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Garda shoots dog in Longford

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    #1082
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    tuxy wrote: »
    Do you think it's the nose of a dog we can see in that image?
    It does look more like that than a persons hand.

    Why does it matter? It's obvious there was a dog there


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    #1083
    Minnie Snuggles
    Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Minnie Snuggles


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Minnie Snuggles wrote:
    There is another possibility, the dog grabbed the detectives tie, the detective fired a shot, missed the dog (either intentionally or unintentionally), bullet ricocheted of the ground grazes travellers leg, dog runs off unharmed, hence no sign of the dog or blood at the scene, the dog could have yelped but was drowned out by hysterical screaming of camera woman.


    Except the guards according to the Indo have found animal blood at the scene and based on formation received are searching for its burial spot.

    Dog or no dog? No DNA needed. Surely the guy in the pickup would be able to confirm if there was a dog or not.

    They threatened the detective, I don't think they would be shy of threatening or intimidating any witnesses.


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    #1084
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Señor Santa Pants wrote: »
    Im glad more AGS are not armed so.

    Aiming for the center of mass gives the best chance of hitting the target.
    If you try to wing or clip someone and you miss then you may hit a
    civilian or another Garda or DF. Warning shots also carry a risk. What goes up must come down. As far as I know they aren't allowed, maybe Captain Obvious can confirm that. Verbal warnings are obviously required where possible.


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    #1085
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Why does it matter? It's obvious there was a dog there

    It matters because there are still people claiming there was no dog.


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    #1086
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Why does it matter? It's obvious there was a dog there

    An invisible, silent dog.


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    #1087
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,176 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    An invisible, silent dog.


    an invisible silent dog that both the gardai and the guy who was shot refer to more than once. Perhaps they had a shared psychosis experience?


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    #1088
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    An invisible, silent dog.

    He's out of shot, not invisible. Both parties referred to the dog. Could also have been devocalised.

    The only people claiming there was no dog are the criminals. Reports have stated there was animal blood at the scene and from day one have stated a dog was shot.

    Anyone claiming there was no dog is a moron or trolling


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    #1089
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    AGS aren’t instructed to shoot to kill. The training is shoot to stop the threat. The training does focus on centre mass, simply as it’s the largest area.

    The first force option is of course verbal commands. The member in the video used verbals commands, to no avail. The member must decide what force option to next use. That may be use of handcuffs, asp baton, pepper spray, or if in possession of one, a taser. The member must use a force option that meets the minimum of the threat presented to them. For example you wouldn’t be expected to try handcuff someone stabbing at you with a knife. You would escalate your response to meet the threat. This are decsisions made on the fly in volatile circumstances generally, and in this instance he was on his own.

    If they fear for their lives or lives of others they may use their firearm. As makikomi posted about containment shots etc, Gardai are not trained in this. They cannot fire “warning” shots. It would be to the members detriment to stray from his training.

    Use of the firearm must be strictly in preservation of life. The principles of reasonable, necessary & proportionate use of force apply. In this instance, one shot was fired. That seems entirely justifiable. If he had shot more, maybe not so justifiable. The armed member knows he must account for each spent round.

    I’m not entirely sure I understand what you mean by “armed mitigation measures”. I take it to mean warning shots?

    I’m sure some posting here have military training, I don’t. But you can’t apply military tactics and training with Garda use of force. Maybe it’s a matter for Garda authorities to change training to include the use of warning shots etc.

    Thanks for concise post.

    So the AGS do use degrees of force, I was sure they did despite the other poster saying they don't and refering to them as 'rules of engagement'. Thats where my queries came from.

    I agree with the Detectives actions and have stated so earlier in the thread, indicating his actions as justifiable.


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    #1090
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    this will be like the donkey from the The Field


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    #1091
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    Aiming for the center of mass gives the best chance of hitting the target.
    If you try to wing or clip someone and you miss then you may hit a
    civilian or another Garda or DF. Warning shots also carry a risk. What goes up must come down. As far as I know they aren't allowed, maybe Captain Obvious can confirm that. Verbal warnings are obviously required where possible.

    Thanks for the post, I'm aware of all that.


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    #1092
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Señor Santa Pants wrote: »
    Thanks for the post, I'm aware of all that.

    Ok but you said that because of the above or 'all that' you were glad gardai weren't armed. Also the post you said that in clearly indicates you weren't aware of it.


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    #1093
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Perhaps it was a tiger or lion that has a hold of the guards tie. Would make a bit more sense in the context of the weapons discharge.

    Devocalised of course.


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    #1094
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,176 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Señor Santa Pants wrote: »
    Thanks for concise post.

    So the AGS do use degrees of force, I was sure they did despite the other poster saying they don't and refering to them as 'rules of engagement'. Thats where my queries came from.

    I agree with the Detectives actions and have stated so earlier in the thread, indicating his actions as justifiable.


    they dont use degrees of force when it comes to firearms. either they shoot at you or they dont.


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    #1095
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,176 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Perhaps it was a tiger or lion that has a hold of the guards tie. Would make a bit more sense in the context of the weapons discharge.

    Devocalised of course.


    or perhaps you are just trying to stir ****e?


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    #1096
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    Aiming for the center of mass gives the best chance of hitting the target.
    If you try to wing or clip someone and you miss then you may hit a
    civilian or another Garda or DF. Warning shots also carry a risk. What goes up must come down. As far as I know they aren't allowed, maybe Captain Obvious can confirm that. Verbal warnings are obviously required where possible.


    I'm afraid I haven't posted enough in Emergency Services forum to provide further opinion.

    Señor Santa Pants wrote: »
    Thanks for concise post.

    So the AGS do use degrees of force, I was sure they did despite the other poster saying they don't and refering to them as 'rules of engagement'. Thats where my queries came from.


    No I didn't. I said there was no degrees of force with a firearm. There's only one level of force with it.


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    #1097
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Gardaí are "certain" a dog shot dead by an officer during a heated confrontation was buried at a location nearby.


    A specialist Garda team searched an area in Co Longford yesterday after receiving information that led to a "definite line of enquiry" in relation to where the remains of the Alsatian-type dog had allegedly been buried. However, the body of the animal had not been recovered last night, with more searches planned in the coming days.

    "Gardaí are certain that the sergeant who discharged his firearm killed that dog," a senior source said last night. "Gardaí have received information that the dead dog was taken from the scene and buried immediately. An examination of the area where the shooting happened has confirmed that animal blood was found at the scene, but the dog has not been found."


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    #1098
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Ahhh was only an ald fib about the dag boss, me culture.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/body-of-dog-shot-dead-by-garda-in-tense-confrontation-cant-be-found-37600183.html


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    #1099
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    facehugger99 wrote:
    Perhaps it was a tiger or lion that has a hold of the guards tie. Would make a bit more sense in the context of the weapons discharge.


    So you are second guessing the guards actions, ever face a dog attack if you have a weapon you will use it to protect yourself. Saying you wouldn't is bullsh*t.


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    #1100
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    So you are second guessing the guards actions, ever face a dog attack if you have a weapon you will use it to protect yourself. Saying you wouldn't is bullsh*t.

    I'd take my chances with a well fed lion over a German Shepard trained to attack.


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    #1101
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    So you are second guessing the guards actions, ever face a dog attack if you have a weapon you will use it to protect yourself. Saying you wouldn't is bullsh*t.

    I have no doubt. The fact that the dog was invisible and silent would make it all the more frightening in my view.


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    #1102
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I have no doubt. The fact that the dog was invisible and silent would make it all the more frightening in my view.

    I too am invisible to cameras that don't have the lens pointing at me!


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    #1103
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Ned 'Blondie' Stokes (28), also known as Christopher.
    This fncking sh1t man.

    There are only two types of people who have AKAs; artists and criminals.

    And I know which one this guy definitely isn't.


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    #1104
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    facehugger99 wrote:
    I have no doubt. The fact that the dog was invisible and silent would make it all the more frightening in my view.


    You mean the dag was not captured by Mrs Speilberg on camera. Not unheard for dogs particularly of the guarding variety to be trained to be quiet.


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    #1105
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    seamus wrote:
    There are only two types of people who have AKAs; artists and criminals.


    Not sure why but I read AKA as AK-47.


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    #1106
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I have no doubt. The fact that the dog was invisible and silent would make it all the more frightening in my view.

    A guard dog won't make noise as its attacking. It will growl or snarl as a warning. If the warning isn't heeded, that's followed by actions, not sounds.

    I do like the idea of a dog with Predator cloaking abilities though.


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    #1107
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    seamus wrote: »
    This fncking sh1t man.

    There are only two types of people who have AKAs; artists and criminals.

    And I know which one this guy definitely isn't.

    Gives credence to the legend that the little babbas used to be registered under mutiple different names in different registry offices having been just bornt on the side of the road.

    Three sets of dole payments etc per person certainly explains the ability to fund vehicles, holidays etc outside of their "earned" income potential.

    The "rights" people against biometric identification on licences etc. will assure us that this surely cannot be the case.


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    #1108
    dense
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    This whole dog thing is strange to not have appeared or have been heard on the video or been found since is bizarre....

    Yet the guards tie was being pulled by something and I don't think human instinct would pull a tie down in the direction it was being pulled, and keep it in that position. You'd pull it towards you almost perpendicular to the wearer.


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    #1109
    uptothetop
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭uptothetop


    I thought that gards are not allowed to have guns. Do they have weapons?


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    #1110
    uptothetop
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭uptothetop


    dense wrote: »
    This whole dog thing is strange to not have appeared or have been heard on the video or been found since is bizarre....

    Yet the guards tie was being pulled by something and I don't think human instinct would pull a tie down in the direction it was being pulled, and keep it in that position. You'd pull it towards you almost perpendicular to the wearer.

    ok, now I see, that happened in 2015, everyone forgot about that already


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    #1111
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Yes and you would hold the tie much closer to the neck if you wanted to take control of someone.

    The dogs blood has been found now and will be safely held by forensics so it's not really up for debate anymore imo.

    My theory would be the woman shot the video to get evidence of a Garda with his weapon drawn. She deliberately kept the dog out of frame and managed to get the gun going off too which she wouldn't have anticipated.


This discussion has been closed.
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