Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

serfboard · 10-12-2018 07:50PM

robindch wrote: »

all you've to do is whinge about complexity

Which is how "It will be so easy" turns into "Who knew Healthcare was so complicated?"

robindch · 10-12-2018 07:54PM

One of the few positives to come out of the ongoing chaos is that the Tories have gone a long way towards discrediting the very idea of Brexit in the first place.

joe40 · 10-12-2018 07:58PM

I find it amazing that the northern ireland border is the main sticking point now but was hardly mentioned at all during the Brexit campaign or the general election. Either staggering arrogance or staggering stupidity.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2018 08:01PM

All the bookies have reigned in the odds of a 2nd Ref.
It's getting to more or less close to an 'evens chance' they might even call one, perhaps just to prospone anyone taking any real decisions.

Hard to know if the 17.4m will sit back and take being asked again,
or take inspiration from their Frenchy cousions who just threw a strop over diesel prices.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-12-2018 08:03PM

joe40 wrote: »

I find it amazing that the northern ireland border is the main sticking point now but was hardly mentioned at all during the Brexit campaign or the general election. Either staggering arrogance or staggering stupidity.

Can be both at the same time

theguzman · 10-12-2018 08:05PM

joe40 wrote: »

I find it amazing that the northern ireland border is the main sticking point now but was hardly mentioned at all during the Brexit campaign or the general election. Either staggering arrogance or staggering stupidity.

The mainstream media and vast majority of the British political liberal elite were in favour of remaining in the EU and they basically rubbished the idea and had such total arrogance and certainty that they never expected the UK to actually leave in the first place. Nigel Farage and a host of other British Patriots had other things to say about that and the British electorate made a very well informed decision and smartly decided to leave.

David Cameron himself a staunch Europhile resigned the following day and his political gamble to appease the Euroskeptics backfired badly on him. Theresa May then doubled down by calling an Early election only to lose her Majority and put the DUP and Euroskeptics in firm control. It has all been very entertaining to watch and watching the liberal Europhiles squirm as they lost and refuse to accept it has been all the better.

Tell me how · 10-12-2018 08:07PM

I watched a good portion of the debate in the house of commons this afternoon.

Some people not holding back at all in pointing fingers at and naming the hard Brexiteers for the role in the fiasco so far and saying the obvious that no deal will make the ERG happy.

listermint · 10-12-2018 08:08PM

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

All the bookies have reigned in the odds of a 2nd Ref.
It's getting to more or less close to an 'evens chance' they might even call one, perhaps just to prospone anyone taking any real decisions.

Hard to know if the 17.4m will sit back and take being asked again,
or take inspiration from their Frenchy cousions who just threw a strop over diesel prices.

The 17.4 million was a bunch of people tired of the malaise and given an apparent easy answer to their delusion with the government.

They are not a fixed bunch nor is there still anywhere near 17.4 million this time.

Its only folks that are willing for brexit to occur keep quoting this figure.

theguzman · 10-12-2018 08:09PM

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

CrabRevolution · 10-12-2018 08:14PM

It's a shame how without fail, sooner or later every single pro-brexit poster's posts eventually degrade into "We won WW2, and now we'll beat the EU Nazis too" and "Europe will bow to Britain's will" type drivel.

dr.fuzzenstein · 10-12-2018 08:15PM

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

Hello, welcome to the real world. Will Sir be checking in here for long?

serfboard · 10-12-2018 08:16PM

theguzman wrote: »

a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

Aaaaand we're back to the old "They need us more than we need them", last seen circa 2016.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2018 08:17PM

listermint wrote: »

The 17.4 million was a bunch of people tired of the malaise and given an apparent easy answer to their delusion with the government.

They are not a fixed bunch nor is there still anywhere near 17.4 million this time.

Its only folks that are willing for brexit to occur keep quoting this figure.

17,400,000 from 2016 is the only refrence point we have to look upon, unless your sitting upon a crystal ball and know the internal thinking of about 60m folks, in which case would also like to know who will the Superbowl LIII.

Please don't mention some slightly random 'new poll' that asked 1,000 random blokes in the pub, filled with shandies, what they would vote 2nd time around.

Like the numbers or not, it's only the folks who still think it was just a bad dream, (like Trump the POTUS), who are certain it didn't actually happen, nor could ever happen again.

Likely v2.0 went ahead, it wouldn't be a boolean question, but rather multi-choice, full of conditional (if/when) statements, all rich in word-play that leads to further mayhem.

listermint · 10-12-2018 08:18PM

theguzman wrote: »

The mainstream media and vast majority of the British political liberal elite were in favour of remaining in the EU and they basically rubbished the idea and had such total arrogance and certainty that they never expected the UK to actually leave in the first place. Nigel Farage and a host of other British Patriots had other things to say about that and the British electorate made a very well informed decision and smartly decided to leave.

David Cameron himself a staunch Europhile resigned the following day and his political gamble to appease the Euroskeptics backfired badly on him. Theresa May then doubled down by calling an Early election only to lose her Majority and put the DUP and Euroskeptics in firm control. It has all been very entertaining to watch and watching the liberal Europhiles squirm as they lost and refuse to accept it has been all the better.

When a poster uses mainstream / elite / philes in a post you know they are making an aim to descredit their own argument.

Its like barfing up the entirety of Facebook onto the internet in one go.

listermint · 10-12-2018 08:19PM

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

17,400,000 from 2016 is the only refrence point we have to look upon, unless your sitting upon a crystal ball and know the internal thinking of about 60m folks, in which case would also like to know who will the Superbowl LIII.

Please don't mention some slightly random 'new poll' that asked 1,000 random blokes in the pub, filled with shandies, what they would vote 2nd time around.

Like the numbers or not, it's only the folks who still think it was just a bad dream, (like Trump the POTUS), who are certain it didn't actually happen, nor could ever happen again.

Likely v2.0 went ahead, it wouldn't be a boolean question, but rather multi-choice, full of conditional (if/when) statements, all rich in word-play that leads to further mayhem.

What random poll is that yougov? Or the polls that cost nearly two million to run just once ?

Look accum I know you've a penchant for brexit so you don't offer serious discussion when you make remarks like as couple or blokes down the pub , you only make it easy to descredit you.

Don't do that.

Seth Brundle · 10-12-2018 08:21PM

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

In what way has the EU put a gun to the British head?
As for lost sales of German cars, what about all the lost jobs in the UK because of stupidity and arrogance?

Chips Lovell · 10-12-2018 08:26PM

Mod Note

Theguzman will be taking a break from the forum to reconsider their posting style.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2018 08:26PM

listermint wrote: »

What random poll is that yougov? Or the polls that cost nearly two million to run just once ?

Look accum I know you've a penchant for brexit so you don't offer serious discussion when you make remarks like as couple or blokes down the pub , you only make it easy to descredit you.

Don't do that.

Look lefty listy, I know your a left extremist/radical, and that's fair enough.

I don't support brexit, so don't please don't offer up sheer lies.

On the otherhand, I understand/predicted how it occured (like Trump), and would also predict a messy situation if they called it again.

There would no easy guarantee of what way it would go, so don't assume with certaintly you already know the result. It would even more difficult to call than the 1st one.

And don't put a monetary price on holding any referendum, it's a democratic choice for the people not a commercial purchase to consider.

SimonTemplar · 10-12-2018 08:29PM

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

The EU cannot abandon its principles when negotiating with the UK. That's not putting a gun to the UK.

The EU didn't force the UK to have a referendum. The EU wasn't responsible for illegal overspend, lies and unkeepable promises of the EU. The EU wasn't responsible for the xenophobic headlines of some tabloids which turned the referendum into a single issue debate. The EU wasn't responsible for May taking the hardest possible stance when attempting to implement the referendum result. And the EU is not responsible for May refusing to acknowledge that democracy is not based on a fixed point in time by not having a second ref.

The EU is definitely not putting a gun to the UK.

listermint · 10-12-2018 08:30PM

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

Look lefty listy, I know your a left extremist/radical, and that's fair enough.

I don't support brexit, so don't please don't offer up sheer lies.

On the otherhand, I understand/predicted how it occured (like Trump), and would also predict a messy situation if they called it again.

There would no easy guarantee of what way it would go, so don't assume with certaintly you already know the result. It would even more difficult to call than the 1st one.

And don't put a monetary price on holding any referendum, it's a democratic choice for the people not a commercial purchase to consider.

Lefty listy.

How very schoolyard of you well don't did you think that one up in between paddy power logins

Werent you advocating irexit at one point....

I'll get plenty of miles out of that.

Democracy doesn't end after a single vote. Thought you might know that. Alas... Perhaps not

Tell me how · 10-12-2018 08:32PM

Conversation here is starting to mirror Arlene, JRM, Jeremy et al.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2018 08:37PM

listermint wrote: »

Lefty listy.

How very schoolyard of you well don't did you think that one up in between paddy power logins

Werent you advocating irexit at one point....

I'll get plenty of miles out of that.

Democracy doesn't end after a single vote. Thought you might know that. Alas... Perhaps not

Yet more lies, paranoid much? There's tablets for that.

To clarify again, neither support any Irexit, but can predict a growing appetite for it if certain conditions occurs. Prediction isn't support. It's foresight, anyone outside of the schoolyard, should be able to perceive that.

It might be cold next week, I'd rather it wasn't, but what can you do.

So you'd maybe support a yearly brexit vote, that would stop when they get the right answer that you prefer. Hmm sounds very democratic.

road_high · 10-12-2018 08:37PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Euro rapidly hurtling to 91p - at least the Northern shopping centres will profit from the chaos.

And ****e for Irish exporters! Further evidence that we need to diversify move beyond the volatility of the Uk and pound sterling and broaden our own trade horizons

road_high · 10-12-2018 08:45PM

So Tessie is off to Holland in the morning for more begging. How likely are the EU chiefs to give them even more concessions?

serfboard · 10-12-2018 08:49PM

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

So you'd maybe support a yearly brexit vote, that would stop when they get the right answer that you prefer. Hmm sounds very democratic.

Maybe you'd support one election ever - once the people speak, that's it forever and a day, no need to call any elections ever again, the people have spoken etc. etc. That also sounds very democratic

As you know well, no-one would advocate a yearly vote. But when Brexit was being voted on, no-one knew what kind of exit deal would emerge, and while you can say that the public were in favour of leaving the EU, you definitely cannot say that the public were in favour of this deal, because it wasn't on the table then, or no deal.

So, now that there is a deal, the merits of which can be debated, it is more than reasonable to ask the public for their opinion on it, so long as you don't promise them that if they turn it down, renegotiation is on the table, because it's not.

DOCARCH · 10-12-2018 08:50PM

road_high wrote: »

So Tessie is off to Holland in the morning for more begging. How likely are the EU chiefs to give them even more concessions?

EU will not re-open/change the withdrawal agreement.

Only 'concessions' are likely to be some text/words of comfort in relation to future trade deal (which probably will not be worth the paper they are written on!).

road_high · 10-12-2018 08:50PM

theguzman wrote: »

After a No deal they can then go an negotiate whatever they want instead of the EU putting a gun to their heads, a few months of lost sales to the German Auto Industry will soon see Mutti instruct her subordinates in Brussels and her lapdog Macron to give the British what they are asking for.

Have a little chuckle whenever I hear this little red herring. Not heard it in two years though! The “Germans” and all the rest have been pretty clear- they value the eu market more than that uk and that’s their priority. Anyhow once the uk economy has driven itself off that cliff there’ll be fcuk all disposal cash for fancy cars anyhow lol

lawred2 · 10-12-2018 08:53PM

Douglas Thoughtless Headache wrote: »

Yet more lies, paranoid much? There's tablets for that.

To clarify again, neither support any Irexit, but can predict a growing appetite for it if certain conditions occurs. Prediction isn't support. It's foresight, anyone outside of the schoolyard, should be able to perceive that.

It might be cold next week, I'd rather it wasn't, but what can you do.

So you'd maybe support a yearly brexit vote, that would stop when they get the right answer that you prefer. Hmm sounds very democratic.

lucky for us we've only had the one GE since the foundation of the state otherwise it would have been an affront to democracy

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-12-2018 08:59PM

lawred2 wrote: »

lucky for us we've only had the one GE since the foundation of the state otherwise it would have been an affront to democracy

And a regular GE cycle as per nearly every state on the planet, is the same thing as leaving Europe after many decades, a new Independance of sorts?

This year: 2018.
Brexit Ref: 2016
Scotish Independence Ref: 2014

In light of current conditions, can only imagine a few Scots are checking their calanders having been presented with a new dynamic, that appears to be a stalemate of sorts for them.

The question is would a 2nd Ref right now solve anything, the answer is 'who knows', there is a risk it might further complicate matters.

badtoro · 10-12-2018 09:02PM

Just on Scotland, how may they get another indy ref if they wish for one? Are there time limits from the last or other conditions?

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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