Giving the finger to insurance companies

frash

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-who-lost-finger-climbing-fence-at-luas-stop-seeks-damages-1.3705986

A man who lost a finger when he tried to climb a fence after seeing a tram at the Dundrum Luas station platform has sued for damages in the High Court.

He said he walked on and he saw a “goat path” and climbed over one fence and thought there would be a gate at the top of the embankment.

As he went over the second fence which was about four foot high, he said: “I felt a tug, I lost all the meat off my finger.’

“None of this would have happened if I had seen the main entrance,” he said.

He can't win!
Can he?
He probably will.

TheValeyard

He does not deserve fingers.

SmartinMartin

No, they'll nail him.

Deebles McBeebles

Reminds me of my favourite show, Can't Use Walkway, We'll Take it Away.

deandean

Court is a lottery!
Reminds me of this case, there the award was overturned on appeal.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-overturns-75k-award-to-woman-who-slipped-on-grassy-slope-outside-dublin-shopping-centre-36308484.html

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

I really need to get in on this but not in a way that causes permanent damage to myself. The best thing is that I won't have to take responsibility for my own actions! God bless Ireland.

Based on memory there has been:

• Award for slipping on a chip.
• Award for slipping on a council house patio.
• Award for reaching down into a chest freezer.
• Award because someones child hit your child.
• Award for looking suspicious.

Signore Fancy Pants

No such thing as personal reaponsibility anymore.

-"I made a decision which resulted in an owie, money now, diddy Mao, money now!".

Its always someone elses fault for ones own stupidity.

Signore Fancy Pants

Zoey Old Watch wrote: »

I really need to get in on this but not in a way that causes permanent damage to myself. The best thing is that I won't have to take responsibility for my own actions! God bless Ireland.

Based on memory there has been:

• Award for slipping on a chip.
• Award for slipping on a council house patio.
• Award for reaching down into a chest freezer.
• Award because someones child hit your child.
• Award for looking suspicious.

Didnt some precious moon pig tip her knee off a table leg while being seated and claimed?

Bob Harris

The only finger he deserves is this one up his hole.

seamus

If there had been damage to the fence, a sharp edge that sliced him open or any indication that people were supposed to climb the fence to gain access, then he might have a case.

Degloving is a well-documented risk of climbing things while wearing rings. He took this risk, the operator didn't fail in any duty of care.

Of course, amputation being a serious injury and Transdev being a big company with insurance, I can see the judge awarding partial liability because the "entrance wasn't sufficiently signposted" or similar nonsense.

Baybay

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

He does not deserve fingers.

So like my mother! This really made me laugh, thank you!

twinytwo

seamus wrote: »

If there had been damage to the fence, a sharp edge that sliced him open or any indication that people were supposed to climb the fence to gain access, then he might have a case.

Degloving is a well-documented risk of climbing things while wearing rings. He took this risk, the operator didn't fail in any duty of care.

Of course, amputation being a serious injury and Transdev being a big company with insurance, I can see the judge awarding partial liability because the "entrance wasn't sufficiently signposted" or similar nonsense.

Be some load of bollox if that is the case... how the hell can anyone be so thick to not be able to find the entrance so they feel they would need to climb a fence to get in.

Gravelly

frash wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-who-lost-finger-climbing-fence-at-luas-stop-seeks-damages-1.3705986

A man who lost a finger when he tried to climb a fence after seeing a tram at the Dundrum Luas station platform has sued for damages in the High Court.

He said he walked on and he saw a “goat path” and climbed over one fence and thought there would be a gate at the top of the embankment.

As he went over the second fence which was about four foot high, he said: “I felt a tug, I lost all the meat off my finger.’

“None of this would have happened if I had seen the main entrance,” he said.

He can't win!
Can he?
He probably will.

There are goat paths in Dundrum now?

If this muppet wins there'll be a queue of similar types pawing at fences all over the country next week.

seamus

If you read between the lines, what happened is that he thought the entrance to the stop would be under the bridge at Dundrum (which is not an unreasonable guess, tbf).

He got there, realised it wasn't, but a Luas pulled into the station, so he ran up and tried to jump the fence to catch the tram.

His assertion is that, "If the signage for the stop was clearer, this wouldn't have happened", rather than, "If I had just waited for the next tram, this wouldn't have happened".

I expect some ambulance-chaser managed to get into his head about how this wasn't cause by his own stupidity.

I'll agree with him that if you've never gotten the green line at Dundrum, it's very unclear how to get to the station. But it's very clear that you don't get in by jumping the fence.

BeerWolf

Lost the "meat on his finger"...

Suddenly feeling peckish for some finger food.

DirtyBollox

He probably will get compensation. No worse than the **** who got the half mil for knowingly participating in tram surfing, falling off and admitting she was in the wrong.

Paddy Cow

Zoey Old Watch wrote: »

I really need to get in on this but not in a way that causes permanent damage to myself. The best thing is that I won't have to take responsibility for my own actions! God bless Ireland.

Based on memory there has been:

• Award for slipping on a chip.
• Award for slipping on a council house patio.
• Award for reaching down into a chest freezer.
• Award because someones child hit your child.
• Award for looking suspicious.

You forgot the two most recent farces:

• €5,000 for defamation when barman said a tenner was fake
• €550,000 to woman injured when she chose to go tram surfing

Deebles McBeebles

Here's an interesting one
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tourists-awarded-30000-after-taxi-was-rearended-and-motorist-fled-37553887.html

homosapien91

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-who-slipped-on-rose-petals-settles-case-37386912.html

brevity

This little piggy went to the market.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

seamus wrote: »

If you read between the lines, what happened is that he thought the entrance to the stop would be under the bridge at Dundrum (which is not an unreasonable guess, tbf).

He got there, realised it wasn't, but a Luas pulled into the station, so he ran up and tried to jump the fence to catch the tram.

His assertion is that, "If the signage for the stop was clearer, this wouldn't have happened", rather than, "If I had just waited for the next tram, this wouldn't have happened".

I expect some ambulance-chaser managed to get into his head about how this wasn't cause by his own stupidity.

I'll agree with him that if you've never gotten the green line at Dundrum, it's very unclear how to get to the station. But it's very clear that you don't get in by jumping the fence.

You should get into compensation law (I'll be your first client) as you have a real knack for always finding a way to justify actions by putting the blame on other parties.

Put a gun to your head and pulled the trigger but nothing happened? It's the manufacturers fault and you must claim for emotional distress.

Drinking and driving and then crashed into a tree? It's the states fault for not removing the tree.

Burgled a home and got caught? It's the owners fault for not installing a visible alarm system.

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Personal_responsibility

Wheety

Judge: "While there has to be some personal responsibility, the operators did did not have security personnel standing at the gate to warn people of the dangers of climbing it.

I am awarding €60,000.

Lunch?"

suicide_circus

it's like the auld one who got 40k because she fell down an escalator in Dublin airport because there wasn't sufficient signage to tell her where the lifts were. This despite not attempting to ask any nearby staff and being seen on cctv walking onto the escalator without hesitation and not holding the hand rail. The judgement was later overturned so sense prevailed.

Wheety

suicide_circus wrote: »

it's like the auld one who got 40k because she fell down an escalator in Dublin airport because there wasn't sufficient signage to tell her where the lifts were. This despite not attempting to ask any nearby staff and being seen on cctv walking onto the escalator without hesitation and not holding the hand rail. The judgement was later overturned so sense prevailed.

I'd like more companies to appeal. Some of the payouts are ridiculous.

seamus

Zoey Old Watch wrote: »

You should get into compensation law (I'll be your first client) as you have a real knack for always finding a way to justify actions by putting the blame on other parties.

How did you get that from my post?

Gravelly

There should be a sanity check run by non-lawyers before these cases get to court. Have a panel of ordinary working people, like a jury, decide whether a claim has merit or not. I'd imagine it would free up a lot of court time, lower insurance costs, and stop scammers getting rich by playing on the greed of lawyers and the idiocy of judges.

King of Kings

seamus wrote: »

How did you get that from my post?

its pretty much all your posts.

ok not all of them. but his impression of your posts is bang on with mine.

im not attacking you , your posts can be interesting but you've a knack for delivering a minority position on a very regular basis or that is my general impression.

seamus

That's true, I would generally assume that everyone is a rational actor (which itself is probably a mistake), and thus seek to try and see things from everyone's point of view. Rather than taking a polarised view and assuming one side is acting with malice.

I find it odd though to be accused of "blaming someone else" in response to a post where I quite clearly didn't.

corner of hells

I'm in the process of making a claim at the moment for repetitive injury to hand , I'm presently sueing Pornhub , after that I'll be sueing Boards for sore fingers from scrolling through AH.

BattleCorp

Wheety wrote: »

I'd like more companies to appeal. Some of the payouts are ridiculous.

Sometimes when you win in court, you actually lose.

Example.

Scumbag X claims he is injured as a result of your actions/inactions and launches legal proceedings. You have to defend these proceedings. That costs money. There will be expensive medicals, engineering reports etc. And then there's the legal fees.

It's possible that it could cost you €100k to fully defend a case. Now supposing you win and get your costs awarded. What good is that if Scumbag X has no money. He can't pay your costs and even though the court says that you are not to blame, you are down €100k.

And that's not taking into account the risk that Scumbag X might win. And if he wins, you have to pay compensation plus his costs €100k and your own costs of €100k. That's a mighty big gamble to take.

Obviously I'm guessing legal costs here but I'm not too far off the mark for some of the bigger cases.

Trigger Happy

BattleCorp wrote: »

Sometimes when you win in court, you actually lose.

Example.

Scumbag X claims he is injured as a result of your actions/inactions and launches legal proceedings. You have to defend these proceedings. That costs money. There will be expensive medicals, engineering reports etc. And then there's the legal fees.

It's possible that it could cost you €100k to fully defend a case. Now supposing you win and get your costs awarded. What good is that if Scumbag X has no money. He can't pay your costs and even though the court says that you are not to blame, you are down €100k.

And that's not taking into account the risk that Scumbag X might win. And if he wins, you have to pay compensation plus his costs €100k and your own costs of €100k. That's a mighty big gamble to take.

Obviously I'm guessing legal costs here but I'm not too far off the mark for some of the bigger cases.

It's a good point.
What about his own solicitor. Are those 'no win no fee' arrangements still around?

BattleCorp

Trigger Happy wrote: »

It's a good point.
What about his own solicitor. Are those 'no win no fee' arrangements still around?

Not sure about your question but I assume all solicitors take a risk when they take on a client. I'd say plenty of clients who lose don't pay their solicitor/doctor/engineer etc.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

I can see next weeks headline!

Ireland declares war on fingers!
Be paid for being stupid


https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boy-who-hurt-his-finger-at-rte-settles-case-for-75000-888790.html

A school boy who caught his finger in a metal chair while attending a concert at RTÉ two years ago has settled his High Court action for €75,000.

dr.fuzzenstein

BattleCorp wrote: »

Sometimes when you win in court, you actually lose.

Example.

Scumbag X claims he is injured as a result of your actions/inactions and launches legal proceedings. You have to defend these proceedings. That costs money. There will be expensive medicals, engineering reports etc. And then there's the legal fees.

It's possible that it could cost you €100k to fully defend a case. Now supposing you win and get your costs awarded. What good is that if Scumbag X has no money. He can't pay your costs and even though the court says that you are not to blame, you are down €100k.

And that's not taking into account the risk that Scumbag X might win. And if he wins, you have to pay compensation plus his costs €100k and your own costs of €100k. That's a mighty big gamble to take.

Obviously I'm guessing legal costs here but I'm not too far off the mark for some of the bigger cases.

One a one case basis you are absolutely right.
But, if money is immediately thrown at the person bringing a case and it becomes known that the target of said case is "soft", you can expect increased visits from people of a certain background, all of which are extremely clumsy and extremely fragile.
If the target of the claims keeps paying out, the bushdrums will clearly convey the message "go to XYZ, throw yourself on the ground, make a bit of a show, €10k guranteed".
If the message is, however, "don't bother, they'll fight you all the way, be years before you see any money, not worth the hassle", you will certainly save money in the long run.
If every single claim was robustely and vehemently defended, no matte the cost, there would be a sharp decline in people trying it on.
The very fact that this dipsh*t is suing for losing a finger that is absolutely without any shadow of a doubt down to his very own utter stupidity, nicely demonstrates the thinking "shure, I'll sure, who know, might get lucky".

Additionally:
Anyone who brings a lawsuit which is shown to be frivolous should be subject to criminal investigation for fraud and theft, with serious fines and/or jail time.
As long as this absolute farce is allowed to continue, with easy payouts, soft judges and zero consequence for fraud, people will of course help themselves to easy money.

Raheem Euro

Will probably get a multi digit pay out.

dr.fuzzenstein

Raheem Euro wrote: »

Will probably get a multi digit pay out.

It might have been put on the long finger.

Gravelly

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It might have been put on the long finger.

You nailed it, but it might be worth pointing out that it could be index linked.

McCrack

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

One a one case basis you are absolutely right.
But, if money is immediately thrown at the person bringing a case and it becomes known that the target of said case is "soft", you can expect increased visits from people of a certain background, all of which are extremely clumsy and extremely fragile.
If the target of the claims keeps paying out, the bushdrums will clearly convey the message "go to XYZ, throw yourself on the ground, make a bit of a show, €10k guranteed".
If the message is, however, "don't bother, they'll fight you all the way, be years before you see any money, not worth the hassle", you will certainly save money in the long run.
If every single claim was robustely and vehemently defended, no matte the cost, there would be a sharp decline in people trying it on.
The very fact that this dipsh*t is suing for losing a finger that is absolutely without any shadow of a doubt down to his very own utter stupidity, nicely demonstrates the thinking "shure, I'll sure, who know, might get lucky".

Additionally:
Anyone who brings a lawsuit which is shown to be frivolous should be subject to criminal investigation for fraud and theft, with serious fines and/or jail time.
As long as this absolute farce is allowed to continue, with easy payouts, soft judges and zero consequence for fraud, people will of course help themselves to easy money.

I think you need to read the occupiers liability act 1995 and the civil liability acts

dr.fuzzenstein

McCrack wrote: »

I think you need to read the occupiers liability act 1995 and the civil liability acts

Any particular section?

seamus

Mr. Kelly has quite predictably lost his case:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-lost-finger-climbing-luas-fence-loses-high-court-action-37581939.html

Unpredictably, all costs have been awarded against him.

monkeybutter

lets hope they don't pursue him for the costs, says the judge

FFS

Raheem Euro

It's going to be a tough time for him financially.
Hopefully Luas give him a few free leap cards or something.

Gravelly

Raheem Euro wrote: »

It's going to be a tough time for him financially.
Hopefully Luas give him a few free leap cards or something.

He'd better get his finger out quick.

Raheem Euro

Gravelly wrote: »

He'd better get his finger out quick.

:eek: jaysus Gravelly, that's a bit close to the bone

dr.fuzzenstein

seamus wrote: »

Mr. Kelly has quite predictably lost his case:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-lost-finger-climbing-luas-fence-loses-high-court-action-37581939.html

Unpredictably, all costs have been awarded against him.

I bet the appeal is lodged already. If he loses, he will just claim inability to pay and get off anyway.

topper75

^^^^^^^
So our legal system in this respect is a 'no-loss' casino for these types?

Why wouldn't they take a seat at the table.

Thephantomsmask

The judge really knuckled down to the task at hand

dr.fuzzenstein

topper75 wrote: »

^^^^^^^
So our legal system in this respect is a 'no-loss' casino for these types?

Why wouldn't they take a seat at the table.

Far be it from me to point a finger.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Learned a new word from this thread. Degloved.

gozunda

BattleCorp wrote: »

Sometimes when you win in court, you actually lose.

Example.
Scumbag X claims he is injured as a result of your actions/inactions and launches legal proceedings. You have to defend these proceedings. That costs money. There will be expensive medicals, engineering reports etc. And then there's the legal fees.

It's possible that it could cost you €100k to fully defend a case. Now supposing you win and get your costs awarded. What good is that if Scumbag X has no money. He can't pay your costs and even though the court says that you are not to blame, you are down €100k.

And that's not taking into account the risk that Scumbag X might win. And if he wins, you have to pay compensation plus his costs €100k and your own costs of €100k. That's a mighty big gamble to take.

Obviously I'm guessing legal costs here but I'm not too far off the mark for some of the bigger cases.

Trouble is scumbag x never loses anything ...

dr.fuzzenstein

gozunda wrote: »

Trouble is scumbag x never loses anything ...

And that was my point. Caving in and quickly paying out any dodgy claim will result in acquiring the reputation of a piggy bank and a flood of claims from the "leisurable" classes.
They have every incentive to claim since odds are in favour of a quick settlement to prevent a drawn out, expensive court case or a soft judge that will award money anyway, despite a hefty stink of bullsh*t off the case.
Should a case not succeed, it's "better luck next time", since there are little to no consequences for dodgy claims. There are next to no criminal convictions handed down for what is basically theft and fraud.
In Germany you're looking at a criminal conviction, fine and/or prison. Coupled with sensible awards, guess what? It's not even remotely the problem it is in Ireland.
The only thing that might protect an establishment is the reputation of playing hardball when it comes to every single claim.
It is exactly the same principle as shoplifting. A store might argue "we only lose €100 a month through shoplifting, but spend €1000 on security. If we get rid of security, we're quids in!".
Exactly like quickly and easily paying out each and any claim, it is a flawed calculation. Idiotic even.
People don't shoplift because there's consequences and people will think twice about putting in that €60k claim for a grazed knee if they know they are in for a long, drawn out battle that will cost tens of thousands if it doesn't go their way.
Why does Ireland have a compo culture?
Because of stupidly massive awards and an attitude of "just pay the money and make it go away."
It is no mystery why Ireland has a problem.