Would you like to attend a housing protest?

klaaaz wrote: »

Higher it to 56% top marginal rate like in Sweden as Sweden and fellow Nordic countries are where there is proof that this taxation model actually works for all. We have over a million workers earning a pittance under the present capitalist system here, in Sweden their poorest workers under socialism actually have a higher standard of living and this is also true for middle and higher income earners.

So your suggestion is to just hike the 40% marginal rate up by 8? Simple as that? Leave everything else as it is?

klaaaz wrote: »

Gradually. The taxation system needs to be fixed so middle and higher income earners pay more like in Scandi countries. Before readers vent in fury, they should realise that they actually get more back in return and end up saving thousands in the long run. Childcare is a classic example, only 100 quid a month per child in Sweden yet up to 1,200 a month per child here in Ireland. Why say no to that system when it benefits everyone??

I’m all for lower childcare costs but what you’re suggesting is a tough sell. No government is going to want to be the one that introduces tax hikes. Part of the problem with selling it is that higher earners already feel like they don’t benefit much from the level of tax they pay. The coverage of families refusing accommodation infuriates people and the media are working both sides - sob story from a single mother one week, travelers refusing homes the next. Public sentiment on both sides is wearing thin.

Our tax & welfare model is by no means perfect, there’s holes in it for sure. But the underlying issues need to be resolved before a new model can be introduced such as decentralization away from Dublin and an increase in housing supply in desirable areas. Competition for a limited supply of housing is the main issue behind rental costs & house prices.

klaaaz wrote: »

As said, there needs to be education rather than the Herald type sensationalist headlines about tax rises. Higher earners are not having it hard by a long shot, they will not move to many countries in the EU15 as they will be taxed much higher. Your post was going well until your attack on the poorest which will not fix the problems that the middle classes encounter.
A higher tax rate has proven to solve childcare, housing, healthcare and education, the essentials in Scandi countries. More people(yes those beloved middle income earners) are far happy living in those countries than they would here.
Our system favours the wealthy by a mile, it is rather sad that posters here cannot see this rather than rant about the poorest when the poorest if they were killed off tomorrow would not solve any of their affordability problems for the essentials listed.

Where did I attack anyone? All I did was call out the public perception. The worse off feel underresourced and the better off feel overtaxed and the media play off both sides. I didn’t say it was right or wrong one way or another.

klaaaz wrote: »

Ok, the public perception is wrong.

Thing is, in Scandinavia middle and lower income workers live side by side in real quality accommodation with the perks of universal healthcare, 100 quid a month childcare, free education etc. Everyone feels equal with opportunity for all and no class apartheid like here with less crime as a bonus. That is the socialist model we should apply here.

Apartheid! Come on, you’re being extreme and you know it.

Ireland has a reasonably generous welfare system as it is, again I’m not saying it’s perfect but it’s not the ultra capitalist Dickensian class society you’d like to think it is. It’s better than most and worse than some. I don’t agree with complete wealth distribution as you can probably tell as I believe in working hard for what you have. I’m not saying no one on lower incomes works hard, far from it. But I do believe in taking personal responsibility for your situation to a certain extent. If I want children I take stock of my position and plan how many I can afford. But when you see people who can’t afford their own accommodation and you hear the have 4, 5, 6 kids then you have to wonder what’s going on.

If it’s possible to implement the Nordic model in Ireland I’d definitely be interested in seeing a proposal from the government in the next budget but something tells me they won’t go in that direction. In fact I don’t think we’ll be seeing anything of that sort for a long long time.

klaaaz wrote: »

Gradually. The taxation system needs to be fixed so middle and higher income earners pay more like in Scandi countries. Before readers vent in fury, they should realise that they actually get more back in return and end up saving thousands in the long run. Childcare is a classic example, only 100 quid a month per child in Sweden yet up to 1,200 a month per child here in Ireland. Why say no to that system when it benefits everyone??

Your chidlish naivety is just ridiculous.

Its far more complex than simply increasing taxes to be in line with the likes of Sweden.

Have you ever been to any of these "utopian" nordic countries? Have you perhaps noticed there's quite a lot of differences culturally, economically, socially, environmentally etc etc that all together play a huge role in how they are able to operate their specific tax and state services?

For Ireland to do something similar would require radical and sweeping changes at every level of society and to the very fabric of our culture.


It took these countries decades to get to where they are now, we cant simply do it in a few years and that is the major part of the problem. No government is going to commit to such a change, not FF, not FG, not SF, not labour and no not even your likely beloved alphabet soup solidarity brigade.

The reason? Because it would take decades and therefore require getting every single other party on board and to agree to continue implementing these changes as the time it would take would mean the country would go through successive governments before the changes were fully realised and achieved and without every party signing off and agreeing to follow through what would be the point in starting?

And this is ultimately impossible because it would require to start with years of negotiation between them all to first come to such an agreement that would be made up of constant one ups manship and fighting between each of the parties trying to push their own agendas and fight for their own vested special interests of which each party most definitely has.

Then theres getting the people to sign off on such changes which again would require massive societal and cultural shifts that no matter how much you try and paint it as being in everyones benefit is going to be an impossible sell as it is simply not how Irish people think.


The disappointing fact is we as a people are inherently too selfish to be able to make this kind of change to such a system in this day and age, maybe we could have if we started 50-100 years ago like they did, but it is not possible to start now.

Wake up to the reality of the country you live in. If you really think these countries are such a great place to live id advise moving there as Ireland isnt going to become anything like what you want anytime soon.

Well said Vin, time these dreamers and utopians were given a lesson in reality.

The bottom line is these lads seem to think that everyone who is ‘successful’ got there without any effort,sacrifice, hard work,and talent.

Now or course there are those who got there on the backs of their parents but by and large they are few enough.

These lads seem to want the same as everyone else for no effort on their own behalf,it’s a bad attitude from the start and unfortunately is getting more and more prevelant in today’s society.

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Save and work hard like people had to in the past.

That’s life.

And I agree these people need some helping, not people who contribute nothing but want a house with all the trimmings for 40 euro a week.

the only thing is, we re not living in the past, our economies have changed, greatly in some circumstances. its clearly obvious the we ve been experiencing a rapid rise in asset prices, in particular in relation to housing, and relatively low wage inflation, stagnant in some cases, its also important to realise the rise in the precarious nature of many working situations, the ways of the past are not working, we should probably try something different.

maybe the conditions mentioned above are contributing to the outcomes you described?

rusty cole wrote: »

I see DCC paid about 40m for 90+ apartments in Finglas in one complex alone!!at about 100K above market price, lots of them 1 bedroom type, for "homeless" people. can you imagine saving your ass off and getting a loan only to find you're outbid by the council by 100K, so you're still at home and some knacker who never worked a day in their life, is now getting that for free basically.

that's the housing market for you.

rusty cole wrote: »

Just because they cannot free up developers land so they're snatching anything second hand that's going. and fueling the problem ta boot.

that is the option they have been left with due to government failure. the people vote in the government.

rusty cole wrote: »

Working class people who actually work are getting sick to their back teeth with this crack, freeloaders and foreigners exploiting and not embracing the country.

so, what are they doing about it.

rusty cole wrote: »

Many dumb it down in the same way they dumbed town some of what peter Casey had to say but at the polling he was in 2nd place with about 20%.. I'll bet that same 20% are pissed off with this crack too.

because instead of saying there is a problem with some people, some people tend to generalise about whole groups of people. when that happens, it's not surprising people dum it down.

rusty cole wrote: »

the country is rotting while the varadkar expresses opposition "doth protest too much", then goes home has a **** to his Justin Trudeau poster and heads off with the girls to eat for free on Kylie Minogue!!!

lovely, a bit of old stereotyping of a gay man.

klaaaz wrote: »

You can moan all you want, the vast majority of moaners of the snobby kind will never live in Finglas and in a 1 bed apt so it's a non-issue really.

From what I've read, it was €35m for a mix of apartments and houses.

But I have to say that yourself and EOTR show your ignorance in how were so quick to brush off what looked to be massively overpaying by DCC.

And you wonder why people are opposed to higher taxes in this country.... As several people explained to you yesterday, the Administration in this country is staggeringly bad at getting value for taxpayers' money.

It should be blindingly obvious to you that it would be better for DCC to acquire them at a more reasonable price. The price paid is far from a non-issue.

klaaaz wrote: »

Ok, the public perception is wrong.

Thing is, in Scandinavia middle and lower income workers live side by side in real quality accommodation with the perks of universal healthcare, 100 quid a month childcare, free education etc. Everyone feels equal with opportunity for all and no class apartheid like here with less crime as a bonus. That is the socialist model we should apply here.

In Scandanavia lower and middle income workers contribute a decent percentage through income tax, in this country it's considered a political death wish to suggest such a thing.

It should be blindingly obvious to you that it would be better for DCC to acquire them at a more reasonable price. The price paid is far from a non-issue.

no it would be better for DCC to build their own housing stock! Total idiocy! What DCC brilliant idea, buy it for a fortune and give it away again for a song in a few years? :rolleyes:

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I see lovely apartments been handed out like candy to our poor vulnerable members of society today in D24!!!

Working couples could only dream of such luxuries.

Unequal society is right just not the way Richard Boyd Barrett waffles on about.

That is hilarious. Because most of the right wingers on here would say they wouldn't live in D24 if you paid them.

Lots have said they can't afford to buy a house in Dublin today and when houses in D24 say they wouldn't live there.

So what exactly are you ranting about?