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Public servants' inability to afford to pay rent in Dublin.

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    #272
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Investment needs to be spread out around the country or this problem will not be fixed.

    what? what investment?


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    #273
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Allinall wrote: »
    I’d be interested to know what specific policies the government have directed to enable REIT to purchase properties ahead of anyone else?

    Also, evidence of policies that enable them to charge “whatever rent they want”

    REITs were enabled by the state legislating for them. They are 'tax efficient' avenues for real estate investment. Basically quick and easy ways for Goldman Sachs to sent the rents. Meanwhile DCC is too inept to build social housing of any scale.


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    #274
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Allinall wrote: »
    So- no policies.

    We have an open and competitive property market.

    So called “outside vulture funds” are given no advantage over any other buyers.

    Can you show any specific policies from government that contradicts that?

    We have an 'open and competitive property market'. But no development shall exceed 4 floors, all developments must house underground parking, all units should be dual aspect with one aspect south or west facing, every unit requires it's own laundry facility and boiler. 40% of the cost of a new apartment shall be tax.

    So no it's not 'open and competitive', only low rise luxury units with parking are allowed to be built. Nobody is allowed to build say 10 floors of one bed studios with communal roof garden and laundry room and no parking and rent each one for €500 a month. No, young single people have to house share in suburban family homes and families have to feck off to Kildare and commute.

    This is part of the ploy to keep housing expensive.


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    #275
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    kona wrote: »
    Keep dublin for the dubs. Problem solved.
    Got the needle in the arm stuff down. Just have to learn that other nursing stuff and ye can do a Dubxit and send all the culchie nurses back over the M50.


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    #276
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Ronin Salty Hotel wrote: »
    I spent 25 years in the private sector.made redundant twice in 3 years. Paid into my own pension when I was on enough money to be able to pay into it, was expected to work 70 hour weeks and questioned when i went home on time....so what's your point??


    Not sure what your point is and how it's related to mine...


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    #277
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think 25% is recognised as the standard amount a person should have to pay for accommodation. 25% of a persons gross salary, that is.



    And that is not including utilities. If you factor in utilities, then the figure would be more like 33% - 35%.


    Accommodation, transport and food costs combined should not be more than 60% of a person's salary. (CBS Money watch)


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    #278
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think 25% is recognised as the standard amount a person should have to pay for accommodation. 25% of a persons gross salary, that is.



    And that is not including utilities. If you factor in utilities, then the figure would be more like 33% - 35%.


    Accommodation, transport and food costs combined should not be more than 60% of a person's salary. (CBS Money watch)

    The problem with that is that this is probably for a different country with different levels of tax. It should be based on net salary.


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    #279
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,411 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    limnam wrote: »
    Deise Vu wrote: »
    For the life of me I can never understand why the newspaper headlines don't read "EVEN public servants can't afford housing in Dublin". Instead we get this narrative that our public servants are somehow hard done by.

    Here is the pay scale for teachers taken on since 2011 which the lowest scale:

    https://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales-and-qualification-allowances/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

    A starting salary of €36,318 plus €1,236 for a 1st or 2nd class HDip is €37,554. By year 2 the basic plus HDIP is already equal to the average pay across the economy of €39K. Factor in the holidays, snow days, storm days, holy days, 'personal' days and very generous sickness and maternity packages before you even consider pensions and suddenly things get a bit more perspective. And that is the lowest scale.

    Another thing I don't understand is why Governments buy peace at any cost at the first sign of a public service dispute. Their reward for this craven approach is a guaranteed threat of a strike at the next available opportunity, there is never any peace dividend in it for the Govt. Considering Nurses and Teachers (and Guards and train drivers etc etc) will inevitably threaten a strike as soon as an election is called, is there no chance some Govt will try and win the votes of the 85% of us who aren't on the gravy train by telling them to GTFO.




    When you work it out into an hourly wage for hours actually in the classroom it's a staggering amount of money for someone starting out in a new job.
    If you think that a teacher's work stops when they leave the classroom, you have an awful lot to learn.


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    #280
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Really? The govt have starved the councils of money to fund housing. You've fallen into the classic FFG blame game. REIT's facilitated by the govt have bought up thousands of homes, that cannot be neglected. They have influenced rents greatly at the detriment of everyone. Profit for greed! You cannot blame SF who have minimal power and yet FFG control the govt, mindboggling!

    Councils don't need to fund additional housing. They just need to plan their cities and allow suitable housing to be built.

    P.S. The government brought in property tax to help fund the councils and guess what? Sinn Fein & Friends opposed (very, very strongly).
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes. Add the PRD (10.5%) on to PAYE, USC, PRSI and whatever else they pay and all public sector employees are taking home only 40% of everything they earn above €34, 550.
    To be fair, I wouldn't consider pension contributions to be a "tax". It is an extremely lucrative bonus that the private sector could only dream of. If you want to consider that a tax, then many private sector workers often end up paying 70-80% tax!!!
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    If you think that a teacher's work stops when they leave the classroom, you have an awful lot to learn.
    But generally - it does. I have lots of close family and friends who are teachers. Yes, in the first few years, there can be a bit of overhead doing up lesson plans etc, but once you're on the job a few years, you're just tweaking it on an annual basis. Then there is correcting (non-state) exams etc, but that's just the odd occasion and quite small. Compare that to most professions, where there is often a huge amount of overtime expected as well as continuous learning & development etc in your own time.


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    #281
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    dotsman wrote: »
    Councils don't need to fund additional housing. They just need to plan their cities and allow suitable housing to be built.

    P.S. The government brought in property tax to help fund the councils and guess what? Sinn Fein & Friends opposed.

    And then voted to reduce it by the maximum allowed.


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    #282
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes. Add the PRD (10.5%) on to PAYE, USC, PRSI and whatever else they pay and all public sector employees are taking home only 40% of everything they earn above €34, 550.

    So paying into a pension is a tax now?

    And also all 304,472 of them earn over 34k? So what is their net take-home per month?


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    #283
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    If you think that a teacher's work stops when they leave the classroom, you have an awful lot to learn.


    Hours in "work" then.


    Still staggering.


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    #284
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    Missed quite a few pages, rather than trawling through them I'll get to the point.

    This thread is fundamentally flawed in the sense that it (accidentally or otherwise) raises the plight of one group over another. So it therefore turns into an us and them argument, which is totally missing the point (as Grayson IMO correctly states). The fact is that everyone is in the ****, everyone that is who happens to be looking for a place to rent or buy. For everyone else it's actually quite a good thing. If you own a house of your own you might feel a bit sorry for friends and relatives out there struggling, but the reality is when it comes to voting, they'll probably be thinking of the 30%-40% rise in the value of their house rather than how they've done very little to solve the problem and the predicament of the people they know who are struggling.

    The govt probably won't be arsed in resolving this problem unless it becomes a threat to their position as the govt of Ireland. To solve the problem they'd have to shell out money, and by shelling out money they have less money to put into reducing the debt that their bosses in Brussels demand they do. Until then it'll be lip service and Eoghan Murphy going on tv telling everyone how sad it is that there are so many homeless but not really homeless people.

    Should a permanent full-time public sector worker be able to afford a house near where they work? Of course. Should everyone else who has similar full-time employment have the same opportunity? Yes. Putting guards and teachers into some sort of bracket of higher social benefit than other workers is a load of rubbish though.

    There are plenty of other examples of people facing issues in terms of their living arrangements.

    - Single People: pretty obvious reason
    - Self-Employed people: even a self-employed person with a history of good income will be treated with a degree of concern by banks making decisions on mortgages, and their reliance on having to rent is therefore more pronounced.

    Compare this to a public sector worker. Banks absolutely love public sector workers. If you happened to be a couple, both working in public sector jobs, that goes down as a massive plus point when trying to get some sort of mortgage.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is where the majority of schools and garda stations in Dublin are. They aren't in the cities. Schoolteachers aren't going into the city centre (where the bulk of the rush hour tends to be) in as big a number as other type of workers. In terms of convenience there's less need for them to live centrally to Dublin.

    Transport and housing are associated issues, and both of which are in the ****. Good transport links would make journeys of 10 miles + reasonably manageable as a commute, whereas now you could have a journey of about 5 miles which could take an hour or more. This govt seems to have no reasonable plan to tackle either issue, it's difficult to feel how this will improve, for public sector workers or anyone else!


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    #285
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    ligerdub wrote: »
    Missed quite a few pages, rather than trawling through them I'll get to the point.

    This thread is fundamentally flawed in the sense that it (accidentally or otherwise) raises the plight of one group over another. So it therefore turns into an us and them argument, which is totally missing the point (as Grayson IMO correctly states). The fact is that everyone is in the ****, everyone that is who happens to be looking for a place to rent or buy. For everyone else it's actually quite a good thing. If you own a house of your own you might feel a bit sorry for friends and relatives out there struggling, but the reality is when it comes to voting, they'll probably be thinking of the 30%-40% rise in the value of their house rather than how they've done very little to solve the problem and the predicament of the people they know who are struggling.

    The govt probably won't be arsed in resolving this problem unless it becomes a threat to their position as the govt of Ireland. To solve the problem they'd have to shell out money, and by shelling out money they have less money to put into reducing the debt that their bosses in Brussels demand they do. Until then it'll be lip service and Eoghan Murphy going on tv telling everyone how sad it is that there are so many homeless but not really homeless people.

    Should a permanent full-time public sector worker be able to afford a house near where they work? Of course. Should everyone else who has similar full-time employment have the same opportunity? Yes. Putting guards and teachers into some sort of bracket of higher social benefit than other workers is a load of rubbish though.

    There are plenty of other examples of people facing issues in terms of their living arrangements.

    - Single People: pretty obvious reason
    - Self-Employed people: even a self-employed person with a history of good income will be treated with a degree of concern by banks making decisions on mortgages, and their reliance on having to rent is therefore more pronounced.

    Compare this to a public sector worker. Banks absolutely love public sector workers. If you happened to be a couple, both working in public sector jobs, that goes down as a massive plus point when trying to get some sort of mortgage.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is where the majority of schools and garda stations in Dublin are. They aren't in the cities. Schoolteachers aren't going into the city centre (where the bulk of the rush hour tends to be) in as big a number as other type of workers. In terms of convenience there's less need for them to live centrally to Dublin.

    Transport and housing are associated issues, and both of which are in the ****. Good transport links would make journeys of 10 miles + reasonably manageable as a commute, whereas now you could have a journey of about 5 miles which could take an hour or more. This govt seems to have no reasonable plan to tackle either issue, it's difficult to feel how this will improve, for public sector workers or anyone else!

    pleanty of other ps jobs in the city, hospitals, plenty of garda stations, fire houses etc


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    #286
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,837 ✭✭✭doc_17


    [HTML]m[/HTML]
    cgcsb wrote: »
    what? what investment?

    Infrastructure funding and IDA investment.


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    #287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    limnam wrote: »
    While they were secure in the fact they would not lose their job

    Except public sector works do get made redundant, I was and I know plenty more who were also and not even in the recession in many cases. You are just shoveling nonsense in every single post.
    limnam wrote: »
    Hours in "work" then.


    Still staggering.

    What an idiotic comment, what does it even mean. You don’t consider a teacher is working unless they are in a class room or in the school building.

    Good job you aren’t in charge anywhere (private or public sector) or working from home would be considered a day off :rolleyes:


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    #288
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    Just saw there the average Facebook worker in Dublin gets €150,000 per year, included share schemes and bonuses. Their basic pay is 99,000, so that’ll give you an idea of the competition that’s out their for rental properties.


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    #289
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Just saw there the average Facebook worker in Dublin gets €150,000 per year, included share schemes and bonuses. Their basic pay is 99,000, so that’ll give you an idea of the competition that’s out their for rental properties.

    Before envying them, you'd need to include what is their average working hours/week. I'd assume its the american style, not the PS style.
    I don't envy any of that FB/google... elite: they are selling their lives for the money they are getting (=working extremely long hours).
    - I would rather envy an HSE worker that gets higher salary than me, with half the hours worked weekly, and possibly similar responsibility. But I guess that would not be the average PS wages we're talking about on this thread.


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    #290
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    To the OP work for Dublin City Council, you will get to no 1 on the housing list in a matter of weeks.

    And you get one of those subsidized apartments for basically free.


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    #291
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    mvl wrote: »
    Before envying them, you'd need to include what is their average working hours/week. I'd assume its the american style, not the PS style.
    I don't envy any of that FB/google... elite: they are selling their lives for the money they are getting (=working extremely long hours).
    - I would rather envy an HSE worker that gets higher salary than me, with half the hours worked weekly, and possibly similar responsibility. But I guess that would not be the average PS wages we're talking about on this thread.

    +1

    Similarly I've a friend in "FB/google" on 150k a year, contracted to do 40 hours a week but does about 80 hours. Basically he's working almost every hour he's awake. Conversely I've a friend who is a college lecturer on 90k, is contracted to do 18 hours a week 35 weeks of the year. He probably averages about 22 hours when busy term time and not busy summer holidays are taken into account.

    One has a good job, the other has a great job.


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    #292
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Just saw there the average Facebook worker in Dublin gets €150,000 per year, included share schemes and bonuses. Their basic pay is 99,000, so that’ll give you an idea of the competition that’s out their for rental properties.

    My friend is high up in FB in Dublin and her salary is €100,000. I seriously doubt that basic pay there is €99,000. And my friend basically has no life.


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    #293
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    KevinCavan wrote:
    Just saw there the average Facebook worker in Dublin gets €150,000 per year, included share schemes and bonuses. Their basic pay is 99,000, so that’ll give you an idea of the competition that’s out their for rental properties.

    This isn't representative of most companies whatsoever.


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    #294
    doc_17
    Registered Users Posts: 6,837 ✭✭✭doc_17


    These some serious claims being made here about everyone else’s pay and conditions! PS workers and private sector workers aren’t the problem, Dublin is the problem. It’s a a dump. And yet everything that’s happening in Ireland has to happen there.


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    #295
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dreamers75 wrote: »
    To the OP work for Dublin City Council, you will get to no 1 on the housing list in a matter of weeks.

    And you get one of those subsidized apartments for basically free.

    lol this is the straight-up wrongest thing posted in some time


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    #296
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    My friend is high up in FB in Dublin and her salary is €100,000. I seriously doubt that basic pay there is €99,000. And my friend basically has no life.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/facebook-ireland-staff-coin-it-as-average-pay-reaches-154-000-1.3714642


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    #297
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    limnam wrote: »
    Getting paid by the tax payer then off in Spain pulling in a second tax free salary before they come back here whining about having to correct a few papers that they pull another salary from!


    License to print money.

    You forgot the cash in hand grinds. Can I get €40-60 an hour please?


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    #298
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Ush1 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/facebook-ireland-staff-coin-it-as-average-pay-reaches-154-000-1.3714642

    I’d be interested to see how much the top salaries in the company are skewing that. Probably by quite a lot.


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    #299
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    I’d be interested to see how much the top salaries in the company are skewing that. Probably by quite a lot.

    actual quote form article
    The financial statements show that the 1,008 staff directly employed last year by Facebook Ireland each received an average salary of €95,766

    each received an average salary.........I despair sometimes


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    #300
    granturismo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭granturismo


    doc_17 wrote: »
    These some serious claims being made here about everyone else’s pay and conditions! PS workers and private sector workers aren’t the problem, Dublin is the problem. It’s a a dump. And yet everything that’s happening in Ireland has to happen there.

    Plus this thread has been initiated with an article in the Independent which most of the PS/CS bashing references.


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    #301
    granturismo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭granturismo


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You forgot the cash in hand grinds. Can I get €40-60 an hour please?

    I'm paying €30 an hour for grinds with qualified teachers in N Kildare. If someone wants to pay me €40 for an hour I'll take it.

    I think approx 80% of Leaving Cert students get grinds - there's the demand.


    I've paid 3 contractors cash in hand to get reductions on €150, €200 and €1800 jobs. Nixers are not confined to the PS.


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