Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 04:57PM

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

J Mysterio · 11-12-2018 04:58PM

tuxy wrote: »

SNP trying to push Labour to go for no confidence vote now. Labour holding off as they don't think they can win it right now.

If ever a no confidence vote could be won, surely it is now.

J Mysterio · 11-12-2018 04:58PM

robinph wrote: »

What about the remain option which we've just been told is now possible after two years of being lied to about it not being possible?

Sorry, I meant May Deal or Remain... editing previous post.

Leroy42 · 11-12-2018 05:00PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

I don't understand. Are you claiming that either Trump or Brexit were not allowed?

Trump is currently POTUS, so your point is nonsense on that. Brexit has been tried and found to be less than promised. So again, the liberals stood by and gave them the chance.

It is not their fault that the Brexiteers are either incompetent or unable to deliver.

J Mysterio · 11-12-2018 05:00PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

Youve made this point already and received educated responses to this.

marno21 · 11-12-2018 05:01PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

Is it not perfectly acceptable for there to be a potential shift from one side to the other? After all the original referendum was a 52/48 result, and since then people have actually learned what they were voting for, there was a demographic shift, and it became clear that the binary referendum of 2016 had the remain option, where remainers voted for one common result, the status quo, and leavers voted for a wide spectrum of leave scenarios which they themselves cannot even agree on as seen on the C4 debate the last day (no deal/May deal/renegotiated deal or whether CU/SM memebership is wanted).

If it was a case of we should rerun the referendum then why was the 2016 referendum allowed when it is effectively a rerun of the 1975 referendum? Was the will of the people in 1975 not enough?

tuxy · 11-12-2018 05:01PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

If ever a no confidence vote could be won, surely it is now.

Maybe when she returns from yet another tour of European capitals empty handed and still won't hold a vote on her deal confidence will drop even lower.

Merkel just gave her the same answer that the tweets from Brussels gave last night.

4068ac1elhodqr · 11-12-2018 05:02PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I always find it ironic that the side so convinced and vocal about project fear spend so much of their time sending out warnings of chaos

Or the chaotic fear of fear itself, leading to choas, before there is even any actual chaos?

Not all choas/change is bad anyway, JC coupled with the SNP may well give the regions kind of what they wanted anyway. By the way of Scot Ind, plus a UI, both coupled back into the bussom of the EU.

England (maybe wales too), can then set off on their global endeavour as a tax haven, exporter of fine (Indian) tea, cakes and souveniers of red buses etc. All they would have to worry about, is topping up Hadrians wall.

Rory28 · 11-12-2018 05:05PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i find it ironic that those liberals who always prattle on about people not exercising their democratic rights are the very one's to express shock and horror when the people do exactly that.

cases in point: Brexit victory. Trump election.

I was watching a few James O'Brien clips on youtube. One of his callers made this point and James had a great answer. Is this what people voted for? Did the people who voted to leave the EU but stay in the single market vote for this? Did the people who voted to become like the Swiss or the Norwegians etc etc.

A second ref is the only decent thing to do to clear this mess up.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 05:10PM

Rory28 wrote: »

I was watching a few James O'Brien clips on youtube. One of his callers made this point and James had a great answer. Is this what people voted for? Did the people who voted to leave the EU but stay in the single market vote for this? Did the people who voted to become like the Swiss or the Norwegians etc etc.

A second ref is the only decent thing to do to clear this mess up.

i beg to differ.
a 2nd ref will only serve to make a bigger mess out of what is clearly a fiasco.
sometimes when you're in a hole...

Kermit.de.frog · 11-12-2018 05:11PM

Theresa May is coming to Dublin tomorrow to sort out Leo apparently.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 05:20PM

marno21 wrote: »

Is it not perfectly acceptable for there to be a potential shift from one side to the other? After all the original referendum was a 52/48 result, and since then people have actually learned what they were voting for, there was a demographic shift, and it became clear that the binary referendum of 2016 had the remain option, where remainers voted for one common result, the status quo, and leavers voted for a wide spectrum of leave scenarios which they themselves cannot even agree on as seen on the C4 debate the last day (no deal/May deal/renegotiated deal or whether CU/SM memebership is wanted).

If it was a case of we should rerun the referendum then why was the 2016 referendum allowed when it is effectively a rerun of the 1975 referendum? Was the will of the people in 1975 not enough?

but as demonstrated by the myriad of proposals here, the 2nd vote proponents cant even agree amongst themselves what should be on the ballot paper, even how the vote should be formulated.

An Ciarraioch · 11-12-2018 05:22PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

Is it not perfectly acceptable for there to be a potential shift from one side to the other? After all the original referendum was a 52/48 result, and since then people have actually learned what they were voting for, there was a demographic shift, and it became clear that the binary referendum of 2016 had the remain option, where remainers voted for one common result, the status quo, and leavers voted for a wide spectrum of leave scenarios which they themselves cannot even agree on as seen on the C4 debate the last day (no deal/May deal/renegotiated deal or whether CU/SM memebership is wanted).

If it was a case of we should rerun the referendum then why was the 2016 referendum allowed when it is effectively a rerun of the 1975 referendum? Was the will of the people in 1975 not enough?

but as demonstrated by the myriad of proposals here, the 2nd vote proponents cant even agree amongst themselves what should be on the ballot paper, even how the vote should be formulated.

You put the three options, and the top two go through to a runoff, as happens in France.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 05:23PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

You put the three options, and the top two go through to a runoff, as happens in France.

thank you. for demonstrating my point.

LeinsterDub · 11-12-2018 05:24PM

Repeating her calls for a border poll during Leaders’ Questions, McDonald said uniting Ireland would remove the issue of the backstop.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-border-poll-4388094-Dec2018/

SF calling a border poll , this seems like very poor timing to me. This just gives the DUP ammo to claim that SF just want to see a hard brexit to bring about a UI

Kermit.de.frog · 11-12-2018 05:24PM

Newsnight blog...

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1072520557403537408

Ireland is member of EU, that's why it has an abnormal say in this process...

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 05:26PM

why not have 5 options, with the top 3 going through to a runoff, followed by another runoff of the top 2?

VinLieger · 11-12-2018 05:29PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Newsnight blog...

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1072520557403537408

Ireland is member of EU, that's why it has an abnormal say in this process...

Theres nothing abnormal about it to the rest of the world the english just aren't used to having us at an equal or stronger position at the negotiating table than they are

LeinsterDub · 11-12-2018 05:30PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Newsnight blog...

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1072520557403537408

Ireland is member of EU, that's why it has an abnormal say in this process...

To these peoples minds the EU is either run by the Germans or the Germans and the French and they simply can't grasp why the EU is backing up one of it's own .

First Up · 11-12-2018 05:30PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

why not have 5 options, with the top 3 going through to a runoff, followed by another runoff of the top 2?

I think you just demonstrated a lot of other peoples' point.

robinph · 11-12-2018 05:31PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

You put the three options, and the top two go through to a runoff, as happens in France.

Well one option is remain then with 48% of the vote from the first time round, the leavers now get to pick which option they want and put that up against the remain option.

devnull · 11-12-2018 05:31PM

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1072520557403537408[/url]

Over the last few months Tory MPs have asked in private how the Irish Republic can believe its relationship with the EU trumps its relationship with the UK.

More British arrogance on display there, talking about how can we think the EU is more important to us than the British are, you'd swear that they were a massive superpower like China or the US the way thy go on.

Reality check is badly needed.

ancapailldorcha · 11-12-2018 05:32PM

One-liner deleted.

lawred2 · 11-12-2018 05:34PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-border-poll-4388094-Dec2018/

SF calling a border poll , this seems like very poor timing to me. This just gives the DUP ammo to claim that SF just want to see a hard brexit to bring about a UI

didn't really call for a border poll did they?

they said a no deal crash out situation pushes a border poll forward..

hard to argue surely

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 05:35PM

robinph wrote: »

Well one option is remain then with 48% of the vote from the first time round, the leavers now get to pick which option they want and put that up against the remain option.

i'm losing count of these options now.
and i thought we were here to simplify matters:rolleyes:

LeinsterDub · 11-12-2018 05:36PM

lawred2 wrote: »

didn't really call for a border poll did they?

they said a no deal crash out situation pushes a border poll forward..

hard to argue surely

She told reporters this morning that in the case of crash-out deal, a border poll should be called

But I hear what you're saying she didn't out and out say lets have a vote now.

tuxy · 11-12-2018 05:37PM

"This simply cannot stand," the one-time moderniser told me. "The Irish really should know their place."

The problem for people like this is that Ireland does know it's place in the EU something the UK government always had trouble with.

Seth Brundle · 11-12-2018 05:42PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Newsnight blog...

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1072520557403537408

Ireland is member of EU, that's why it has an abnormal say in this process...

I'm curious to know what they think our place is (apart from being part of the team of 27).

Rory28 · 11-12-2018 05:45PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'm curious to know what they think our place is (apart from being part of the team of 27).

Under their thumb I would expect. It is especially outrageous considering one of their numbers threatened us with a blockade just last week. Priti silly all things considered.

briany · 11-12-2018 05:47PM

tuxy wrote: »

The problem for people like this is that Ireland does know it's place in the EU something the UK government always had trouble with.

Either this source is saying what they're saying out of ignorance or a desire to stoke up divisions with Ireland and make it seem more like it's ireland that is being wilfully intractable out of spite. Either way, the person's words should not be risen to. Does no-one any good.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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