Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

02-12-2018 12:53PM

tuxy wrote: »

I think you may be correct, the travleers are very progressive over in the UK and can even be openly gay. Progress!

I laughed myself silly at this. Just brilliant. Just don’t mention turkey or Shakira to me!!

B00MSTICK · 02-12-2018 03:04PM

tuxy wrote: »

I think you may be correct, the travleers are very progressive over in the UK and can even be openly gay. Progress!

To follow on from this in a completely different (and less humorous) way

Remember Martin Ward, the traveller that was on RTE's "The Cutting Edge"?
He's gay and a LGBTQ+ activist and was given praise for appearing on the show with many saying he would be a great spokesman for Travellers etc.

The thing is, Martin Warde is pretty much the needle in the Traveller haystack:

1. Education
57% of male and 54% of females travellers don't progress past primary school.
~8% go on to do the leaving cert.

Martin is one of the ~1% that will get a 3rd level education.
This is the single biggest issue IMO.

2. Employment
~80% of Traveller's are unemployed.
Given the change in the times (being a tinker is no longer a viable career) and the rise of skilled jobs, this is clearly linked to education.

I believe after finishing the leaving cert Martin traveled to the UK where he gained extensive bar-management experience. I imagine he came back to Ireland to study. I'm under no illusion he'd find it harder to get a job here because of his name and the discrimination it brings with it.

3. Nomadic (or not)
The title of the Irish times piece is just this "I am a Traveller who does not travel"

As mentioned above I doubt he lived in a caravan or travelled around much while he was working in England and am pretty sure he doesn't now that he is in NUIG. I also get the feeling his parents weren't quite so nomadic if he managed to complete the junior and leaving cert.

4. Family/Environment
From what I can tell Martin has no family of his own as of yet, he isnt married either AFAIK.
Almost a third of Irish travellers in the 15-29 age group are married compared to ~6% in the settled community.
More than 1 in 4 Irish Traveller households had 6 or more persons.

5. Religion/Sexuality
Not sure which (if any) religions Martin believes in but the majority of Travellers would be staunch Catholics. I can't imagine being gay in the travelling community is a barrel of laugh so fair play to Martin on that count and continuing to build acceptance. I'm hoping his parents are open/accepting of it too and he has a good relationship with them.

6. Horses/Animals (none?)
While Martin was working in the UK or now that he is in college I doubt he had any equine pals around.

7. Other
Unfortunately many travellers are involved in crime, yet he doesn't seem to have gone down that path. He doesn't drink much. He doesn't post call out videos. He doesn't even sound like the majority of travellers I've spoken with or heard speaking.
If he had a different surname he probably wouldn't be discriminated against anymore than a settled person.

Taking all this into account - he's doesn't really fit into the traveller stereotype at all.
He is essentially a traveller that does not follow their typical traits or "traveller culture"

If we had a few generations of Travellers like him would we see as much discrimination at all?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 02-12-2018 11:17PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The other bit that annoys me she was offered a 3 bedroom house but refused it outright. It is like 'offering her nothing'.
A grateful person would be delighted to have a roof over thier head. She claims with 9 people it is would not be big enough. I am not so sure.... 3/4 people in a room bunk-beds sleeping bags? She could make do.

Her argument there was that six of her seven children are boys, and she couldn't put them all in the same room to give the girl a room of her own. Somewhat valid point, but does not excuse her attitude.

hurler32 · 03-12-2018 10:07AM

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/news/rural-crime/justice-minister-says-no-plans-to-change-trespass-laws-despite-farmer-fears-37586983.html

Fine Gael yet again helping out their traveller buddies ..... Fine Gael closed most rural Garda stations and give no support to those in the country suffereing at the hands of traveller gangs . Along with closing post offices , no broadband etc It’s all part of the Fine Gael strategy to drive everyone out of rural Ireland .

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 10:56AM

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Haven't heard a few of them words in a long time, gave me a good laugh on a Sunday morning, one of the better traveller call out I've seen in awhile

It is hilarious and his cousins reaction is even better. “Your mammy had so much dicky that’s why her eyes are crossed”

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 10:58AM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Her argument there was that six of her seven children are boys, and she couldn't put them all in the same room to give the girl a room of her own. Somewhat valid point, but does not excuse her attitude.

That’s a valid point when considering what house you’re going to buy. It’s not a valid point when you’re going cap in hand to the taxpayers.

Jerichoholic · 03-12-2018 10:59AM

B00MSTICK wrote: »

To follow on from this in a completely different (and less humorous) way

Remember Martin Ward, the traveller that was on RTE's "The Cutting Edge"?
He's gay and a LGBTQ+ activist and was given praise for appearing on the show with many saying he would be a great spokesman for Travellers etc.

The thing is, Martin Warde is pretty much the needle in the Traveller haystack:

1. Education
57% of male and 54% of females travellers don't progress past primary school.
~8% go on to do the leaving cert.

Martin is one of the ~1% that will get a 3rd level education.
This is the single biggest issue IMO.

2. Employment
~80% of Traveller's are unemployed.
Given the change in the times (being a tinker is no longer a viable career) and the rise of skilled jobs, this is clearly linked to education.

I believe after finishing the leaving cert Martin traveled to the UK where he gained extensive bar-management experience. I imagine he came back to Ireland to study. I'm under no illusion he'd find it harder to get a job here because of his name and the discrimination it brings with it.

3. Nomadic (or not)
The title of the Irish times piece is just this "I am a Traveller who does not travel"

As mentioned above I doubt he lived in a caravan or travelled around much while he was working in England and am pretty sure he doesn't now that he is in NUIG. I also get the feeling his parents weren't quite so nomadic if he managed to complete the junior and leaving cert.

4. Family/Environment
From what I can tell Martin has no family of his own as of yet, he isnt married either AFAIK.
Almost a third of Irish travellers in the 15-29 age group are married compared to ~6% in the settled community.
More than 1 in 4 Irish Traveller households had 6 or more persons.

5. Religion/Sexuality
Not sure which (if any) religions Martin believes in but the majority of Travellers would be staunch Catholics. I can't imagine being gay in the travelling community is a barrel of laugh so fair play to Martin on that count and continuing to build acceptance. I'm hoping his parents are open/accepting of it too and he has a good relationship with them.

6. Horses/Animals (none?)
While Martin was working in the UK or now that he is in college I doubt he had any equine pals around.

7. Other
Unfortunately many travellers are involved in crime, yet he doesn't seem to have gone down that path. He doesn't drink much. He doesn't post call out videos. He doesn't even sound like the majority of travellers I've spoken with or heard speaking.
If he had a different surname he probably wouldn't be discriminated against anymore than a settled person.

Taking all this into account - he's doesn't really fit into the traveller stereotype at all.
He is essentially a traveller that does not follow their typical traits or "traveller culture"

If we had a few generations of Travellers like him would we see as much discrimination at all?

He'd want to sort out his ****ing wretched opinion of disabled people first. Disgusting.

PlaneSpeeking · 03-12-2018 11:21AM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Her argument there was that six of her seven children are boys, and she couldn't put them all in the same room to give the girl a room of her own. Somewhat valid point, but does not excuse her attitude.

My dad had two sisters and a brother, all shared a room.

No biggie.

KrustyUCC · 03-12-2018 11:30AM

She keeps the youngest children in one bedroom with her, the daughter gets a room to herself and all the other lads sleep in bunk beds

where there is a will there is a way

Up to her to make a three bedroom house work out accommodation wise

She should be lucky to get that offer

She left school at 12, got married at 15, has seven kids by age 28, never worked in her life, is 100% dependent on the taxpayer to fund her but yet the gubberment is robbing her and a three bed house is not good enough for her

ohnonotgmail · 03-12-2018 11:35AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

My dad had two sisters and a brother, all shared a room.

No biggie.

My parents had 7 kids in a two bed house with 2 daughters and 5 sons. You just make it work.

Wanderer78 · 03-12-2018 11:36AM

ohnonotgmail wrote:

My parents had 7 kids in a two bed house with 2 daughters and 5 sons. You just make it work.

Surely we ve moved on from these kind of situations, what decade was this?

ohnonotgmail · 03-12-2018 11:47AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Surely we ve moved on from these kind of situations, what decade was this?

ah we have moved on from this. this was in the early 70's. But there is no reason why they can't make it work in a 3 bed house if they really want to.

03-12-2018 11:48AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Surely we ve moved on from these kind of situations, what decade was this?

I suppose we’ve moved on in so much as parents don’t usually have that many kids anymore. Shouldn’t be up to us to facilitate someone’s private choice but if you want my take on logistics, girl in bedroom with Mum, 6 boys divided between other 2 rooms.

Sweet.Science · 03-12-2018 11:49AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Surely we ve moved on from these kind of situations, what decade was this?

Cant you let us know your solution . Do we just give thousands of people 5 bed houses ? For free aswel

Then thousands more will see you can get huge houses if you have 6 or 7 kids.

Wanderer78 · 03-12-2018 11:49AM

ohnonotgmail wrote:

ah we have moved on from this. this was in the early 70's. But there is no reason why they can't make it work in a 3 bed house if they really want to.

You could make it work in a one room bedsit if needs be, but do we really have to?

KrustyUCC · 03-12-2018 11:52AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Surely we ve moved on from these kind of situations, what decade was this?

I know of cases from the 80s and 90s where plenty of primary school classmates were in this situation

Mom and Dad worked hard for that two bed house

Amazing what you can do with bunk beds, couches and air mattresses

Beggars can't be choosers

You get on with it and makes the best of things

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 11:56AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

You could make it work in a one room bedsit if needs be, but do we really have to?

Or she could take responsibility for her own crotch goblins and pay for them herself? Or are we past this too in this decade? Am I old fashioned?

Wanderer78 · 03-12-2018 12:02PM

Jasiah Hot Talker wrote:

Or she could take responsibility for her own crotch goblins and pay for them herself? Or are we past this too in this decade? Am I old fashioned?

I suspect her kids already exist, how much would be required to house all these kids, comfortably, what kind of income would be required to do so, and what are the chances of this occurring by cash herself?

Sweet.Science · 03-12-2018 12:04PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I suspect her kids already exist, how much would be required to house all these kids, comfortably, what kind of income would be required to do so, and what are the chances of this occurring by cash herself?

You still havent provided a solution .

What do you think should be done ?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 12:11PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I suspect her kids already exist, how much would be required to house all these kids, comfortably, what kind of income would be required to do so, and what are the chances of this occurring by cash herself?

Well, none of the rest of us got the ride that was required to bring them into existence so we shouldn’t expect to be rode taking responsibility for them. The only children I’m responsible for are the ones that come out of me.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 03-12-2018 12:11PM

Jasiah Hot Talker wrote: »

That’s a valid point when considering what house you’re going to buy. It’s not a valid point when you’re going cap in hand to the taxpayers.

I appreciate your point, but Cash would arguably have the European Social Charter on her side when it comes to the provision of adequate social housing.

She could argue that a three-bedroom house isn't adequate for her family's needs, given that she has six boys and a girl. Either the six boys would all be crammed in one bedroom, or the girl would have to share a bedroom with two or three brothers -- which might be fine when they are little kids, but most people would consider that sort of living arrangement unsuitable for teenagers.

If Cash decides to pursue the state through the courts for failing to provide adequate housing, the cost to the taxpayer would be much more than the upgrade from a 3-bed to a 4-bed.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 03-12-2018 12:14PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I suspect her kids already exist, how much would be required to house all these kids, comfortably, what kind of income would be required to do so, and what are the chances of this occurring by cash herself?

Well, you tell us -- what are chances that a barely literate woman who left school at age 12 and has 39 criminal convictions could earn enough to support seven kids on her own?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 12:15PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

I appreciate your point, but Cash would arguably have the European Social Charter on her side when it comes to the provision of adequate social housing.

She could argue that a three-bedroom house isn't adequate for her family's needs, given that she has six boys and a girl. Either the six boys would all be crammed in one bedroom, or the girl would have to share a bedroom with two or three brothers -- which might be fine when they are little kids, but most people would consider that sort of living arrangement unsuitable for teenagers.

If Cash decides to pursue the state through the courts for failing to provide adequate housing, the cost to the taxpayer would be much more than the upgrade from a 3-bed to a 4-bed.

Surely the state aren’t expected to absolve all adults of personal responsibility and having 7 children that you cannot provide for or provide shelter for is reckless neglect thus leaving the children in the care of the state. The state have a responsibility to meet minors basic needs, there is no provision that that has to be within the nuclear family.
She provides absolutely nothing to society, and with 39 convictions - more convictions than years she’s been alive - we could argue that she should not even partake in civilized society and is not fit to bring up the next generation unless they’re to excel in criminal offenses too.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 12:16PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

I appreciate your point, but Cash would arguably have the European Social Charter on her side when it comes to the provision of adequate social housing.

She could argue that a three-bedroom house isn't adequate for her family's needs, given that she has six boys and a girl. Either the six boys would all be crammed in one bedroom, or the girl would have to share a bedroom with two or three brothers -- which might be fine when they are little kids, but most people would consider that sort of living arrangement unsuitable for teenagers.

If Cash decides to pursue the state through the courts for failing to provide adequate housing, the cost to the taxpayer would be much more than the upgrade from a 3-bed to a 4-bed.

Also by the time the younger kids are teenagers, the older ones will be adults and should be moved out.

ohnonotgmail · 03-12-2018 12:18PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

You could make it work in a one room bedsit if needs be, but do we really have to?

well i dont because i would never put myself in that position. Damn me and my personal responsibility.

Sweet.Science · 03-12-2018 12:21PM

I bought a 2 bed house

If i have a boy and a girl and cant afford an attic extension does the government have to buy it for me ?

Genuine question - they cant be expected to share a room.

PlaneSpeeking · 03-12-2018 12:28PM

Jasiah Hot Talker wrote: »

Or she could take responsibility for her own crotch goblins and pay for them herself? Or are we past this too in this decade? Am I old fashioned?

Nicking that Shoes, genius!!!!

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 03-12-2018 12:58PM

Jasiah Hot Talker wrote: »

Also by the time the younger kids are teenagers, the older ones will be adults and should be moved out.

I'm not sure what the exact rule is in Ireland -- but in the UK a home is defined as overcrowded under law if two people who are of a different sex and aged 10 or older have to sleep in the same room.

Cash's daughter recently made her First Communion, so I'd guess she's around 8 or 9. The oldest child is 11.

This means the girl is getting to the age where it's no longer seen as appropriate for her to be sharing a room with her brothers. And it would probably also be overcrowding to have the six brothers crammed into one bedroom.

I appreciate the spirit of your points, but there are a host of legal reasons why it would be a bad idea to put the Cash family in a 3-bed.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 03-12-2018 01:01PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

I'm not sure what the exact rule is in Ireland -- but in the UK a home is defined as overcrowded under law if two people who are of a different sex and aged 10 or older have to sleep in the same room.

Cash's daughter recently made her First Communion, so I'd guess she's around 8 or 9. The oldest child is 11.

This means the girl is getting to the age where it's no longer seen as appropriate for her to be sharing a room with her brothers. And it would probably also be overcrowding to have the six brothers crammed into one bedroom.

I appreciate the spirit of your points, but there are a host of legal reasons why it would be a bad idea to put the Cash family in a 3-bed.

So I can buy a house, let’s say a 2 bed. I will have 5 children. Is it then the councils/states responsibility to add additional rooms to my home?

ohnonotgmail · 03-12-2018 01:01PM

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

I'm not sure what the exact rule is in Ireland -- but in the UK a home is defined as overcrowded under law if two people who are of a different sex and aged 10 or older have to sleep in the same room.

Cash's daughter recently made her First Communion, so I'd guess she's around 8 or 9. The oldest child is 11.

This means the girl is getting to the age where it's no longer seen as appropriate for her to be sharing a room with her brothers. And it would probably also be overcrowding to have the six brothers crammed into one bedroom.

I appreciate the spirit of your points, but there are a host of legal reasons why it would be a bad idea to put the Cash family in a 3-bed.

So if the child is not 10 yet what is the issue with her taking the 3 bed place as a temporary measure? surely that is better than her current situation?

Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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