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Giving the finger to insurance companies

2»

Comments

  • #32
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    It's a good point.
    What about his own solicitor. Are those 'no win no fee' arrangements still around?

    Not sure about your question but I assume all solicitors take a risk when they take on a client. I'd say plenty of clients who lose don't pay their solicitor/doctor/engineer etc.


  • #33
    pxdf9i5cmoavkz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭pxdf9i5cmoavkz


    I can see next weeks headline!

    Ireland declares war on fingers!
    Be paid for being stupid


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boy-who-hurt-his-finger-at-rte-settles-case-for-75000-888790.html
    A school boy who caught his finger in a metal chair while attending a concert at RTÉ two years ago has settled his High Court action for €75,000.


  • #34
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Sometimes when you win in court, you actually lose.

    Example.

    Scumbag X claims he is injured as a result of your actions/inactions and launches legal proceedings. You have to defend these proceedings. That costs money. There will be expensive medicals, engineering reports etc. And then there's the legal fees.

    It's possible that it could cost you €100k to fully defend a case. Now supposing you win and get your costs awarded. What good is that if Scumbag X has no money. He can't pay your costs and even though the court says that you are not to blame, you are down €100k.

    And that's not taking into account the risk that Scumbag X might win. And if he wins, you have to pay compensation plus his costs €100k and your own costs of €100k. That's a mighty big gamble to take.

    Obviously I'm guessing legal costs here but I'm not too far off the mark for some of the bigger cases.

    One a one case basis you are absolutely right.
    But, if money is immediately thrown at the person bringing a case and it becomes known that the target of said case is "soft", you can expect increased visits from people of a certain background, all of which are extremely clumsy and extremely fragile.
    If the target of the claims keeps paying out, the bushdrums will clearly convey the message "go to XYZ, throw yourself on the ground, make a bit of a show, €10k guranteed".
    If the message is, however, "don't bother, they'll fight you all the way, be years before you see any money, not worth the hassle", you will certainly save money in the long run.
    If every single claim was robustely and vehemently defended, no matte the cost, there would be a sharp decline in people trying it on.
    The very fact that this dipsh*t is suing for losing a finger that is absolutely without any shadow of a doubt down to his very own utter stupidity, nicely demonstrates the thinking "shure, I'll sure, who know, might get lucky".

    Additionally:
    Anyone who brings a lawsuit which is shown to be frivolous should be subject to criminal investigation for fraud and theft, with serious fines and/or jail time.
    As long as this absolute farce is allowed to continue, with easy payouts, soft judges and zero consequence for fraud, people will of course help themselves to easy money.


  • #35
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Will probably get a multi digit pay out.


  • #36
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    Will probably get a multi digit pay out.

    It might have been put on the long finger.


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  • #37
    Gravelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    It might have been put on the long finger.

    You nailed it, but it might be worth pointing out that it could be index linked.


  • #38
    McCrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭McCrack


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    One a one case basis you are absolutely right.
    But, if money is immediately thrown at the person bringing a case and it becomes known that the target of said case is "soft", you can expect increased visits from people of a certain background, all of which are extremely clumsy and extremely fragile.
    If the target of the claims keeps paying out, the bushdrums will clearly convey the message "go to XYZ, throw yourself on the ground, make a bit of a show, €10k guranteed".
    If the message is, however, "don't bother, they'll fight you all the way, be years before you see any money, not worth the hassle", you will certainly save money in the long run.
    If every single claim was robustely and vehemently defended, no matte the cost, there would be a sharp decline in people trying it on.
    The very fact that this dipsh*t is suing for losing a finger that is absolutely without any shadow of a doubt down to his very own utter stupidity, nicely demonstrates the thinking "shure, I'll sure, who know, might get lucky".

    Additionally:
    Anyone who brings a lawsuit which is shown to be frivolous should be subject to criminal investigation for fraud and theft, with serious fines and/or jail time.
    As long as this absolute farce is allowed to continue, with easy payouts, soft judges and zero consequence for fraud, people will of course help themselves to easy money.

    I think you need to read the occupiers liability act 1995 and the civil liability acts


  • #39
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    McCrack wrote: »
    I think you need to read the occupiers liability act 1995 and the civil liability acts

    Any particular section?


  • #40
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Mr. Kelly has quite predictably lost his case:
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-lost-finger-climbing-luas-fence-loses-high-court-action-37581939.html

    Unpredictably, all costs have been awarded against him.


  • #41
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    lets hope they don't pursue him for the costs, says the judge

    FFS


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  • #42
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    It's going to be a tough time for him financially.
    Hopefully Luas give him a few free leap cards or something.


  • #43
    Gravelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Raheem Euro wrote: »
    It's going to be a tough time for him financially.
    Hopefully Luas give him a few free leap cards or something.

    He'd better get his finger out quick.


  • #44
    Raheem Euro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 327 ✭✭Raheem Euro


    Gravelly wrote: »
    He'd better get his finger out quick.

    :eek: jaysus Gravelly, that's a bit close to the bone


  • #45
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    seamus wrote: »
    Mr. Kelly has quite predictably lost his case:
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-lost-finger-climbing-luas-fence-loses-high-court-action-37581939.html

    Unpredictably, all costs have been awarded against him.

    I bet the appeal is lodged already. If he loses, he will just claim inability to pay and get off anyway.


  • #46
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    ^^^^^^^
    So our legal system in this respect is a 'no-loss' casino for these types?

    Why wouldn't they take a seat at the table.


  • #47
    Thephantomsmask
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭Thephantomsmask


    The judge really knuckled down to the task at hand


  • #48
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    topper75 wrote: »
    ^^^^^^^
    So our legal system in this respect is a 'no-loss' casino for these types?

    Why wouldn't they take a seat at the table.

    Far be it from me to point a finger.


  • #49
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Learned a new word from this thread. Degloved.


  • #50
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Sometimes when you win in court, you actually lose.

    Example.
    Scumbag X claims he is injured as a result of your actions/inactions and launches legal proceedings. You have to defend these proceedings. That costs money. There will be expensive medicals, engineering reports etc. And then there's the legal fees.

    It's possible that it could cost you €100k to fully defend a case. Now supposing you win and get your costs awarded. What good is that if Scumbag X has no money. He can't pay your costs and even though the court says that you are not to blame, you are down €100k.

    And that's not taking into account the risk that Scumbag X might win. And if he wins, you have to pay compensation plus his costs €100k and your own costs of €100k. That's a mighty big gamble to take.

    Obviously I'm guessing legal costs here but I'm not too far off the mark for some of the bigger cases.

    Trouble is scumbag x never loses anything ...


  • #51
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    gozunda wrote: »
    Trouble is scumbag x never loses anything ...

    And that was my point. Caving in and quickly paying out any dodgy claim will result in acquiring the reputation of a piggy bank and a flood of claims from the "leisurable" classes.
    They have every incentive to claim since odds are in favour of a quick settlement to prevent a drawn out, expensive court case or a soft judge that will award money anyway, despite a hefty stink of bullsh*t off the case.
    Should a case not succeed, it's "better luck next time", since there are little to no consequences for dodgy claims. There are next to no criminal convictions handed down for what is basically theft and fraud.
    In Germany you're looking at a criminal conviction, fine and/or prison. Coupled with sensible awards, guess what? It's not even remotely the problem it is in Ireland.
    The only thing that might protect an establishment is the reputation of playing hardball when it comes to every single claim.
    It is exactly the same principle as shoplifting. A store might argue "we only lose €100 a month through shoplifting, but spend €1000 on security. If we get rid of security, we're quids in!".
    Exactly like quickly and easily paying out each and any claim, it is a flawed calculation. Idiotic even.
    People don't shoplift because there's consequences and people will think twice about putting in that €60k claim for a grazed knee if they know they are in for a long, drawn out battle that will cost tens of thousands if it doesn't go their way.
    Why does Ireland have a compo culture?
    Because of stupidly massive awards and an attitude of "just pay the money and make it go away."
    It is no mystery why Ireland has a problem.


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  • #52
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    And that was my point. Caving in and quickly paying out any dodgy claim will result in acquiring the reputation of a piggy bank and a flood of claims from the "leisurable" classes.
    They have every incentive to claim since odds are in favour of a quick settlement to prevent a drawn out, expensive court case or a soft judge that will award money anyway, despite a hefty stink of bullsh*t off the case.
    Should a case not succeed, it's "better luck next time", since there are little to no consequences for dodgy claims.
    Indeed. The problem we've had in the past is that in many instances, especially when the taxpayer is footing the bill, costs aren't pursued. So someone will spuriously sue a county council or CIE, lose in court, but because it's taxpayer money nobody bothers to reclaim costs.

    The knock on is obvious; word gets around and it becomes known that the court system is a free roulette table if you sue a state company. You can spin the wheel as many times as you like and you may not always win, but you'll never lose.
    It got to the point in the 00s that county councils were just paying out injury claims before court regardless of how ridiculous, because in the long run it was cheaper.

    They've started pushing back but the attitude is still there.

    Transdev aren't a state company though. They haven't rolled over about ridiculous driver demands and they won't roll over on this. They will bankrupt this guy if they have to.

    A headline saying, "I tried to sue Transdev and almost lost my home" is the kind of publicity they want.


  • #53
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,995 ✭✭✭take everything


    Read this just now.
    Unbelievable chancery altogether.
    How did this guy think this was someone else's fault


  • #54
    orourkeda1977
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭orourkeda1977


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    No, they'll nail him.

    Hopefully nailed to a lamppost and pelted with dogshyte


  • #55
    orourkeda1977
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭orourkeda1977


    This guy is bad.

    There is no doubt.

    However, the solicitor that took this case gives ambulance chasers a bad name.


  • #56
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Surprised this one hasn't made it to boards. Civil servant hurts his hand punching a punch bag. Got €30K plus costs.

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/3453761/civil-servant-30000-damages-flannerys-pub/


  • #57
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Berserker wrote: »
    Surprised this one hasn't made it to boards. Civil servant hurt his hand punching a punch bag. Got €30K plus costs.

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/3453761/civil-servant-30000-damages-flannerys-pub/

    It has dude. Nothing gets by Boards!

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057933974/1/#post108763818


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