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Ulster Bank League 2018-2019 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

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    #632
    Limerick 37.5
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Limerick 37.5


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Clubs well aware that AIL needs modernising but when terms are dictated to you rathet than discussed with you then there is a problem. Clubs want discusion and want to be involved in the discussions to allow and implement change. The union up to now say this is the proposal take it or leave it. Any decision effecting the senior clubs should involve open and frank conversations not bring in one club at a time and tell them what to do and this is the way it will be. I beleive you are beleiving what is been put out there by the spin doctors in that the clubs are blocking progress? Clubs want progress but want tio be part of and involved in the discussions required to facilatate progress.

    USA trips are cost neutral for all provinces USA paying for them so again thinking the Union will take a financial hit for this is again another bit of fake news as they say

    The Clubs will not make a decision that is the point exactly, they are incapable of making a decision, as each club has its own agenda. The challenges facing clubs differ from province to province and from club to club. The IRFU require meaningful rugby for players, they put a plan out there, it was rejected by the Clubs. Did the Clubs come back with an alternative, not to my knowledge. So the Clubs say No, we want dialogue but have not put forward a plan.
    As for the USA trip, point here is that it is not sustainable, so the IRFU require a solution and that comes back to AIL rugby, the clubs need to provide a solution to the IRFU otherwise the IRFU will impose theirs. Call it fake news if you wish, I would refer to it as reality


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    #633
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Looks like a lot of the Leinster senior cup games scheduled for recently were conceded.
    Terenure gave walkover to Belvedere, Navan conceded to Lansdowne and Wanderers gave game to Wesley.


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    #634
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    Limerick 37.5 wrote: »
    The Clubs will not make a decision that is the point exactly, they are incapable of making a decision, as each club has its own agenda. The challenges facing clubs differ from province to province and from club to club. The IRFU require meaningful rugby for players, they put a plan out there, it was rejected by the Clubs. Did the Clubs come back with an alternative, not to my knowledge. So the Clubs say No, we want dialogue but have not put forward a plan.
    As for the USA trip, point here is that it is not sustainable, so the IRFU require a solution and that comes back to AIL rugby, the clubs need to provide a solution to the IRFU otherwise the IRFU will impose theirs. Call it fake news if you wish, I would refer to it as reality

    Reality is you said IRFU would take a financial hit, they will not! so not true. Also clubs have been in negotation whith Union thru different divisonal reps as they are aware there are diiferent agendas for different clubs throughout the country when Union announced American deal which is a real slap in the face to clubs. Provinces have made it clear that they want more A games for their players like B&I cup and want an expanded Celtic Cup. IRFU's wanted to parachute in 8 professionals into AIL without the need to train with or be part of the 1a and 1b clubs which would really only benefit 2 provinces and pi** off non professional players and benefit no club when Celtic Cup or hybrid version of same is expanded. It was at best a temporary measure of no benefit to clubs end possibly detremental to what the club game is all about The union and provinces have their own agendas which is fine but using the clubs and throwing them to one side when they don't need them is no good for clubs. Scottish Rugby for example have set up a semi pro league and are financailly supporting it and getting free anaylitical soft ware for clubs. The IRFU said they would not put money into clubs here but wanted 8 clubs to do it for them but if you signed up they would want a gurantee that when players became available they would be automatically picked in the position the union or province wanted. Basically they were trying to take control of clubs without any financial assistance and no plan for what would happen when provincal A games or other solutions such as American games were found. Solution is complex and needs both parties to agree not one dictating to the other. People often said that if the clubs diidn't like it they should fix it as they are the union but when they tried it becme very clear who runs the union and people still give out because one is a large professional outfit with PR professionals the other is a group of volunteers doing their best for their clubs.


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    #635
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Limerick 37.5 wrote: »
    It seems to be the norm here to post the easy negative comment regarding the IRFU not interested in the AIL. I would argue that the IRFU are very interested in the AIL but unfortunately the clubs need to wake up and evolve and realise the AIL in its current structure does not provide the meaningful rugby required for players on the fringes of professional rugby. The IRFU came with a proposal and the clubs shot it down because each one as their own vested interests and not the interest of rugby as a whole. The reality is that the IRFU do not have the finances in the medium term to bankroll tournaments for A players in the USA but are willing to take the short term financial pain in order for the Clubs to see the light.

    The IRFU proposal involved relegating and promoting teams to set up the league based on their province to get a 2,2,2,2 split and ring fencing that for a while. What leinster or munster club is going to accept that? You're asking them to accept a proposal that odds are would lead to them being dropped out of the division they worked their arses off to get to and locked out because they're the 3rd best team in their province, to highlight this in theory you either a) top the regular table but lose the semi and be relegated or b) come 3rd and win the league and be relegated if everything aligned funny depending on how they picked the best 2, that's ridiculous.

    You then have the whole being given provincial players thing, you'd end up with a mix of teams being relegated and to rub salt into the wounds being gutted as their contracted players are moved to a top division team and not unrealistic possibility where you could end up in 4/5 years right where we are now with no Ulster or Connacht teams in the top division so their contracted players would either be playing lower down or not at all and we'd have history repeat itself.

    The whole proposal was a complete **** show and wasn't a good option for clubs and the clubs aren't really in any sort of position to be taking anymore hits as is.


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    #636
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    A major issue is the IRFU are looking at things treating every senior club in the country as the same when you cant. You cant compare division 1A clubs to division 2C clubs and you cant compare Limerick to Dublin clubs and you cant compare division 1A Dublin clubs to Division 2C Dublin clubs.
    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Clubs well aware that AIL needs modernising but when terms are dictated to you rathet than discussed with you then there is a problem. Clubs want discusion and want to be involved in the discussions to allow and implement change. The union up to now say this is the proposal take it or leave it. Any decision effecting the senior clubs should involve open and frank conversations not bring in one club at a time and tell them what to do and this is the way it will be. I beleive you are beleiving what is been put out there by the spin doctors in that the clubs are blocking progress? Clubs want progress but want tio be part of and involved in the discussions required to facilatate progress.

    USA trips are cost neutral for all provinces USA paying for them so again thinking the Union will take a financial hit for this is again another bit of fake news as they say
    There is an element of that but there's plenty of clubs who only want to see their own interests protected and feck everything else and that can be said for division 1A as well as divisions 2B/C clubs.
    D14Rugby wrote: »
    The IRFU proposal involved relegating and promoting teams to set up the league based on their province to get a 2,2,2,2 split and ring fencing that for a while. What leinster or munster club is going to accept that? You're asking them to accept a proposal that odds are would lead to them being dropped out of the division they worked their arses off to get to and locked out because they're the 3rd best team in their province, to highlight this in theory you either a) top the regular table but lose the semi and be relegated or b) come 3rd and win the league and be relegated if everything aligned funny depending on how they picked the best 2, that's ridiculous.

    You then have the whole being given provincial players thing, you'd end up with a mix of teams being relegated and to rub salt into the wounds being gutted as their contracted players are moved to a top division team and not unrealistic possibility where you could end up in 4/5 years right where we are now with no Ulster or Connacht teams in the top division so their contracted players would either be playing lower down or not at all and we'd have history repeat itself.

    The whole proposal was a complete **** show and wasn't a good option for clubs and the clubs aren't really in any sort of position to be taking anymore hits as is.
    The idea was right but limiting it to 8 probably wasnt the right idea. It should have been adapted more to the size of each province and ability of the clubs within the provinces. Leinster/Munster and possibly Ulster could have more than 2 semi pro sides while Connacht would only be able to have 2. Allowing a ring fencing of that would have been far better. Though that would have meant change to 10 team league structure at the top
    Yes there would be issues with what if Ulster/Connacht teams get relegated where do players go but then again when Connacht dropped clubs to division 2 they had some players in academy move to play club rugby in Dublin/Limerick at different stages or players stayed with those clubs if theyd came from outside the province.


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    #637
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Looks like a lot of the Leinster senior cup games scheduled for recently were conceded.
    Terenure gave walkover to Belvedere, Navan conceded to Lansdowne and Wanderers gave game to Wesley.

    A number of the clubs wanted to double up games with AIL and weren't allowed. Busy season as is no surprise they didn't want additional games.


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    #638
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    A number of the clubs wanted to double up games with AIL and weren't allowed. Busy season as is no surprise they didn't want additional games.
    Shame and very busy season as you say. Not sure how you change that. Doubling up would have made sense. Poor form to not allow doubling up of gams


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    #639
    stellenbosch
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭stellenbosch


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Shame and very busy season as you say. Not sure how you change that. Doubling up would have made sense. Poor form to not allow doubling up of gams

    Tarf Trinity exactly the same-thats all four qtr finals that were ditched-the Leinster Branch really need to take a good hard look at them selves..now apparently they want the semi finals - who ever is in them!-to play ob 22nd Dec-after 4 consecutive rounds of AIL-beam me up!


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    #640
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    I understand the desire to have a competitive competition in Leinster from the branch point of view but it just isn't going to happen. At best clubs will field weakened teams.


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    #641
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    stellenbosch wrote: »
    Tarf Trinity exactly the same-thats all four qtr finals that were ditched-the Leinster Branch really need to take a good hard look at them selves..now apparently they want the semi finals - who ever is in them!-to play ob 22nd Dec-after 4 consecutive rounds of AIL-beam me up!
    But Branch are....
    clubs need to look at things as well. Semis on 22nd is madness and
    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    I understand the desire to have a competitive competition in Leinster from the branch point of view but it just isn't going to happen. At best clubs will field weakened teams.
    All depends on timing in season. Problem with 18 round leagues. Was different when division 2 was 15 games so those clubs could play earlier rounds and then add division 1 clubs earlier. If you put incentives on finishing places in early season league cup/shield as entry to cup then maybe it might help.


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    #642
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    I can't see any time during the season the way it is structured now that players/coaches would be interested in having it.


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    #643
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    But Branch are....
    clubs need to look at things as well. Semis on 22nd is madness and
    All depends on timing in season. Problem with 18 round leagues. Was different when division 2 was 15 games so those clubs could play earlier rounds and then add division 1 clubs earlier. If you put incentives on finishing places in early season league cup/shield as entry to cup then maybe it might help.

    Yeah plus 3/5 Leinster League Games, QF, Semi & Final of Senior Cup if lucky enough to get that far plus succesful club onto Bateman with Semi & Possible final and if get to final of Ail an additional 2 games plus Irish universites, club & 7s making provincial competitions increasingly pointless for senior clubs especially when the top clubs only play each other in all those competitions anyway so radical solutions required


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    #644
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    Yeah plus 3/5 Leinster League Games, QF, Semi & Final of Senior Cup if lucky enough to get that far plus succesful club onto Bateman with Semi & Possible final and if get to final of Ail an additional 2 games plus Irish universites, club & 7s making provincial competitions increasingly pointless for senior clubs especially when the top clubs only play each other in all those competitions anyway so radical solutions required
    Very hard to see radical solutions happening coming from either side as well.

    Anyway Bateman Cup draw made. Armagh representing Ulster though Cup not finished.

    BATEMAN CUP SEMI-FINALS: Saturday, January 12
    CITY OF ARMAGH v BUCCANEERS or CORINTHIANS, Palace Grounds, 2.30pm
    GARRYOWEN v LANSDOWNE, Dooradoyle, 2.30pm


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    #645
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    This weekends games
    1A
    Friday
    Lansdowne v Terenure College
    Garryowen v Young Munster
    Saturday
    Dublin University v Shannon
    UCC v Clontarf
    UCD v Cork Con
    1B
    Ballynahinch v Banbridge
    Armagh V Old Belvedere
    Malone v Naas
    Old Wesley v Ballymena
    St Marys v Buccaneers


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    #646
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    Friday
    Lansdowne v Terenure College - Expecting a big back to the wall performance from Terenure

    Garryowen v Young Munster - Should be a great game, I think Garryowen might edge it

    Saturday
    Dublin University v Shannon - 2 young teams bound to be loads of running rugby and for the neutral would be a great game to get to. Going with Trinity.

    UCC v Clontarf - Tarf will have too much artillery up front for UCC in my opinion.

    UCD v Cork Con - UCD need to be at full strength to challenge Con and sadly I don't think they will be anywhere near it this week

    1B
    Ballynahinch v Banbridge - Great local derby - fancy Banbridge to sneak the away win
    Armagh V Old Belvedere - difficult away trip - Armagh
    Malone v Naas - Naas to keep winning
    Old Wesley v Ballymena - Wesley should win well
    St Marys v Buccaneers - Not sure on this - form suggests Marys but I am going to pick Buccaneers


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    #647
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Far too lazy to drive to Limerick tonight....
    Lansdowne won 41-12 and Garryowen beat Munsters


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    #648
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/42995.php#.W_mTa-j7TIU


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    #649
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    1A
    Saturday
    Clontarf v Cork Con
    Shannon v Lansdowne
    Terenure v Garryowen
    Young Munster v UCD
    UCC v Dublin University
    1B
    Saturday
    Old Wesley v Ballynahinch
    Ballymena v Old Belvedere
    Banbridge v Malone
    Buccaneers v Armagh
    Naas v St Marys
    2A
    Friday
    Cashel v UL Bohs
    Old Crescent v Nenagh
    Saturday
    Dolphin v Blackrock
    Highfield v Galwegians
    Navan v Queens University
    2B
    Saturday
    Corinthians v MU Barnhall
    Greystones v Sundays Well
    Rainey Old Boys v Belfast Harlequins
    Skerries v Sligo
    Wanderers v Dungannon
    2C
    Saturday
    Ballina v Midleton
    Bruff v Omagh
    City Of Derry v Thomond
    Seapoint v Bangor
    Tullamore v Malahide


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    #650
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Saw St Mary's are just building a pedestrian entrance to their grounds and I realised it was their first one, got me thinking, are there and ground regulations for the AIL, other than pitch size and enclosure?


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    #651
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Saw St Mary's are just building a pedestrian entrance to their grounds and I realised it was their first one, got me thinking, are there and ground regulations for the AIL, other than pitch size and enclosure?
    There is i think. The AIL regulations are on irishrugby.ie probably listed in that?


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    #652
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Saw St Mary's are just building a pedestrian entrance to their grounds and I realised it was their first one, got me thinking, are there and ground regulations for the AIL, other than pitch size and enclosure?

    I'd say it's more health and safety code rather than league mandated.

    I'm not familiar with any other regulations outside of pitch size, would be interesting to know if there's anything in terms of capacity for the first division etc.


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    #653
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    I'd say it's more health and safety code rather than league mandated.

    I'm not familiar with any other regulations outside of pitch size, would be interesting to know if there's anything in terms of capacity for the first division etc.

    Just had a quick look on the IRFU's site and can't see anything, some booklets for suggestions for things a club might need alright but no ground regulations bar technical area stuff.

    Just to be completely clear my original point was in no way a dig at mary's, I think they probably have one of the better set ups around, my brain just went on a bit of a tangent when I was thinking about ground improvements and the variation you get in quality of grounds in the league and how some teams would be in trouble if you did introduce the sort of ground regulations they have in football, number of seats, car spaces, wheelchair spots, etc


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    #654
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Just had a quick look on the IRFU's site and can't see anything, some booklets for suggestions for things a club might need alright but no ground regulations bar technical area stuff.

    Just to be completely clear my original point was in no way a dig at mary's, I think they probably have one of the better set ups around, my brain just went on a bit of a tangent when I was thinking about ground improvements and the variation you get in quality of grounds in the league and how some teams would be in trouble if you did introduce the sort of ground regulations they have in football, number of seats, car spaces, wheelchair spots, etc
    Marys do probably have one of best set ups around. Cork Con, Garryowen, Corinthians would be up there as well.
    I think there is something available to clubs as in a club facilities/event guide but not easily accessible on the website.


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    #655
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Marys do probably have one of best set ups around. Cork Con, Garryowen, Corinthians would be up there as well.
    I think there is something available to clubs as in a club facilities/event guide but not easily accessible on the website.

    There are guides online but they're fairly standard things like "recommended to have showers and changing rooms and a social room" no actual regulations


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    #656
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Just 2 games tonight in 2A Crescent Nenagh and Cashel Bohs
    Rest 2.30pm tomorrow.


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    #657
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    1A
    Saturday
    Clontarf v Cork Con - 1 v 2 Should be a cracker of a match and so little between the teams - Fancy Con to snatch it

    Shannon v Lansdowne 5 years since we have played Shannon in the AIL. Been very impressed with Shannon so far. Hayes clearly doing an excellent job

    Terenure v Garryowen Garryowen settled the ship last week with a great win last week against Munsters. Hard to see Terenure beating them given recent form

    Young Munster v UCD Munsters team looks strong this week but I still think it will be very close. UCD seem to a bit erratic but may surprise everyone with an away win

    UCC v Dublin University UCC seem to be playing well but not closing the deal whilst Trinity have been knocking the lights out. Think that tend will continue.
    1B

    Old Wesley v Ballynahinch - Old Wesley went well last week and think that will be the case again
    Ballymena v Old Belvedere - Time for Belvo to win up north
    Banbridge v Malone - Banbridge to make home advantage pay
    Buccaneers v Armagh - Armagh to win
    Naas v St Marys - Naas by a sliver


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    #658
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    tonights results
    Cashel 24 UL Bohs 20
    Old Crescent 29 Nenagh 15


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    #659
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    All results
    1A
    Clontarf 13 Cork Con 16
    Shannon 15 Lansdowne 32
    Terenure 16 Garryowen 17
    Young Munster 34 UCD 34
    UCC 28 Dublin University 14
    1B
    Old Wesley 16 Ballynahinch 27
    Ballymena 28 Old Belvedere 14
    Banbridge 21 Malone 11
    Buccaneers 24 Armagh 17
    Naas 8 St Marys 23
    2A
    Dolphin 20 Blackrock 16
    Highfield 40 Galwegians 19
    Navan 24 Queens University 17
    2B
    Corinthians 7 MU Barnhall 18
    Greystones 53 Sundays Well 17
    Rainey Old Boys 10 Belfast Harlequins 7
    Skerries 19 Sligo 27
    Wanderers 28 Dungannon 3
    2C
    Ballina 29 Midleton 20
    Bruff 23 Omagh 17
    City Of Derry 19 Thomond 13
    Seapoint 10 Bangor 12
    Tullamore 16 Malahide 12


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    #660
    realhorrorshow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    Very possible that there will be 4 Connacht teams in 2B next season.


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    #661
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    realhorrorshow wrote: »
    Very possible that there will be 4 Connacht teams in 2B next season.
    Possible but i dont think it'll happen and hopefully not.

    2 rounds for everyone before christmas break and we'll be at half way point in the league.


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