Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

PlaneSpeeking · 04-12-2018 12:47PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fairness there are a few things the settled community could learn from the traveller community.

1) The family unit comes first - and is it is even stronger bond as it is not 'manufactured'

2) The large family unit looks after its own - through thick and thin

3) The older people in the traveller community are treated with respect.

All old values which I feel are slowly dying for the sake of 'modern Ireland' and so called 'progress'.

People seem to forget the positive points in the rest of the noise.

And that makes up for what they do to the rest of the aged population ??????

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 12:48PM

blanch152 wrote: »

They were not positive aspects of traveller culture.

The traveller notion of family is based around a purely heterosexual model, in many ways nearly an identikit replica of the Catholic family morality. Such a model is no longer considered by any decent society to be positive.

You see that is your agenda your viewpoint.
I do not consider myself a Catholic but you are just refusing to see positive aspects of the religion.
Which in fairness to them are rarely highlighted it is much easier to stick with the narrative that they are backward etc etc.
It is more then a bit blinkered.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 04-12-2018 12:49PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fairness there are a few things the settled community could learn from the traveller community.

1) The family unit comes first - and is it is even stronger bond as it is not 'manufactured'

Why are family bonds in Traveller culture any stronger or less "manufactured" than family bonds among settled people? You seem to be proposing that Traveller family bonds are somehow more authentic than settled people's family bonds. Why? Any evidence for this?

2) The large family unit looks after its own - through thick and thin

That tradition of extended family solidarity extends to a tradition of violent feuding with rival families as well as a history of consanguineous marriage that creates a host of health problems.

3) The older people in the traveller community are treated with respect.

Like Bernard McGliney, a 63-year-old grandfather gunned down by his own nephew at a family wedding?

All old values which I feel are slowly dying for the sake of 'modern Ireland' and so called 'progress'.

Nice pair of rose-tinted glasses you've got there.

But seriously ... it takes some contortion of reality to represent Travellers as the preservers of the "old values" that are being lost in modern Ireland.

Do the "old values" include disregard for education, organized crime, tax evasion, wrecking pubs and hotels, violent feuding, bare-knuckle brawling, marrying off 16-year-old girls to their cousins so they can give birth to a 7-a-side football team by their mid-20s, pulling publicity stunts in the media in pursuit of a free "foreva home," and then rejecting said foreva home if it isn't close to one's mother's grave or doesn't have a stable for one's horses? How about living in 100,000-euro camper vans while claiming social welfare, or beating the crap out of amateur football referees?

These are the kinds of "values" that people see on show from the Travelling community. They are nothing to wax lyrical about.

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 12:57PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And that makes up for what they do to the rest of the aged population ??????

Firstly, I know the criminal element of the traveller community is higher then the non-traveller population.
You are implying there that 100% of travellers engage/enraged in crime.
At least 85% do not so that is unfair on the law abiding travellers.

This is where I see it as wrong that all travellers are seen as one great big crime gang by non-travellers.
What I do see as wrong though is that traveller representatives rarely admonish other travellers for illegal behavior.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 04-12-2018 12:59PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Two parents working to pay for someone else (a creche) to bring up thier kids.
Then mostly only get 'quality time' at weekends.
They are 'part-time parents' with full time jobs.

Now you are attacking working parents for having "manufactured" relationships with their children, and being "part-time parents," all while praising Travellers for maintaining the "old values."

Who do you think pays for the Traveller lifestyle? Where do you think Margaret Cash's €50,000 a year in welfare comes from? Who will be providing her with her "foreva home" in an area of her choosing?

It all comes out of the pockets of the same working taxpayers you're scorning here.

lawred2 · 04-12-2018 12:59PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Firstly, I know the criminal element of the traveller community is higher then the non-traveller population.
You are implying there that 100% of travellers engage/enraged in crime.
At least 85% do not so that is unfair on the law abiding travellers.

This is where I see it as wrong that all travellers are seen as one great big crime gang by non-travellers.
What I do see as wrong though is that traveller representatives rarely admonish other travellers for illegal behavior.

is that true?

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 01:00PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Why are family bonds in Traveller culture any stronger or less "manufactured" than family bonds among settled people? You seem to be proposing that Traveller family bonds are somehow more authentic than settled people's family bonds. Why? Any evidence for this?

That tradition of extended family solidarity extends to a tradition of violent feuding with rival families as well as a history of consanguineous marriage that creates a host of health problems.

Like Bernard McGliney, a 63-year-old grandfather gunned down by his own nephew at a family wedding?

Nice pair of rose-tinted glasses you've got there.

But seriously ... it takes some contortion of reality to represent Travellers as the preservers of the "old values" that are being lost in modern Ireland.

Do the "old values" include disregard for education, organized crime, tax evasion, wrecking pubs and hotels, violent feuding, bare-knuckle brawling, marrying off 16-year-old girls to their cousins so they can give birth to a 7-a-side football team by their mid-20s, pulling publicity stunts in the media in pursuit of a free "foreva home," and then rejecting said foreva home if it isn't close to one's mother's grave or doesn't have a stable for one's horses? How about living in 100,000-euro camper vans while claiming social welfare, or beating the crap out of amateur football referees?

These are the kinds of "values" that people see on show from the Travelling community. They are nothing to wax lyrical about.

There is crime in all communities, I will not list the number of murders in Ireland, gang violence caused by non-travellers etc etc.
Because that is the going down the same route as this 'whataboutery' as I was chastised for when it suited.

There are travellers who stick to good solid principles/values and there are travellers who do not.
Simple as that.

Squatter · 04-12-2018 01:01PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Firstly, I know the criminal element of the traveller community is higher then the non-traveller population.
You are implying there that 100% of travellers engage/enraged in crime.

At least 85% do not so that is unfair on the law abiding travellers.

What I do see as wrong though is that traveller representatives rarely admonish other travellers for illegal behavior.

So how many of that 85% (I assume you have a source for that figure?) of what you describe as "law abiding" members of the ethnical group are the beneficiaries of the crimes carried out by others?

Gravelly · 04-12-2018 01:02PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Firstly, I know the criminal element of the traveller community is higher then the non-traveller population.
You are implying there that 100% of travellers engage/enraged in crime.
At least 85% do not so that is unfair on the law abiding travellers.

This is where I see it as wrong that all travellers are seen as one great big crime gang by non-travellers.
What I do see as wrong though is that traveller representatives rarely admonish other travellers for illegal behavior.

Not saying you are right or wrong, but do you have a basis for this figure?

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 01:02PM

lawred2 wrote: »

is that true?

When you look at the crime figures it is someone else quoted around 15% of travllers are involved in crime which is way higher then the settled community etc etc.
Don't have the exact figure - somewhere on this thread.
But you get my point.

SusieBlue · 04-12-2018 01:05PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think you know exactly what I mean, the non-traveller community are more inclined to have 2.5 kids.

Two parents working to pay for someone else (a creche) to bring up thier kids.
Then mostly only get 'quality time' at weekends.
They are 'part-time parents' with full time jobs.
But that is the way society at large in Ireland has gone now and it is viewed as the norm.

Having 7/8/9+ kids you cannot afford and cannot look after is something NO ONE should aspire.
It isn't in the best interests of the children who are born into those situations and it isn't in the best interest of society, who have to pay for it.

Its actually extremely disappointing to see someone criticise and demean the average working person in this country, I'm sure the vast majority of them would prefer to work fewer hours and see more of their children but unfortunately, if we all lived like travellers with our hand out the whole time, the entire country would collapse.

The children in these "manufactured" families will most likely finish their education and be future members of the work force, and their taxes will pay for Margarets children to embrace their culture, they'll be able to break the law, sit on their arses, and marry their cousins.
Instead of judging them you should be grateful that there are still people out there raising their children with morals and respect for the law.

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 01:05PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Now you are attacking working parents for having "manufactured" relationships with their children, and being "part-time parents," all while praising Travellers for maintaining the "old values."

Who do you think pays for the Traveller lifestyle? Where do you think Margaret Cash's €50,000 a year in welfare comes from? Who will be providing her with her "foreva home" in an area of her choosing?

It all comes out of the pockets of the same working taxpayers you're scorning here.

Working taxpayers they may be.
And I know well thier taxes pay for the likes of Cash.
But those working parents are in reality 'part time parents'.
Which cannot be accused of Cash for all her other obvious faults.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 04-12-2018 01:05PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There is crime in all communities

Ah, the "but settled people do it too" defence.

There is far more crime emanating from Traveller communities. How else do you explain the fact that 0.6 percent of the population is so consistently in the news for their criminal activity?

Approximately one Irishman in every 200 is a Traveller, but approximately one male prisoner in every 10 is a Traveller.

Do you not see the problem here?

lawred2 · 04-12-2018 01:06PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Working taxpayers they may be.
And I know well thier taxes pay for the likes of Cash.
But those working parents are in reality 'part time parents'.
Which cannot be accused of Cash for all her other obvious faults.

what's with the asshole act?

part time parents?

cop on to yourself

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 01:09PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Working taxpayers they may be.
And I know well thier taxes pay for the likes of Cash.
But those working parents are in reality 'part time parents'.
Which cannot be accused of Cash for all her other obvious faults.

and yet these "part time parents" seem to be doing a much better job than the full timers like Cash if you look at the number who complete school, have jobs and dont get involved in crime.

blanch152 · 04-12-2018 01:10PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Working taxpayers they may be.
And I know well thier taxes pay for the likes of Cash.
But those working parents are in reality 'part time parents'.
Which cannot be accused of Cash for all her other obvious faults.

Margaret Cash is a better parent than working parents?

Come off it. That is by far the stupidest argument made in defending the woman.

Robbing Pennys is a better example for your kids than holding down a job?
Posting vile insults about their father on Facebook is better than both parents respecting each other?
Getting evicted from accommodation is better than providing a steady roof over their heads?

Are you in anyway serious?

KrustyUCC · 04-12-2018 01:10PM

Working parents are 'part time parents'

Wow!!

That's some sentiment

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 04-12-2018 01:11PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Working taxpayers they may be.
And I know well thier taxes pay for the likes of Cash.
But those working parents are in reality 'part time parents'.
Which cannot be accused of Cash for all her other obvious faults.

The likes of Cash should be happy that these parents are getting up in the morning, kissing their kids goodbye, and heading off to their jobs. Otherwise there would be no €50,000 a year for her and no free foreva home.

Honestly, what do you think the country would be like if everyone tried to live like Margaret Cash?

Trigger Happy · 04-12-2018 01:13PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Working taxpayers they may be.
And I know well thier taxes pay for the likes of Cash.
But those working parents are in reality 'part time parents'.
Which cannot be accused of Cash for all her other obvious faults.

You are saying the Ms Cash is a better parent then working law abiding people ?

You’re off your head!

KrustyUCC · 04-12-2018 01:13PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

The likes of Cash should be happy that these parents are getting up in the morning, kissing their kids goodbye, and heading off to their jobs. Otherwise there would be no €50,000 a year for her and no free foreva home.

Honestly, what do you think the country would be like if everyone tried to live like Margaret Cash?

Many having to commute hours to work as they had to buy where they could afford

Some contrast to Cash needing her home forever in Tallaght

blanch152 · 04-12-2018 01:15PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You see that is your agenda your viewpoint.
I do not consider myself a Catholic but you are just refusing to see positive aspects of the religion.
Which in fairness to them are rarely highlighted it is much easier to stick with the narrative that they are backward etc etc.
It is more then a bit blinkered.

Not a bit blinkered.

You see marrying a second cousin as a positive example to society, I don't.
You see gay men being forced into heterosexual marriage as supporting family values, I don't.
You see girls being married off at 15 and 16 as being normal, I don't.

Those are the "positive" family values of Traveller culture. Well, excuse me if I don't agree.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 04-12-2018 01:15PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think you know exactly what I mean, the non-traveller community are more inclined to have 2.5 kids.

Two parents working to pay for someone else (a creche) to bring up thier kids.
Then mostly only get 'quality time' at weekends.
They are 'part-time parents' with full time jobs.
But that is the way society at large in Ireland has gone now and it is viewed as the norm.

Maybe respectable people wouldn’t have to be “part time parents” if they weren’t bursting themselves to pay for irresponsible self entitled scrotes, who pop out child after child they can’t look after? Maybe if the government made it worthwhile for people to work and support themselves, it would be easier for one parent to stay at home with the children but sadly that’s not how it is. Someone’s gotta pay for The Travellers new hiace

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 01:16PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Having 7/8/9+ kids you cannot afford and cannot look after is something NO ONE should aspire.
It isn't in the best interests of the children who are born into those situations and it isn't in the best interest of society, who have to pay for it.

Its actually extremely disappointing to see someone criticise and demean the average working person in this country, I'm sure the vast majority of them would prefer to work fewer hours and see more of their children but u

It is true ideally people should not have 7/8/9 kids if they cannot afford it.
But the majority of non-travellers try to juggle both parenting and working.
They then work thier @rses off for someone else to raise thier kids.
I find it a strange contradiction.
Ideally I think there should be full-time parenting rather then the pretense of parenting which has now become accepted
It has become the strange social norm.

If non-traveller parents have to get two jobs and pay for someone else to look after thier kids for thier formative years should they be really having them?
It is the worst of both worlds work your @rses off so someone else does the parenting for you?

But that is just my personal opinion I find it odd when you really think about it.
In contrast, the likes of Maragaret Cash sees herself as a mother first.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 04-12-2018 01:20PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Those are the "positive" family values of Traveller culture. Well, excuse me if I don't agree.

Studies also find that between that 61% and 81% of married Traveller women report having experienced domestic violence at the hands of their spouse.

For Kay, the beatings came three weeks into her marriage. She and her partner, both from Irish Travelling families, met on the road as teenagers before becoming pen pals. It wasn't until they settled down on a caravan site in Yorkshire that he threw his first punch. "He'd just flip out, slapping me, kicking me," says Kay (not her real name). "He wanted me to jump when he said, to sit when I was told." Despite the violence in their relationship, the couple had three children together and Kay says she felt powerless to leave. "I just accepted it as normal. In my culture the woman is the heart of the family, the man is the head – what he says goes."

Ah, the old ways ... the old family values culture ... when the man was the head of the family and the woman was a punching bag.

SusieBlue · 04-12-2018 01:22PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is true ideally people should not have 7/8/9 kids if they cannot afford it.
But the majority of non-travellers try to juggle both parenting and working.
They then work thier @rses off for someone else to raise thier kids.
I find it a strange contradiction.
Ideally I think there should be full-time parenting rather then the pretense of parenting which has now become accepted
It has become the strange social norm.

If non-traveller parents have to get two jobs and pay for someone else to look after thier kids for thier formative years should they be really having them?
It is the worst of both worlds work your @rses off so someone else does the parenting for you?

But that is just my personal opinion I find it odd when you really think about it.
In contrast, the likes of Maragaret Cash sees herself as a mother first.

This has to be a wind up.
Your comments are extremely insulting to any parent who has to put their child into childcare so they can work to put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

If there was full time parenting for all, who would pay your precious Margaret her 50k a year to be "a mother first"???

gormdubhgorm · 04-12-2018 01:23PM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

You are saying the Ms Cash is a better parent then working law abiding people ?

You’re off your head!

I am saying that she sees her primary role as a mother.
She is not a career obsessed women who decides to tick the boxes when she hits 30 then has 2.5 kids. Ticks the boxes and back to work, kids to childminder.
Cash sees her role as a full time mother first and foremost.
That used to be the way of society but those values are lost.

In a way as the taxpayer carries the can for the likes of Cash who does not have a working man to provide for her.
The childminders (mostly paid and lowly paid) carry the can for the working part-time parents.

lawred2 · 04-12-2018 01:24PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is true ideally people should not have 7/8/9 kids if they cannot afford it.
But the majority of non-travellers try to juggle both parenting and working.
They then work thier @rses off for someone else to raise thier kids.
I find it a strange contradiction.
Ideally I think there should be full-time parenting rather then the pretense of parenting which has now become accepted
It has become the strange social norm.

If non-traveller parents have to get two jobs and pay for someone else to look after thier kids for thier formative years should they be really having them?
It is the worst of both worlds work your @rses off so someone else does the parenting for you?

But that is just my personal opinion I find it odd when you really think about it.
In contrast, the likes of Maragaret Cash sees herself as a mother first.

you should just give up

ohnonotgmail · 04-12-2018 01:25PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am saying that she sees her primary role as a mother.
She is not a career obsessed women who decides to tick the boxes when she hits 30 then has 2.5 kids. Ticks the boxes and back to work, kids to childminder.
Cash sees her role as a full time mother first and foremost.
That used to be the way of society but those values are lost.

In a way as the taxpayer carries the can for the likes of Cash who does not have a working man to provide for her.
The childminders (mostly paid and lowly paid) carry the can for the working part-time parents.

yet despite having the luxury of being a full time mother paid for by the state they still seem to do a terrible job of it. Perhaps if they had less kids they might do a better job of being parents.

blanch152 · 04-12-2018 01:25PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is true ideally people should not have 7/8/9 kids if they cannot afford it.
But the majority of non-travellers try to juggle both parenting and working.
They then work thier @rses off for someone else to raise thier kids.
I find it a strange contradiction.
Ideally I think there should be full-time parenting rather then the pretense of parenting which has now become accepted
It has become the strange social norm.

If non-traveller parents have to get two jobs and pay for someone else to look after thier kids for thier formative years should they be really having them?
It is the worst of both worlds work your @rses off so someone else does the parenting for you?

But that is just my personal opinion I find it odd when you really think about it.
In contrast, the likes of Maragaret Cash sees herself as a mother first.

At heart you are an old-style paternalist. De Valera would be proud of you.

A woman's place is in the home, looking after the children, and keeping her husband happy.

Margaret Cash does not see herself as a mother first, she is unable to look past her own selfish interests.

cloudy90210 · 04-12-2018 01:26PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am saying that she sees her primary role as a mother.
She is not a career obsessed women who decides to tick the boxes when she hits 30 then has 2.5 kids. Ticks the boxes and back to work, kids to childminder.
Cash sees her role as a full time mother first and foremost.
That used to be the way of society but those values are lost.

In a way as the taxpayer carries the can for the likes of Cash who does not have a working man to provide for her.
The childminders (mostly paid and lowly paid) carry the can for the working part-time parents.

ZOMG WTF.

she sees kids as a chance to get extra free money. She should keep her legs closed

Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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