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Penalty for Refusing Jobpath

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    #92
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    I have to admired someone who may have been signing on for years because they are far smarter then me whos working,don't know how they do it,i was unemployed for a while back in 2013 and remember having to prove how many jobs i applied for, and i don't mean this is in a sarcastic way, i generally mean it, i just live to work, just scrape through every week trying to pay the bills.


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    #93
    Slorpo
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Slorpo


    splinter65 wrote: »
    How would being employed somewhere stop him from applying for a job somewhere else?

    Just an educated guess. If he had taken the night shift job he wouldn't be applying to as many jobs, could very easily have missed the opportunity that he did get in the end.

    He did the right thing as he's much better off now


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    #94
    Slorpo
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Slorpo


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I still can’t see how 2 one hour meetings a week with Seetec/TN hamper anyone from finding a job themselves. It’s just a question of showing up and cooperating. What harm can it be if your going to be employed again in a few weeks?

    I was living with my brother at the time and I know it was demotivating to him. Might be the opposite effect for others.

    If you're trying to do something to the best of your ability, and you have to report your failure twice a week and explain yourself (when there's nothing to explain) , that's not helpful and will more than likely get you very down. If they had been doing something productive for him it would have been a different story but they weren't.


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    #95
    clfy39tzve8njq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 597 ✭✭✭clfy39tzve8njq


    Deleted User wrote:
    Unfortunately there are some people who are and always will be unemployable. This could range from cute hoorism to undiagnosed mental health issues.


    Not to mention bone idle laziness. I often see post on this site about how difficult it is to get disability allowance. Well tis some joke the scobes that I know are on it.
    Young fellas that never worked a day in their life. I'd love to know how they get on it.
    There's almost full employment now so anyone that bloody wants to work has a job.


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    #96
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    Ninthlife wrote: »
    They use your PPS number to see what employment you are registered for. No super sleuthing really. Employer could also just pass details on instead of being annoyed

    The fact that they are a private company who forged my name on a contract that I refused to sign does not give them the right to use my pps number.. They contacted my employer with the sole purpose of getting commission from SW (tax payers money)for a job I got myself.As my employer did not know who they were he refused to give out any information about me and told them to contact me directly.


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    #97
    trixiebust
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭trixiebust


    teddyhead wrote: »
    So nobody can answer the opening question about how you opt out of being coerced into a private agency(job path) that is actually screwing the tax payer ?

    What a worthless site.

    Oh,they probably could have if it was circa 2011/12.

    But now, because RTE keep telling us that the country has recovered, all you get here is that if you're unemployed, you are some sort of a waster & not worthy of their time. Unless it's for a sarky comment.


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    #98
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    There’s nothing demeaning in being helped find work. What IS demeaning is queuing up every week to collect your dole money in your local post Office.

    You can get it paid directly into your bank....no queuing necessary.
    No. You can't.


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    #99
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    No. You can't.

    Covered already


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    #100
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Slorpo wrote: »
    It's unfit for purpose, this company doesn't give a damn about your qualifications and background, if you're a medical doctor and a job comes up in a sweet shop, they'll badger you into applying.

    If it gets people of unemployment benefits and reduces the costs to the taxpayers it is very much fit for purpose. It is not a careers guidance service for heaven’s sake, no matter how much you’d like it to be.


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    #101
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    king2 wrote: »
    I have been selected for the Atrocity known as Jobpath for the second time and I am considering refusing to participate. Has anyone here refused it before and if so how was their payment affected. DSP will not give a straight answer saying penalties are at the discretion of the Case Officer and can be anything from a reduction to complete cessation of payment.

    You are basically telling them you have no interest in finding a job if you do that, so you’d want to have a really good reason to convince the case officer not to penalize you for refusing to go.

    The obvious argument for not going would be to show you case officer that you have been applying all the stuff they pointed out to you the first time around and therefore it would not made a difference to your situation if you were not to attend.


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    #102
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    SFC1895 wrote: »
    Another thread started by a subhuman sponger
    Who knew the ubermenschen would bother with boards?


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    #103
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Johnnycanyon wrote: »
    The fact that they are a private company who forged my name on a contract that I refused to sign does not give them the right to use my pps number.

    Right so you have evidence of of a criminal offense and you need to report it to the Garda. Have you done this or are just blowing hot air?


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    #104
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    teddyhead wrote: »
    So nobody can answer the opening question about how you opt out of being coerced into a private agency(job path) that is actually screwing the tax payer ?

    What a worthless site.

    Oh you mean as opposed to individuals who screw the taxpayers who claim benefits without making a genuine effort to find a job.... self entertainment strikes again!


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    #105
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    teddyhead wrote:
    So nobody can answer the opening question about how you opt out of being coerced into a private agency(job path) that is actually screwing the tax payer ?


    Well your not paying tax so no worries


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    #106
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    trixiebust wrote:
    But now, because RTE keep telling us that the country has recovered, all you get here is that if you're unemployed, you are some sort of a waster & not worthy of their time. Unless it's for a sarky comment.


    Loads of jobs out there. Just people not wanting to work


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    #107
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    I must say I find the tread interesting...

    I have never been unemployed in Ireland, but I’m going through it here in Switzerland right now and seems to be much more difficult!

    - First off, your employer has to confirm that you did not loose your job through any fault of your own. The employer is required to complete a questionnaire and provide a reference letter. So poor performance reviews, poor time keeping etc could stuff you up.

    - Once on benefits, you are assigned to a case officer who normally has about 25 people to control, so they have plenty of time to check up on you. Each month you need to produce a report detailing the jobs you applied for within your profession, jobs outside your area of training that you could do, cold calls you made and networking events you took part in. This is reviewed and followed up by your case officer. Bad feedback from an application, such as you were not presentable at an interview for instance would cause you great problems.

    - At the start you don’t have to accept a job outside your profession, outside one hours travel from home and with a salary of less than 80% of your previous salary. As time goes on this expands until you get to a point where you are required to accept any job with any salary within a two and a half hour traveling distance of home each way.

    - Benefits last for about two years at a rate of 70% - 80% of your previous salary and after that there is nothing. If you are unable to support yourself there after you become a social case, meaning you will receive financial support according to your needs as they see fit (no specific entitlement) and you are required to pay it back once you find a job.


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    #108
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Copy and paste job here as I posted it in the wrong thread..

    The problem with Jobpath is its all about full-time employment.

    Earn €20/hr in a part time job? Nope must get full time job earning €10/hour.

    The thing that pisses me off is that they don't class part time work as employment.

    I was working 3 part time jobs at one point. But as far as they are concerned I have been long term unemployed since 2009 as that was when I last had a 9-5, 40 hour/ week job.

    I still work part time and am on this bloody thing. Yes it may be good for people that have done zero work in years, but to be told that bursting your balls trying to juggle 3 part time jobs "is not good enough" is fecking insulting.


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    #109
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Copy and paste job here as I posted it in the wrong thread..

    The problem with Jobpath is its all about full-time employment.

    Earn €20/hr in a part time job? Nope must get full time job earning €10/hour.

    The thing that pisses me off is that they don't class part time work as employment.

    I was working 3 part time jobs at one point. But as far as they are concerned I have been long term unemployed since 2009 as that was when I last had a 9-5, 40 hour/ week job.

    I still work part time and am on this bloody thing. Yes it may be good for people that have done zero work in years, but to be told that bursting your balls trying to juggle 3 part time jobs "is not good enough" is fecking insulting.
    I presume you are not longer signing on? If that is the case tell to f*** off. You no longer have any obligation to attend there, despite what they might say.


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    #110
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I feel JobPath type schemes would be much more successful if they included treatment for depression. Whether this be therapy or medication or group exercise or whatever.

    I think many people don't realise what appears to be a lack of motivation is actually depression.


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    #111
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Maybe some are depressed but there are many who are just unemployable.


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    #112
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Ursus Horribilis wrote: »
    Maybe some are depressed but there are many who are just unemployable.

    Yes I think that's true too.

    Or at least, they are unemployable in their current state.

    Can that state be repaired so they can be employed in some capacity?

    For example, a security guard by himself at night probably doesn't need to be very good at socialising etc. He just needs to be able to put on the uniform, turn up, and stay awake. (I know nothing about security, but hopefully you get my meaning). So if he can't work with people for whatever reason, maybe this sort of job could be a possibility.


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    #113
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Its more of a lack of work ethic though. Can that be learned after a certain stage in a person's life? You could send them out to work as a security person but getting them to stay is another matter entirely.


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    #114
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Right so you have evidence of of a criminal offense and you need to report it to the Garda. Have you done this or are just blowing hot air?
    I sure do! And there is being something done about it.


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    #115
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Johnnycanyon wrote: »
    I sure do! And there is being something done about it.

    Is it Jeff Rudd that’s sorting it out for you? You really need to read the thread here on boards about Jeff. It’s very funny but kinda sad too. Jeff is not quite a Walter Mitty because he’s actually very very cute but his delusions of grandeur are a sight to behold nonetheless.

    Here’s the thread
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057766783/89


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    #116
    n!ghtmancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭n!ghtmancometh


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Loads of jobs out there. Just people not wanting to work

    That's bollocks, the vast vast majority of people don't want to exist on 198 a week. Also, have you been personally looking for these "loads of jobs" lately? my younger sister has a degree and good work history and struggled to get anything full time, job she got now is ft only til January.

    Also, Jobopath is a scam paid for by the taxpayer. I was referred to them a few years ago and all they ever did was change the fonts on my CV or try to get me to apply for unsuitable jobs (I have arthritis in my knees and hands) like construction site operative etc.

    I eventually found a job myself, and they hounded me for weeks looking for my new employers details so they could claim a payment off the state for finding me the job, even though they had 0 to do with me getting it, I didn't even use their crappy CV!

    Two of the companies that run the scheme for €84 million of taxpayer money (Working Links and Seetec) were accused of scamming the UK government whilst running a similar scheme over there.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/working-links-accused-engaging-systemic-2031388

    https://beastrabban.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/private-eye-on-allegations-of-fraud-at-seetec/


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    #117
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Is it Jeff Rudd that’s sorting it out for you? You really need to read the thread here on boards about Jeff. It’s very funny but kinda sad too. Jeff is not quite a Walter Mitty because he’s actually very very cute but his delusions of grandeur are a sight to behold nonetheless.

    Here’s the thread
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057766783/89
    Its not but I will check it out ,thanks.


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    #118
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    n!ghtmancometh wrote:
    That's bollocks, the vast vast majority of people don't want to exist on 198 a week. Also, have you been personally looking for these "loads of jobs" lately? my younger sister has a degree and good work history and struggled to get anything full time, job she got now is ft only til January.


    As i said i was recently looking to hire a couple of people myself and it was very difficult to get people that actually wanted to work.

    There is a difference. Between available jobs and defined careers where you wont take just anything. I mean ffs if you really didnt want 198 a week you would actually just take anything. I did because i have responsibilities. I know many others who did the same. Once you are working even in a job you dont want, at least your not unemployed and just watching jeremy kyle every day. While working you can still look for a more suitable job. Too many lazy people who wont do decent jobs that are actually available.

    Is there a lot of jobs out there? Yes there is. There really is. In fact all you have to do is check indeed and you see loads going up every day. Lets test the theory, what town/city do you live in?


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    #119
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    Mr.H wrote: »
    There is actually a lot of jobs out there right now. I mean A LOT. I am constantly looking for staff and I am constantly approached for new jobs.

    I find that its more to do with the fact some people dont want to work in certain locations, or dont want certain jobs because they think they are above them

    It's not as simple as that, many employers will not take on somebody they deem overqualified even if that person is wiling do so the job as they feel the person wil move on as soon as something better turns up.

    People not wanting to work in certain locations is totally logical imo if they can't afford to. Anyone from outside of Dublin at the minute for eg would need to be offered one heck of a salary to be able to afford to move there and pay rent. It accounts for a lot of the shortages in low-paid jobs, for eg care-staff and even substitute teachers.


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    #120
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Loads of jobs out there. Just people not wanting to work

    Literally the most unhelpful thing you can say to someone who's looking for a job. It took me several months to find one - and 'Jobpath' proved more of a hindrance than a help.


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    #121
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    Literally the most unhelpful thing you can say to someone who's looking for a job. It took me several months to find one - and 'Jobpath' proved more of a hindrance than a help.

    Bull. I said it already that I was unemployed for a long time. I was just going about my job search wrong. If someone is failing to find work then they need help!


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