a housing crisis it would be a disaster.

gandalf · 23-12-2018 09:38AM

simongurnick wrote: »

Is this the same gandalf that has asked the same question multiple times on this thread? Considering you are a wizard you'Re not very clever aRe you?

I was asking the individual quoted on my post. If you can't figure that out then you're not "the sharpest tool in the shed" are you :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito · 23-12-2018 09:46AM

simongurnick wrote: »

The question has been asked many many times. Surely the is some thread etiquette about avoiding groundhog day situations?

Well if you answered it in one reply instead of using 4 to tell us how he keeps asking it so you can avoid answering it , he wouldnt have to keep asking.

Guy:Incognito · 23-12-2018 09:58AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Occured to anyone that it should be stuck to the stupid Belgian bank to write significant write downs on their bad lending. Let the belgians bail them out again if they'd like. Ireland has bailed out enough banks. Why should we have them kick people out to be dumped onto our welfare bill? In my eyes that is a subsidy to poor lending and a psuedo bail out

How is loaning someone money that has assets to cover the loan if they don't pay bad lending? Seems like normal lending to me. They didn't pay, bank takes asset, no bail out needed.

JCJCJC · 23-12-2018 10:03AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How is loaning someone money that has assets to cover the loan if they don't pay bad lending? Seems like normal lending to me. They didn't pay, bank takes asset, no bail out needed.

Sub-prime lending... asset of dubious value, borrower of dubious repayment capacity, age, uncertain income, poor history etc. it happens.

Guy:Incognito · 23-12-2018 10:12AM

JCJCJC wrote: »

Sub-prime lending... asset of dubious value, borrower of dubious repayment capacity, age, uncertain income, poor history etc. it happens.

What was the value of the loan and the value of the property used as security?

Age ? How old was he in 2004?

Uncertain income? Should no farmers be given loans so?

aido79 · 23-12-2018 10:15AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Sorry if I gave the impression that they would have rolled over peacefully for people in RoI registered vans. I don't think they would.

Somehow though, I feel the words in the video 'British bastard, ye were ran once before and ye'll be ran again' indicate a specific point of contention.

Again, I totally agree with you.

I'm just saying that the reaction to 'the modern culture of Ireland', was a bit more informed by historical grievance.

In other words, I do not believe that local people are unaware of McGann's business methods. And yet...

There seems to be 2 angles in this thread. You and the other SF supporters only seem concerned that the eviction was carried out by a company from Northern Ireland with at least one of the employees calling himself British.
The rest of us are more concerned about the fact that the owner of the farm and house didn't like paying his debts and had years to vacate the property before it got to this stage.
Personally I couldn't care less if the company employed ex ISIS guys to carry out the eviction. Evictions are a necessary part of the process in cases like this.

NIMAN · 23-12-2018 10:19AM

aido79 wrote: »

There seems to be 2 angles in this thread. You and the other SF supporters only seem concerned that the eviction was carried out by a company from Northern Ireland with at least one of the employees calling himself British.
The rest of us are more concerned about the fact that the owner of the farm and house didn't like paying his debts and had years to vacate the property before it got to this stage.
Personally I couldn't care less if the company employed ex ISIS guys to carry out the eviction. Evictions are a necessary part of the process in cases like this.

Basically populists v realists.

This country has an awful lot of the former, especially in political circles.

JCJCJC · 23-12-2018 10:26AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What was the value of the loan and the value of the property used as security?

Age ? How old was he in 2004?

Uncertain income? Should no farmers be given loans so?

You asked a general question, I gave you a general answer.

Guy:Incognito · 23-12-2018 10:32AM

JCJCJC wrote: »

You asked a general question, I gave you a general answer.

Well now theres specific questions. You're suggesting it's a sub prime loan.

The thread is about a specific case.

JCJCJC · 23-12-2018 10:46AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well now theres specific questions. You're suggesting it's a sub prime loan.

The thread is about a specific case.

I’m suggesting nothing. I answered your direct question in the same terms as you put it.
This thread has been discursive, putting it mildly.
I don’t know anything about the specifics of the Roscommon farmers’s loan application, so there’s no point asking me about it.

realitykeeper · 23-12-2018 10:47AM

P_1 wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=521998308280272&id=433698377110266

Context. KBC are trying to evict people from a property in Strokestown. On Tuesday a gang of people from north of the border who identify as British moved in on the property, assaulting people ( there are videos floating about online about this). Last night a large group of people seemingly took the property back, 2 dogs are dead and several northern registered vans have been burnt out.

Several questions. Main one is what on earth were KBC thinking going down this road? Have they no idea of the historical context of doing this? Second question is how this is going to be framed by the national media.

What if the bank in question happened to be one of the bailed out banks. The taxpayer has to take the loss of these types of default while the defaulters get to go on living in the bank`s property. And, what about all the homeless people who (unlike the defaulters) are completely blameless, why not kick out the defaulters and let a poor homeless couple with kids move into a nice warm home this Christmas? They could stay in it until the bank finds a buyer.

justshane · 23-12-2018 10:54AM

Apparently big numbers expected at the protest today. Gaurds all over Strokestown already. Really hope that it's not used as an excuse for trouble and if people go it's with the intent of making a point and not just to stir the pot and cause trouble.

Guy:Incognito · 23-12-2018 11:15AM

JCJCJC wrote: »

I’m suggesting nothing. I answered your direct question in the same terms as you put it.
This thread has been discursive, putting it mildly.
I don’t know anything about the specifics of the Roscommon farmers’s loan application, so there’s no point asking me about it.

So theres no issues with any of the procedure as far as your concerned. That's grand. Good to know you agree with most of us who see the guy for what he is.

Guy:Incognito · 23-12-2018 11:16AM

justshane wrote: »

Apparently big numbers expected at the protest today. Gaurds all over Strokestown already. Really hope that it's not used as an excuse for trouble and if people go it's with the intent of making a point and not just to stir the pot and cause trouble.

Making a point about what? That the guy should pay his loans..........and taxes............and Bills.............?

JCJCJC · 23-12-2018 11:25AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So theres no issues with any of the procedure as far as your concerned. That's grand. Good to know you agree with most of us who see the guy for what he is.

You insist on mid-interpreting my replies. I’m sorry I bothered my ass answering your question.
I agree with those who think that loans should be repaid, and if not, defaulters face the consequences, per the law of the land.

23-12-2018 11:39AM

aido79 wrote: »

Personally I couldn't care less if the company employed ex ISIS guys to carry out the eviction.

wow, ex isis, really? Is this why we are bringing in refugees from war zones? To carry out the 15,000 evictions
If that was the truth there would be civil war but no its not whats really going to happen. What did just happen was you exposed yourself to be an extremist of a sort.

Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461