Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Dyr · 12-12-2018 12:16AM

Folkstonian wrote: »

Absolutely. I definitely don’t think there is any agenda behind it on the part of the journalists, they just want the big scoop.

It's not that hard to put feelers out to Bradys camp for some sort of confirmation/denial before running it. Kussenberg has a habit of running stories that turn out to be misinformation.

LeinsterDub · 12-12-2018 12:17AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Basically the DUP want to torpedo the GFA by having a hard brexit

That's the way I see their policy working out

https://twitter.com/skydavidblevins/status/1072608892260114432

That may be careful of what they wish for.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 12-12-2018 12:19AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Basically the DUP want to torpedo the GFA by having a hard brexit

That's the way I see their policy working out

i think you misread their intentions.
if they are given a choice between sundering the Union with GB and a Hard border with us, you know that's not even a question as far as the DUP is concerned.

for them there will only ever be 1 winner.
why are people acting so surprised?

Peregrinus · 12-12-2018 12:23AM

Bambi wrote: »

It's not that hard to put feelers out to Bradys camp for some sort of confirmation/denial before running it. Kussenberg has a habit of running stories that turn out to be misinformation.

Can you point to any particular examples?

LeinsterDub · 12-12-2018 12:25AM

Bambi wrote: »

If that's the case, you have to wonder about Kussenberg and the BBC news team, not the first time that she's regurgitated a line that was fed to her by the ERG.

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1072630744693047297

Very fluid situation it seems the number has been reached. Going to the palace would suggest she is going to resign. However I agree Kussenberg isn't reliable

Infini · 12-12-2018 12:26AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Basically the DUP want to torpedo the GFA by having a hard brexit

That's the way I see their policy working out

Except that its not only utterly wreckless but could be potentially self defeating as if the Brits wreck themselves for the sake of arrogant foolishness and allow a hard brexit to take place theyd be at the mercy of the EU for any agreement and we could easily turn around and basically say because the Brits broke it one of the conditions for any agreement could be a border poll.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 12-12-2018 12:29AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Can you point to any particular examples?

i've always found Laura to be very reliable, but we all know what often happens the messenger when the news is not good?

theguzman · 12-12-2018 12:31AM

I have supported Brexit from the very outset long before the Referendum and I support a Hard Brexit today. A hard Brexit and a hard Border are in my best interests as a Nationalist because I want a United Ireland, and quiet frankly it is time to move on from the Good Friday Agreement and that was a great instrument to end years of conflict but from a Nationalist viewpoint it has done nothing over the last twenty years other than stall the national question and lets Unionist rule in the six counties continue.

A referendum is needed and simple Demographic change will deliver a United Ireland eventually. I am also anti-Eu so was delighted to see the UK leave so as to inflict a defeat on the entire European project. I must give credit to Arlene Foster that whilst I am diametrically opposed to her she is the most faithful and loyal politician to her voter base and she is representing what they want.

Theresa May is not honouring the Brexit which the democratic majority of UK voters wanted to leave the EU, our leader was not democratically elected, he does not have the majority of Fine Gael party members backing him, and got elected as leader and thus Taoiseach because the FG party values the vote of their party TD's and County Councillors ahead of the ordinary FG members, the vast majority of whom backed Simon Coveney for leader.

LeinsterDub · 12-12-2018 12:34AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Can you point to any particular examples?

Check out her Twitter at the last ERG power play she was reporting 60 letters and it ended up less than 25. Now in fairness she's only reporting what she's been told however this has been symptomatic of the issues with the BBC. Reporting both sides as creditable. Repeating the lies of proven liers.

Dyr · 12-12-2018 12:35AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Can you point to any particular examples?

The last claim by the ERG that there were 48 letters came through her, also claimed that Villiers had submitted a letter and had to correct herself a few minutes later, that smacks of someone who's willing to run with whatever she's told.

Seem to recall similar carry on during the various heaves against Corbyn.

Rjd2 · 12-12-2018 12:39AM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i've always found Laura to be very reliable, but we all know what often happens the messenger when the news is not good?

She's an ambulance chaser at times. She is good, but as she is so desperate to break everything she can get misled. She annoyed the Jezza disciples by some poor editing regarding him (hitjob tbh) and I do remember her "breaking" a Guido Fawkes exclusive without any credit a few years ago.

She does come in for a lot of criticism though which is a bit unfair, death threats from the Corbynites which meant she had to hire a bodyguard last year and obviously plenty of abuse online from right wingers who are not the most enlightened.

Capt'n Midnight · 12-12-2018 12:39AM

robinph wrote: »

Article 50 needs a UK/ Ireland specific clause to say that one can only leave with the other as they are tied together through other history and until they separate themselves from each other fully (NI getting spun off) they will be considered one entity for article 50.

WTF ?

At partition something like 94% of our exports went to the UK ,now it's just 12%. We do import 24% from/via the UK, but we've been looking for alternative suppliers and supply chains since. (They need to export to us more than we need to export to them.)

At present we both have the CTA opt-out of Schengen.

But if the UK leave and want to rejoin the EU we can force Schengen on them by not insisting on our Opt-Out.

If there is a United Ireland we could probably join Schengen the following day.

MrMusician18 · 12-12-2018 12:46AM

Folkstonian wrote: »

Absolutely. I definitely don’t think there is any agenda behind it on the part of the journalists, they just want the big scoop.

But clearly their sources aren’t as reliable as they would like to think, as demonstrated time and time again over the past few months on the no confidence vote.

I wish they would simply stick to reporting news and not just speculation.

In fairness to Laura K (and I wouldn't defend her often) she did stress several times that the 48 letters was an unconfirmed rumour.

That said, the BBCs coverage of Brexit in general has been appalling (See newsnight tonight). But often in crises you have to look to foreign journalists who don't have skin in the game for the real story.

am i bovvered · 12-12-2018 12:50AM

theguzman wrote: »

I must give credit to Arlene Foster that whilst I am diametrically opposed to her she is the most faithful and loyal politician to her voter base and she is representing what they want.

I don’t understand how anyone can give credit to Arlene Foster ? IMO a terrible politician, and certainly not working for the interests of her support base. I never could understand the support of Brexit as it was certain to undermine the Union.
I believe she succeeded in creating the best chance of a Ireland.
How ironic the she could become a republican hero ðŸ˜‚

Capt'n Midnight · 12-12-2018 01:06AM

Hurrache wrote: »

I'm sure anyone who has been watching any of the outside broadcasts from the house of commons would have seen that guy holding the anti Brexit placard, he even got a giant pole when TV stations raised their outside studio on platforms.

His name is Steve Bray and today he was removed from College Green by the police and warned about "criminal damage of a live broadcast".

He's been mentioned a lot. David Mitchell commented on him by saying that when the nutters who normally go around with "the end is nigh" placards start saying things like "lets have a mature reconsideration" you know things have gone insane.

Also loved the comment that SKY and BBC spent £15,000 on the elevated stand, and yer man just got a longer stick.

From earlier on
https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/1211/1016477-mr-stop-brexit/

A hero. Not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed. Nothing less than a knight. Shining..

Capt'n Midnight · 12-12-2018 01:18AM

am i bovvered wrote: »

I don’t understand how anyone can give credit to Arlene Foster ?

The problem is that the Westminster DUP MP's do their own thing. :mad:

Folkstonian · 12-12-2018 01:38AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

WTF ?

At partition something like 94% of our exports went to the UK ,now it's just 12%. We do import 24% from/via the UK, but we've been looking for alternative suppliers and supply chains since. (They need to export to us more than we need to export to them.)

At present we both have the CTA opt-out of Schengen.

But if the UK leave and want to rejoin the EU we can force Schengen on them by not insisting on our Opt-Out.

If there is a United Ireland we could probably join Schengen the following day.

In all seriousness, would you actually want to join the Schengen area?

Britain and Ireland are incredibly fortunate to be outside of it at the moment.

Laois_Man · 12-12-2018 01:45AM

am i bovvered wrote: »

I don’t understand how anyone can give credit to Arlene Foster ? IMO a terrible politician, and certainly not working for the interests of her support base. I never could understand the support of Brexit as it was certain to undermine the Union.
I believe she succeeded in creating the best chance of a Ireland.
How ironic the she could become a republican hero &#55357;&#56834;

Teresa may might become the Republican hero

Nothing Arlene Foster has done has mattered a damn!

hill16bhoy · 12-12-2018 02:04AM

Folkstonian wrote: »

In all seriousness, would you actually want to join the Schengen area?

Britain and Ireland are incredibly fortunate to be outside of it at the moment.

I'd like to see us join Schengen and still be part of the Common Travel Area.

And if that appears to make no sense at all given that Britain is not part of Schengen and would object, well, it makes at least as much sense as Britain's plans to avoid a hard border in Ireland.

Why can't Ireland have its cake and eat it too?

20silkcut · 12-12-2018 02:19AM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Teresa may might become the Republican hero

Nothing Arlene Foster has done has mattered a damn!

Leo Varadkar and Fine Gael the party of John “unionist” Bruton are nearly worthy of a mural on the falls road at this stage.
Such is the madness of Brexit.

fash · 12-12-2018 06:13AM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i think you misread their intentions.
if they are given a choice between sundering the Union with GB and a Hard border with us, you know that's not even a question as far as the DUP is concerned.

for them there will only ever be 1 winner.
why are people acting so surprised?

If that were the case, they would have been encouraging Theresa May to go with a softer brexit- where none of these issues arise. They have repeatedly not done so- and always ruled out a soft brexit - despite not really caring about brexit and prior to brexit emphasising the importance of the EU.

opinionated3 · 12-12-2018 07:18AM

theguzman wrote: »

I have supported Brexit from the very outset long before the Referendum and I support a Hard Brexit today. A hard Brexit and a hard Border are in my best interests as a Nationalist because I want a United Ireland, and quiet frankly it is time to move on from the Good Friday Agreement and that was a great instrument to end years of conflict but from a Nationalist viewpoint it has done nothing over the last twenty years other than stall the national question and lets Unionist rule in the six counties continue.

A referendum is needed and simple Demographic change will deliver a United Ireland eventually. I am also anti-Eu so was delighted to see the UK leave so as to inflict a defeat on the entire European project. I must give credit to Arlene Foster that whilst I am diametrically opposed to her she is the most faithful and loyal politician to her voter base and she is representing what they want.

Theresa May is not honouring the Brexit which the democratic majority of UK voters wanted to leave the EU, our leader was not democratically elected, he does not have the majority of Fine Gael party members backing him, and got elected as leader and thus Taoiseach because the FG party values the vote of their party TD's and County Councillors ahead of the ordinary FG members, the vast majority of whom backed Simon Coveney for leader.

Ireland following the Brits example of leaving the EU would be utterly catastrophic for us as a nation..... You do know that don't you?

fash · 12-12-2018 07:22AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Ireland following the Brits example of leaving the EU would be utterly catastrophic for us as a nation..... You do know that don't you?

Not for those who want a United Ireland- just so we can go back under UK control again...

Peregrinus · 12-12-2018 07:25AM

fash wrote: »

Not for those who want a United Ireland- just so we can go back under UK control again...

I think the class of people who want a united Ireland so that we can go back under UK control again is a small one.

Zubeneschamali · 12-12-2018 07:26AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

the risk being Ireland might be leaned by other EU countries.

That is not the risk. The risk is that the Brits crash out by accident.

Peregrinus · 12-12-2018 07:35AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That is not the risk. The risk is that the Brits crash out by accident.

Less of a risk, now that it has been established that the UK can call off Brexit at any time before it happens, without needing any agreement from the EU. If they do crash out without a deal it won't be "by accident"; it will be because they have chosen to do that rather than to call the whole thing off.

Zubeneschamali · 12-12-2018 07:42AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Less of a risk, now that it has been established that the UK can call off Brexit at any time before it happens, without needing any agreement from the EU. If they do crash out without a deal it won't be "by accident"; it will be because they have chosen to do that rather than to call the whole thing off.

Agreed, but I can't see May calling it off. She has, if you'll pardon the expression, been very clear. If it comes to the deadline, I can see her going no-deal if the only alternative is no Brexit.

The accidental element would be that there is no majority for a no-deal crashout in Parliament, but Westminster procedures may not allow MPs to stop it.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-12-2018 08:14AM

opinionated3 wrote: »

Ireland following the Brits example of leaving the EU would be utterly catastrophic for us as a nation..... You do know that don't you?

I believe that the views this poster expresses are not genuine and he may post certain things purely to elicit a response from other posters. In another thread he's a pure bred, good ole' American boy.
I think there's a term for it, can't quite remember it, tip of my tongue, so it is, I think it rhymes with roll...

Peregrinus · 12-12-2018 08:37AM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I believe that the views this poster expresses are not genuine and he may post certain things purely to elicit a response from other posters. In another thread he's a pure bred, good ole' American boy.
I think there's a term for it, can't quite remember it, tip of my tongue, so it is, I think it rhymes with roll...

Rhymes with "doll", surely?

devnull · 12-12-2018 08:37AM

Sky now reporting threshold for a no confidence vote in Theresa May has been reached.

Seems there's been an influx overnight to push them over the line and the ERG egging on tactics I described earlier were successful.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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