Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

J Mysterio · 10-12-2018 05:36PM

May has become totally pathetic today. Absolute embarassment.

tuxy · 10-12-2018 05:37PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

May has become totally pathetic today. Absolute embarassment.

And yet I don't see a no confidence vote coming any time soon.

briany · 10-12-2018 05:38PM

Enzokk wrote: »

As to the proceeding so far, anyone have any idea what is happening? They will go back to negotiate a deal that cannot be changed according to her own words last week. They have delayed the vote on the deal to an undetermined date. They could take this all the way down to 28th March if they wanted to.

She could take it down to the wire and dare the MPs to vote for no deal because the amendment that the HoC must have a vote to stop no deal would then not come into effect.

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-12-2018 05:38PM

Looks like May is forcing this deal as a last minute my deal or no deal. There will not be enough time for a 2nd ref or general election

https://mobile.twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1072162805044969473

McGiver · 10-12-2018 05:41PM

briany wrote: »

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

...changing the font as the EU27 said.

J Mysterio · 10-12-2018 05:41PM

briany wrote: »

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

She knows and understands what the backstop is and exactly how 'temporary' it is. I dont see what Brussels can tell her that she doesnt already know.

Its totally pathetic to weasel out of the 'meaningful vote' with this. Total incomptence, it's ludicrous. I dont know how she is getting away with it.

Enzokk · 10-12-2018 05:43PM

I fear she will be humiliated again if she is not careful. There has been many indications that she cannot change what she negotiated and yet she has sent Ollie Robbins over to get some sort of reassurances that will not in any way be enacted.

EU figures rule out concessions as Theresa May postpones Brexit vote

Ireland’s taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, who had spoken to the UK prime minister on Sunday, said such a clarification of the EU’s intentions would be possible but pointed to the lack of substance to such an offer.

Varadkar echoed the consensus among the 27 member states that a clarification would not detract from the legal reality that the UK would fall into the backstop by default if another solution for avoiding a hard border on the island was not realisable by the end of the transition period.

He said: “We have already offered a lot of concessions along the way. We ended up with the backstop with this withdrawal agreement because of all the red lines the UK laid down along the way.

“This is a withdrawal agreement which has the support of 28 member states. It’s not possible to open up any one aspect of this without opening up all aspects of the agreement.”

Varadkar added: “I have no difficulty with statements that clarify what’s in the withdrawal agreement [like Gibraltar] but no statement of clarification can contradict what’s in it.”

Lets not forget she looks good in the HoC because she is in her own world right now, a few days ago she said its her deal of feck all, now she will go back to negotiate. She says she has listened and changed her mind but when asked about voters she refuses to give them a vote. She is a charlatan and is just making it so much easier for future prime ministers who will have to plumb to such depths to be considered a worse PM than she has been.

McGiver · 10-12-2018 05:43PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

She knows and understands what the backstop is and exactly how 'temporary' it is. I dont see what Brussels can tell her that she doesnt already know.

Its totally pathetic to weasel out of the 'meaningful vote' with this. Total incomptence, it's ludicrous.

I think SNP & Labour will have to make a decision on no confidence vote, otherwise the time will just run out. I don't see any other way to get rid of TM. She's sticking to the PM post as Loctite, impossible to get rid of her.

Enzokk · 10-12-2018 05:47PM

briany wrote: »

If she's going back to Brussels to seek assurances, that wouldn't be changing the deal as such, just underlining certain parts of it.

I know that, everyone in the EU knows that. I think everyone in the UK knows that and even if she comes back with a letter where the EU gives their best assurances that they will work their hardest to ensure the backstop will never be needed they will know it is a farce.

There is no way she is getting her deal through, whether on the 28th March so I am confused on what she actually is trying to do.

Laois_Man · 10-12-2018 05:47PM

Boris in the background finding it hard to stay awake!

McGiver · 10-12-2018 05:48PM

By the way, I've noticed that this was the first time TM mentioned that NI wants status quo basically.

“And the fact that Brexit will create a wholly new situation: on 30 March the Northern Ireland/Ireland border will for the first time become the external frontier of the European Union’s single market and customs union. The challenge this poses must be met not with rhetoric but with real and workable solutions. Businesses operate across that border. People live their lives crossing and re-crossing it every day. I have been there and spoken to some of those people. They do not want their everyday lives to change as a result of the decision we have taken. They do not want a return to a hard border. And if this House cares about preserving our Union, it must listen to those people, because our Union will only endure with their consent.”

tuxy · 10-12-2018 05:48PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Boris in the background finding it hard to stay awake!

I think I too would have to drug myself senseless to get through a day in the hoc

An Ciarraioch · 10-12-2018 05:51PM

Euro rapidly hurtling to 91p - at least the Northern shopping centres will profit from the chaos.

McGiver · 10-12-2018 05:51PM

Enzokk wrote: »

I know that, everyone in the EU knows that. I think everyone in the UK knows that and even if she comes back with a letter where the EU gives their best assurances that they will work their hardest to ensure the backstop will never be needed they will know it is a farce.

There is no way she is getting her deal through, whether on the 28th March so I am confused on what she actually is trying to do.

Delaying tactic, that's how I read it. There is no other explanation. The problem with this that she can run the clock down to No Deal in this way under the right circumstances i.e. Labour doing nothing and Tories prefer the party over the country.

Enzokk · 10-12-2018 05:51PM

McGiver wrote: »

By the way, I've noticed that this was the first time TM mentioned that NI wants status quo basically.

“And the fact that Brexit will create a wholly new situation: on 30 March the Northern Ireland/Ireland border will for the first time become the external frontier of the European Union’s single market and customs union. The challenge this poses must be met not with rhetoric but with real and workable solutions. Businesses operate across that border. People live their lives crossing and re-crossing it every day. I have been there and spoken to some of those people. They do not want their everyday lives to change as a result of the decision we have taken. They do not want a return to a hard border. And if this House cares about preserving our Union, it must listen to those people, because our Union will only endure with their consent.”

Yes, but she also said the country voted as a whole to leave and Scotland must follow the UK out of the EU. She is once again not being honest to the people or even herself.

McGiver · 10-12-2018 05:52PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Euro rapidly hurtling to 91p - at least the Northern shopping centres will profit from the chaos.

It's a good Christmas gift, init maties?

Off to Amazon.co.uk.

Itssoeasy · 10-12-2018 05:52PM

I mean what an absolute shambles this has turned out to be.

Enzokk · 10-12-2018 05:53PM

McGiver wrote: »

Delaying tactic, that's how I read it. There is no other explanation. The problem with this that she can run the clock down to No Deal in this way under the right circumstances i.e. Labour doing nothing and Tories prefer the party over the country.

Yeah, that seems to be it but the accidental no-deal that some have been warning about is now closer than ever because of a stubborn PM. She is hoping that others will not harm themselves as much as she is willing to by taking it to the wire. What a farce.

McGiver · 10-12-2018 05:55PM

https://twitter.com/cbicarolyn/status/1072161702781878274

Today's delay of the Brexit vote is yet another blow for companies desperate for clarity. Investment plans have been paused for two and a half years. Unless a deal is agreed quickly, the country risks sliding towards a national crisis.

Surely, that's Project Fear. Full steam ahead! We've had enough of experts CBI etc.

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-12-2018 06:03PM

A lot of criticism for May, understandably, but I think Corbyn has been just as bad.

https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/1072157212041248768

We have a situation where the UK party of government is making it up as it goes along, propped up by a party that says it has no confidence in the leader yet is continuing a confidence and supply arrangement, and an opposition leader who chides the PM by saying renegotiation is impossible, before saying in the next breath he will go over there and renegotiate a deal without a backstop.

If this had been written as fiction ten years ago it would have been dismissed as too far-fetched to be taken seriously. This is now the reality we are living in.

Enzokk · 10-12-2018 06:06PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A lot of criticism for May, understandably, but I think Corbyn has been just as bad.

We have a situation where the UK party of government is making it up as it goes along, propped up by a party that says it has no confidence in the leader yet is continuing a confidence and supply arrangement, and an opposition leader who chides the PM by saying renegotiation is impossible, before saying in the next breath he will go over there and renegotiate a deal without a backstop.

If this had been written as fiction ten years ago it would have been dismissed as too far-fetched to be taken seriously. This is now the reality we are living in.

Corbyn has a talking point and he is not going off it. He wants the chance to negotiate himself as PM so that is why he is talking about a renegotiation. He is not very good at thinking on his feet and is just repeating the Labour policy keywords.

As for Theresa May, she just said that her deal would not leave the UK worse off than right now, which is not true according to most projections. Even her own government projections shows they will be worse off with any deal but she lied again.

blanch152 · 10-12-2018 06:10PM

Rjd2 wrote: »

May has had a bad day (no **** sherlock) but so far and despite some fine politicians questioning her, I don't think any of them have landed a knock out blow to her which is odd as its not as if they don't have much material to work with.

The problem for her opponents is that while they can combine to oppose her deal, they are completely divided on which alternative they prefer.

DOCARCH · 10-12-2018 06:19PM

Tommie Gorman put it so well just now on RTE Radio 1....

DUP have brought, from NI to the HoC, the virus of definitely knowing what you don't want, but not knowing what you want.

:P

Professor Moriarty · 10-12-2018 06:19PM

As May's premiership crumbles beneath her feet with such publicl humiliation, I can't help but have some sympathy for a fellow human being. As for a Tory prime minister, I couldn't give a damn.

Frank Bullitt · 10-12-2018 06:22PM

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1072178666413719552

Early signs that this is where we are headed?

Even at that, what would a second ref actually do? The place is divided mess.

Thargor · 10-12-2018 06:23PM

Good to hear anyway:

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072129699449589760

Laois_Man · 10-12-2018 06:25PM

Queue a further deterioration of Irish/British relations

Ireland will be required to give its approval to any declaration - unlikely Dublin will agree to the HoC having a veto on the backstop down the line.

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1072176773218078720

McGiver · 10-12-2018 06:43PM

Watching HoC live. TM has repeatedly claimed that the Leave voters all voted for a) no more FOM, b) nor more ECJ, c) no more CU and d) no more SM. Bloody fecking liar.

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-12-2018 07:01PM

If May's strategy is to delay the vote so that it comes down to a stark choice between her deal or no deal, well, in that case I can't wait to see what that means for the next set of polls on Scottish independence.

The Scots, who were told during the independence referendum that they should vote No to independence to safeguard their place in the EU, and who had a 62% Remain vote in the Brexit referendum, are now facing the prospect of either a) May's deal being approved - which sees them leave the EU and watch NI attain a more advantageous position, despite NI not having as high a Remain vote as the Scots - or b) crashing out of the EU in a No Deal Brexit, which would again mean leaving the EU but see a huge hit to the Scottish economy.

Either way, Scotland gets shafted. The case for a new Scottish independence referendum has surely never been higher since 2014.

Rjd2 · 10-12-2018 07:03PM

I was watching this in the background, but did May discuss ejaculation their?:P

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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