N25 - Carrigtwohill to Midleton [route options published]

Gunner3629 · 14-12-2018 11:07pm

highwaymaniac wrote: »

Can a 2+2 be retrofitted to the youghal bypass?? Doesn't look like at the bridges??

Still think consideration should be given to fermoy-dungarvan instead of N25 upgrades to cater for commuter traffic, just have different tiwns expanding. Especially given the constraint of the youghal blackwater bridge. No point having dual carriageway all the way to youghal and then have that horrific alignment for a few kms including accident blackspot at grange crossroads.

I can see some advantages to that idea for commuters in Waterford, as they'd have the M8 from Fermoy onwards, but that wouldn't help anyone in East Cork and that is where most of the N25 commuter traffic to Cork originates - Youghal, Killeagh, Castlemarytr, Ballycotton, Ballymacoda, etc.

Its similar to the argument with the Cork-Limerick road. Do you make a motorway from Cork to Limerick via Mallow or use the existing M8 road as a partial route to Limerick and create a motorway from Mitchelstown to Limerick via Hospital. The latter being more cost effective but wouldn't serve the North Cork traveller quite so well.

highwaymaniac · 14-12-2018 11:19pm

Gunner3629 wrote: »

I can see some advantages to that idea for commuters in Waterford, as they'd have the M8 from Fermoy onwards, but that wouldn't help anyone in East Cork and that is where most of the N25 commuter traffic originates - Youghal, Killeagh, Castlemarytr, Ballycotton, Ballymacoda, etc.

Its similar to the argument with the Cork-Limerick road. Do you make a motorway from Cork to Limerick via Mallow or use the existing M8 road as a partial route to Limerick and create a motorway from Mitchelstown to Limerick via Hospital. The latter being more cost effective but wouldn't serve the North Cork traveller quite so well.

I suppose that's the crux of it, the national road network is supposed to be for strategic traffic, the problem is that strategic traffic numbers aren't high enough to get the cost benefit ratio high enough. The main benefits derive from journey time savings in the Cost benefit assessment. Hence majority of all schemes rely on commuter traffic to make economic sense, hence piecemeal road upgrades being built to cater predominantly for commuter traffic.

The N25 upgrades if progressed should be heavily funded by development contributions.

Chris_5339762 · 14-12-2018 11:54pm

Youghal was prioritised back in the day because it was a ridiculous bottleneck, far worse than Castlemartyr or Killeagh currently is. Also, with the one way routes and the city gate ( https://goo.gl/maps/uvMWYezG8nA2 ) , anything larger than a small lorry going to Rosslare for the ferry, could barely fit through it. Once the hairpin bends at The Ring in Dungarvan got done back in the late 80s, this became suddenly a major issue and was fixed quick-smart.

Castlemartyr and Killeagh are at least wide enough, even though they cause dreadful tailbacks thesedays.

Bacchus · 17-12-2018 10:36am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Castlemartyr and Killeagh are at least wide enough, even though they cause dreadful tailbacks thesedays.

I don't know about Kileagh but it'll be interesting to see once the bridge is redone how the traffic flow through the village will be. With the new road markings gone down last week there seems to be an effort to stop local traffic trying to turn off into their estates from holding up a queue of traffic. It's a small measure but I've seen it plenty of times where all it takes is a couple of cars trying to get across traffic to hold up the whole show. If they can improve the management of cars across the bridge (particularly those turning right for Ladysbridge/Garryvoe)even just a little bit it could help flow too.

Obviously I don't think the above will solve the issue of traffic bottlenecks in Castlemartyr, but they might just ease it a little.

hans aus dtschl · 17-12-2018 12:53pm

highwaymaniac wrote: »

None of those schemes will be effective without a north ring road should only be 3 junctions on that N22, M20, M8. I hope the south ring is never widened to three lanes would be a very bad investment like the M50 widening.

If there is any real move to widen the N40 then proper analysis should first be performed as to why there's such heavy personal car usage on that corridor.
IMO big investment should go into sustainable transport as a priority. The housing and employment hubs dotted around the outskirts of the city should be integrated with each other and the city.

On that note any Carrigtwohill-Midleton upgrade needs to be fully focused not on creating an incentive for more cars (higher throughput), but rather on safety. Which basically means giving pedestrians/cyclists/homeowners a proper high-quality alternative route.
Given the quality of cycle/pedestrian infrastructure in the East Cork area to date, I'm less than optimistic.

AugustusMinimus · 17-12-2018 1:30pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

If there is any real move to widen the N40 then proper analysis should first be performed as to why there's such heavy personal car usage on that corridor.
IMO big investment should go into sustainable transport as a priority. The housing and employment hubs dotted around the outskirts of the city should be integrated with each other and the city.

On that note any Carrigtwohill-Midleton upgrade needs to be fully focused not on creating an incentive for more cars (higher throughput), but rather on safety. Which basically means giving pedestrians/cyclists/homeowners a proper high-quality alternative route.
Given the quality of cycle/pedestrian infrastructure in the East Cork area to date, I'm less than optimistic.

The N25 upgrade is primarily safety and quality of life driven. All local access removed with new access roads at the side.

Will improve things for those living on this road along with providing new roads for pedestrians and cyclists.

marno21 · 17-12-2018 1:39pm

This will be one of those schemes where 95% of people driving on the N25 will be complaining about "pointless roadworks".

The objective here is to bring the N25 along this stretch up to the required standard. At the minute, it's very poor in comparison to the N25 west of Carrigtwohill with the accesses, varying widths, alignment deficiencies etc.

It's an awful pity they didn't include it as part of an M25 Youghal-Carrigtwohill scheme as for 99% of people, this upgrade will be meaniningless to them but at the same time David Stanton can go around rabbiting on about how the N25 is getting investment and the Government are looking after the area.

hans aus dtschl · 17-12-2018 1:39pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The N25 upgrade is primarily safety and quality of life driven. All local access removed with new access roads at the side.

Will improve things for those living on this road along with providing new roads for pedestrians and cyclists.

Yes and I'm 100% in favour of this. Unfortunately I'll be quite (pleasantly!) surprised if a high quality design is provided.

What I'm fully expecting is an inappropriate attempt to re-purpose and re-use the Waterrock/BallyRichard and/or Ballintubber roads, with some kind of line-painting amounting to a 3-way conflict with simultaneous "cyclist priority", "pedestrian priority" and "motorists please slow down" and effectively no change other than to remove the current desire route for some users.

marno21 · 17-12-2018 1:41pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yes and I'm 100% in favour of this. Unfortunately I'll be quite (pleasantly!) surprised if a high quality design is provided.

What I'm fully expecting is an inappropriate attempt to re-purpose and re-use the Waterrock/BallyRichard and/or Ballintubber roads, with some kind of line-painting amounting to a 3-way conflict with simultaneous "cyclist priority", "pedestrian priority" and "motorists please slow down" and effectively no change other than to remove the current desire route for some users.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, and you can give out to me after if I'm wrong.

The recent N86 upgrade in Kerry, and the N63 upgrade in Galway have seen segregated pedestrian/cycling facilities provided where the existing road has been upgraded and no alternative exists. Given that there's one road between Carrrigtwohill and Midleton there's a good chance of multi modal facilities being integrated here.

FGR · 18-12-2018 8:09pm

Bacchus wrote: »

I don't know about Kileagh but it'll be interesting to see once the bridge is redone how the traffic flow through the village will be.

The highlighted bit intrigues me. Are they going to do something about the bridge or is it just remarking the road ?

Bacchus · 19-12-2018 10:33am

FGR wrote: »

The highlighted bit intrigues me. Are they going to do something about the bridge or is it just remarking the road ?

Two new footbridges (one on either side) for pedestrians. Which means they will be (or at least should be) removing the existing footpath and widen the road there. This work is due to start in February and finish in May (so hopefully by Christmas 2019

)

In an ideal world, I'd love if they developed the abandoned land on the junction to include a car park that would service that end of the village, and then remove a lot of the on-street parking in the village... maybe down as far as Centra to allow for a longer filter lane for traffic turning right towards Garryvoe. Can't see that ever happening though.

FGR · 19-12-2018 2:15pm

Bacchus wrote: »

Two new footbridges (one on either side) for pedestrians. Which means they will be (or at least should be) removing the existing footpath and widen the road there. This work is due to start in February and finish in May (so hopefully by Christmas 2019 )

In an ideal world, I'd love if they developed the abandoned land on the junction to include a car park that would service that end of the village, and then remove a lot of the on-street parking in the village... maybe down as far as Centra to allow for a longer filter lane for traffic turning right towards Garryvoe. Can't see that ever happening though.

One can only dream! :pac:

marno21 · 15-03-2019 9:05pm

TII saying 2027 for this scheme. Not sure if that's start or finish.

Cork County Council regard this project as "critical".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-county-councillors-approve-plans-for-new-town-development-involving-2500-houses-911266.html

Chris_5339762 · 15-03-2019 10:19pm

Ross Palmer, the county council's senior planner, is on record as saying the connecting road will be designed in a way to discourage speeding.

“It’s got numerous signalised junctions, numerous bends along it that will reduce speed, and it will also include raised (speed ramp) tables,” he said.

Did we suddenly teleport Midleton to the middle of the UK because this is the kind of constrained horror of a road they keep building there.

highwaymaniac · 15-03-2019 11:46pm

marno21 wrote: »

TII saying 2027 for this scheme. Not sure if that's start or finish.

Cork County Council regard this project as "critical".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-county-councillors-approve-plans-for-new-town-development-involving-2500-houses-911266.html

Just doesn't make sense to me, does the rail station have to be built first at least? How long until calls for N25 to be widened to 3 lanes...?

marno21 · 16-03-2019 1:00am

highwaymaniac wrote: »

Just doesn't make sense to me, does the rail station have to be built first at least? How long until calls for N25 to be widened to 3 lanes...?

There is LIHAF funding to open up the land for development, which will consist of road upgrades. Surprise surprise: "The proposal included a train station but this element was not considered for funding under LIHAF"

highwaymaniac · 16-03-2019 7:43pm

marno21 wrote: »

There is LIHAF funding to open up the land for development, which will consist of road upgrades. Surprise surprise: "The proposal included a train station but this element was not considered for funding under LIHAF"

Ha not surprised one bit! We might see 3 lanes cork-midleton before we see dual midelton-youghal. I just think this scheme will actually end up doing more harm than good long term for the overall reliability of the road network.

hans aus dtschl · 19-03-2019 10:13am

highwaymaniac wrote: »

Ha not surprised one bit! We might see 3 lanes cork-midleton before we see dual midelton-youghal. I just think this scheme will actually end up doing more harm than good long term for the overall reliability of the road network.

Yeah for me it just went from "good idea" to "terrible idea" in one simple move.

Their entire justification for the development was that it wouldn't increase traffic and queuing on the N25 because they were going to put all their effort into sustainable transport from the outset. Now they're just going to carry on with no train link, no bus link and a woefully shoddy cycle/pedestrian design.

Textbook.

Does anyone know if this gets subsequently reviewed by anyone like ABP?

highwaymaniac · 19-03-2019 10:59pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Yeah for me it just went from "good idea" to "terrible idea" in one simple move.

Their entire justification for the development was that it wouldn't increase traffic and queuing on the N25 because they were going to put all their effort into sustainable transport from the outset. Now they're just going to carry on with no train link, no bus link and a woefully shoddy cycle/pedestrian design.

Textbook.

Does anyone know if this gets subsequently reviewed by anyone like ABP?

Well said, yes that is the good thing it will have to go to ABP for approval.

hans aus dtschl · 20-03-2019 9:13am

highwaymaniac wrote: »

Well said, yes that is the good thing it will have to go to ABP for approval.

Well thank god for that. It shouldn't pass even a cursory oversight in its current form, IMO: the original documentation made heavy reference to the high quality of sustainable travel being provided and emphasized that the (already occurring) N25 queues wouldn't occur according their Powscar analysis.

annfield1978 · 07-08-2019 10:30pm

This has come out to Tender - Phase 1 to 4

hans aus dtschl · 08-08-2019 8:13am

I shouldn't be surprised this got the go-ahead in it's current form, but I still am.

The council will probably call for upgrade of the N25 to 3 lanes after they've put a massive number of unsustainable houses into the Midleton west exit.

Gunner3629 · 08-08-2019 8:49am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I shouldn't be surprised this got the go-ahead in it's current form, but I still am.

The council will probably call for upgrade of the N25 to 3 lanes after they've put a massive number of unsustainable houses into the Midleton west exit.

The JLT needs priority over any of this but yes. Its welcome.

annfield1978 · 28-08-2019 1:58pm

Tender for this has come out for Phases 1 to 4

marno21 · 20-01-2020 7:35pm

SWECO appointed for Phases 1-4

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Sign-off-for-major-road-upgrade-in-Cork--ac3495bd-2209-4585-8b05-6ebc2e722159-ds

Cork Trucker · 20-01-2020 7:43pm

This is one project i'm not too upto date on, having read the article i see it has been handed over to a contractor, when is the kick off?

highwaymaniac · 20-01-2020 8:20pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

This is one project i'm not too upto date on, having read the article i see it has been handed over to a contractor, when is the kick off?

That's the design fees I'm afraid! It's a post 2027 scheme for construction per the NDP.

Cork Trucker · 20-01-2020 8:22pm

highwaymaniac wrote: »

That's the design fees I'm afraid! It's a post 2027 scheme for construction per the NDP.

Ah ffs..................

marno21 · 20-01-2020 8:40pm

wrote:

I'd throw any "NDP" timelines out the window now, given that the NDP is a Fine Gael political document only.

As it stands, they plan to go to ABP in mid 2022. Construction could start in late 2024 given that this is a minor scheme.

Interestingly, the article suggests a 7km scheme. The previous scheme was 5km from Carrigtwohill East to the Midleton West junction (just by Abernethy's). It's a further 2km on to the Lakeview Roundabout, but I'm not sure what work is needed east of the Midleton West junction other than potentially standardising the road width as the road is already grade separated.

Chris_5339762 · 20-01-2020 9:33pm

Hopefully they'll relay it, but without extremely major work (for the benefit) the bridges over the river/estuary wouldn't be widened. They aren't wide enough for a hard shoulder.

Maybe they'll get through Phase 1 - 4 and decide it doesn't need any more than a lick of tar, which makes sense. Until Midleton - Youghal gets done (ha) when hopefully they'll see sense and grade seperate Lakeview.

Gunner3629 · 20-01-2020 9:33pm

marno21 wrote: »

I'd throw any "NDP" timelines out the window now, given that the NDP is a Fine Gael political document only.

As it stands, they plan to go to ABP in mid 2022. Construction could start in late 2024 given that this is a minor scheme.

Interestingly, the article suggests a 7km scheme. The previous scheme was 5km from Carrigtwohill East to the Midleton West junction (just by Abernethy's). It's a further 2km on to the Lakeview Roundabout, but I'm not sure what work is needed east of the Midleton West junction other than potentially standardising the road width as the road is already grade separated.

Whats the benefit of this other than providing official ingress and egress junctions for all vehicles?

Can we by-pass Castlemartyr instead?

marno21 · 20-01-2020 9:36pm

wrote:

That's exactly it. Also providing the grade separated junction for access to the Amgen site/possibly Water Rock and sealing the median.

It would be sinful for them to complete this upgrade and not design it to 120km/h motorway standards by improving some of the curves and sightlines if it's a €70m upgrade.

Gunner3629 · 20-01-2020 9:59pm

marno21 wrote: »

That's exactly it. Also providing the grade separated junction for access to the Amgen site/possibly Water Rock and sealing the median.

It would be sinful for them to complete this upgrade and not design it to 120km/h motorway standards by improving some of the curves and sightlines if it's a €70m upgrade.

I guess its not the most costly or complex of projects.

Definitely Motorway standard, can't cost much more.

Limerick74 · 20-01-2020 10:14pm

How is the €70m project cost being quoted when they haven’t started phase 1 yet?

hans aus dtschl · 21-01-2020 11:58am

You guys are all possibly forgetting a few minor sticky details: there are houses directly on this stretch of road and the alternative routes are quite poor at present.
What would the gain from this project be? The majority of crashes seem to happen on the HQDC standard section between Little Island and Carrigtohill, where an M status could more or less be put in place overnight. So this seems like a terrible use of public money to me. It's the county council trying to encourage car-dependent sprawl just outside the city. Again. Next step will probably be some crappy car-dependent outlet mall on the Amgen site.

I drive this road a hell of a lot and I can think of way way better uses of €70,000,000 even within the local area.

It's like we're stuck in the 19070's or something.

And for what it's worth, I agree that Lakeview roundabout and everything East of Midleton needs an upgrade. But west of Midleton? That's just the county trying to encourage sprawl again.

hans aus dtschl · 21-01-2020 12:03pm

Gunner3629 wrote: »

Can we by-pass Castlemartyr instead?

Agreed.
If it's €70m, I'd rather it wasn't on roads.
But if it must be roads then Castlemartyr first please, then Killeagh.
West of Midleton isn't a problem other than that the County want to generate more money from the road.

Gunner3629 · 21-01-2020 12:17pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Agreed.
If it's €70m, I'd rather it wasn't on roads.
But if it must be roads then Castlemartyr first please, then Killeagh.
West of Midleton isn't a problem other than that the County want to generate more money from the road.

After the upgrades to Killeagh and Castlemartr villages - sewage, roads, lighting - in the last 18 months, there isn't a hope they'll get anything for a long time - but they should. Atleast they are getting a greenway, although that just irks the people feeling they should reinstate the rail link.

Ya West of Midleton is fine, its even 120km already from Carrigtwohill Juntion 4 to Dunkettle. Very little to do there.

marno21 · 22-01-2020 1:37am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

You guys are all possibly forgetting a few minor sticky details: there are houses directly on this stretch of road and the alternative routes are quite poor at present.
What would the gain from this project be? The majority of crashes seem to happen on the HQDC standard section between Little Island and Carrigtohill, where an M status could more or less be put in place overnight. So this seems like a terrible use of public money to me. It's the county council trying to encourage car-dependent sprawl just outside the city. Again. Next step will probably be some crappy car-dependent outlet mall on the Amgen site.

I drive this road a hell of a lot and I can think of way way better uses of €70,000,000 even within the local area.

It's like we're stuck in the 19070's or something.

And for what it's worth, I agree that Lakeview roundabout and everything East of Midleton needs an upgrade. But west of Midleton? That's just the county trying to encourage sprawl again.

I don't see this costing €70m. It's a safety upgrade and one of the few remaining terrible stretches of dual carriageway. A similar section in Donegal is being improved also (4km stretch of N13).

My guess is the houses will either be CPO'd and demolished or the dual carraigeway shifted in the other direction by a few metres and access roads provided. Full alternative routes between Barryscourt and Midleton West will be provided and all accesses onto the N25 closed.

If I were to guess the cost of this project I would say in the region of €30-40m, of which a certain proportion would have to be spent on resurfacing at some stage soon anyway.

hans aus dtschl · 22-01-2020 10:10am

marno21 wrote: »

I don't see this costing €70m. It's a safety upgrade and one of the few remaining terrible stretches of dual carriageway. A similar section in Donegal is being improved also (4km stretch of N13).

My guess is the houses will either be CPO'd and demolished or the dual carraigeway shifted in the other direction by a few metres and access roads provided. Full alternative routes between Barryscourt and Midleton West will be provided and all accesses onto the N25 closed.

If I were to guess the cost of this project I would say in the region of €30-40m, of which a certain proportion would have to be spent on resurfacing at some stage soon anyway.

That's fine, I totally agree with regularising the N25/M25 but again what's the primary purpose of this? There's loads of houses on the 100kmh single-carriageway stretch East of Midleton too.
This looks like another "to unlock development land" project from what I can see. And that's totally inexcusable to me, given it's on a rail line and they don't have the money for all of the sustainable transport projects around the place.

niloc1951 · 22-01-2020 4:15pm

I remember reading about using the eastbound carriageway as a local two way service road, and building a new carriageway adjacent to the existing westbound one which has no dwellings. That delivers a dedicated HQDC/Mway from Jct.4 to Jct.5 and a non Mway route between the the towns of Carrigtwohill and Midleton.

hans aus dtschl · 22-01-2020 10:46pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

I remember reading about using the eastbound carriageway as a local two way service road, and building a new carriageway adjacent to the existing westbound one which has no dwellings. That delivers a dedicated HQDC/Mway from Jct.4 to Jct.5 and a non Mway route between the the towns of Carrigtwohill and Midleton.

I like the idea but westbound has dwellings alright.

niloc1951 · 23-01-2020 7:17pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I like the idea but westbound has dwellings alright.

Had, they're all gone/vacant now. Possibly CPO'd.

hans aus dtschl · 24-01-2020 10:44am

niloc1951 wrote: »

Had, they're all gone/vacant now. Possibly CPO'd.

Was that very recent?
I knew someone living at Milebush until quite recently.

niloc1951 · 24-01-2020 2:27pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Was that very recent?
I knew someone living at Milebush until quite recently.

I stand corrected, there are houses there, perhaps developements and roads realignments in connection with the old Amgen site could facilitate their remaining.

hans aus dtschl · 24-01-2020 4:21pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

I stand corrected, there are houses there, perhaps developements and roads realignments in connection with the old Amgen site could facilitate their remaining.

It's only a few but I'm fairly confident they're still lived in. The problem is that at the brow of the hill there, there's a house directly across the road and more importantly a local MV/LV substation or set of transformers or something within the Amgen boundary. To my mind it's one of the toughest parts of the whole thing to resolve. There, and the turn off for Waterrock (Castle Rock Ave), there's no space there either.

And with all of that said, these are nowhere near as much an issue as what's East of Midleton. There's houses all over the 100kmh 1+1 East of Midleton and I'd much rather see roads money spent on those "in the interests of safety".

I'll say the same thing again, this project absolutely stinks of another Co Co attempt to "open up land for development". It's 7.5km to the city boundary as the crow flies: this is textbook Co Co "development" (car dependent sprawl).

marno21 · 25-01-2020 11:36pm

wrote:

It would appear alright that the primary objective from the local stakeholders is a GSJ opening up the Amgen site and Water Rock.

From a national perspective, TII would like to address seriously deficient stretches of dual carriageway (there are a few left, N18 Limerick-Shannon, N11 south of Bray, N25 here, N71 mess near Chetwynd).

However, I can see a lot of locals being peeved at this money being spent here as the benefits will not be felt for the vast majority of people who interact with this stretch of road.

I drove from Youghal to Cork yesterday at peak time and the primary issue along the route was the Lakeview Roundabout. It's simply not feasible to have those 4 roads meeting at an at grade roundabout, and it'll be far, far worse when Dunkettle is complete.

A sensible approach here would have seen an N25 Carrigtwohill-Youghal scheme, which would provide 30km of motorway between Barryscourt and east of Youghal, including upgrading the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Lakeview, grade separating Lakeview, bypassing Castlemartyr and Killeagh and a relatively cheap upgrade of the Youghal bypass. Would have been immensely useful to the area.

Chris_5339762 · 26-01-2020 10:05pm

I have the 2006 route option on my hard drive but unfortunately its too big to upload

marno21 · 27-01-2020 12:35am

wrote:

Could you printscreen or snipping tool it and pop it up then?

Would be great to have if you could.

niloc1951 · 27-01-2020 12:53am

marno21 wrote: »

It would appear alright that the primary objective from the local stakeholders is a GSJ opening up the Amgen site and Water Rock.

From a national perspective, TII would like to address seriously deficient stretches of dual carriageway (there are a few left, N18 Limerick-Shannon, N11 south of Bray, N25 here, N71 mess near Chetwynd).

However, I can see a lot of locals being peeved at this money being spent here as the benefits will not be felt for the vast majority of people who interact with this stretch of road.

I drove from Youghal to Cork yesterday at peak time and the primary issue along the route was the Lakeview Roundabout. It's simply not feasible to have those 4 roads meeting at an at grade roundabout, and it'll be far, far worse when Dunkettle is complete.

A sensible approach here would have seen an N25 Carrigtwohill-Youghal scheme, which would provide 30km of motorway between Barryscourt and east of Youghal, including upgrading the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Lakeview, grade separating Lakeview, bypassing Castlemartyr and Killeagh and a relatively cheap upgrade of the Youghal bypass. Would have been immensely useful to the area.

IIRC the final bit of that upgrade was to be a new bridge over the Blackwater about 400m south of the existing one, to create a straight run from the end of the Youghal Bypass to Kinsalebeg.

marno21 · 27-01-2020 1:17am

wrote:

I'd love to see how that route would work in practice. The Kinsalebeg side is quite a steep drop down to where the N25 is and a dual carriagewya on the Kinsalebeg side would require some serious blasting. There is just about enough room for a basic S2 there and it has to turn 90 degrees at the bridge.

My reading of all this is that TII's plan to build a new road between Cahir and Waterford means Rosslare/Waterford-Cork traffic will be sent via the M8 and N24 when that's done. God knows what the long term plan for the N25 is but the NDP makes for depressing reading for N25 users. Carrigtwohill-Midleton, Waterford-New Ross and Wexford-Rosslare are all that's in there. Three of the least important sections for upgrading.

N25 - Carrigtwohill to Midleton [route options published]

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