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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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Comments

  • #9482
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Was half expecting his lawyer to extend a shepherd's crook from left of camera to yank him off screen to stop him talking when he said he lied to Congress
    He didn't lie, he was doing politics.


  • #9483
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    circadian wrote: »
    I see Corsi went on Ari Melber last night to "spill the beans" on his involvement in the probe.

    I suspect he is both covering for Stone and using this as a means to get information to the Trump admin. He also ran with the "Mueller offered me a plea deal in return for a lie" in a attempt to discredit the SC.

    I wonder if the likes of MSNBC get the go ahead from the special counsel to let people like this on, is this part of the play to let those involved think they're making a smart move but in reality they're just tightening the noose.

    https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari-melber/watch/key-mueller-witness-i-lied-and-i-m-ready-to-die-in-jail-1383185475967?v=railb&

    Read this article yesterday and it just encapsulates everything that is utterly rotten about US politics at the moment..
    Documents Reveal Trump Allies Jerome Corsi, Roger Stone Knew Seth Rich Conspiracy Theory Was False Before Promoting It

    Trump associate Jerome Corsi emailed Roger Stone about the hacked Clinton campaign emails before they were published also revealed another telling piece of information about the Trump allies: Corsi and Stone were aware that a conspiracy theory they peddled about a murdered Democratic National Committee staffer was false.

    The email Corsi sent Stone, made public in documents prepared by the office of special counsel Robert Mueller and dated to Aug. 2, 2016, showed that the two privately acknowledged that the Democrat emails published on WikiLeaks during the 2016 election had been obtained by Russian hackers and not stolen by DNC staffer Seth Rich, even as they publicly pushed the conspiracy theory that Rich had been murdered for leaking the emails, as the Daily Beast noted.

    The revelation shows the clear-eyed and cruel ways the two right-wing pundits propagated falsehoods for political gain, even as Rich’s parents pleaded for the conspiracy theorists to drop discussion of their son’s murder.

    Not that it will remove the pain of their loss in anyway, but I hope that Seth Richs family take Stone, Corsi, Alex Jones et al for every rotten penny they've ever made...

    Just vile human beings..


  • #9484
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Read this article yesterday and it just encapsulates everything that is utterly rotten about US politics at the moment..



    Not that it will remove the pain of their loss in anyway, but I hope that Seth Richs family take Stone, Corsi, Alex Jones et al for every rotten penny they've ever made...

    Just vile human beings..

    The Seth Rich story was such a load of bull that even one of the most pro-Trump posters in here could see it. It was pushed by other's however. There's a sampling below but it shows that people who should know better are getting their news from sources of misinformation and are falling for it.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is still conspiracy and you offered no evidence.
    You would not be posting it if it related to the Clintons.

    I am sure you don't want to talk about the lies from the Democrats who blamed Russia for the DNC email leaks, when it turned out to be Seth Rich, a DNC staffer who ended up murdered.

    I am sure you want to stick to the conspiracy theories.

    This is no conspiracy, the DNC probably knew it was an inside job but were too embarrassed to admit it. It took Julian Assange to say it was the murdered Seth Rich who was their source.
    Amerika wrote: »
    Wow... Breaking news.... Julian Assange is suggesting that Seth Rich, the DNC staffer who was mysteriously murdered, was the Wikileaks source for the leaked DNC emails.

    http://drudgegae.iavian.net/r?hop=ht...hot-dead-dc%2F
    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Any reasons why Wikileaks should spare Democrats?
    Every journalists is dreaming to become most powerful journalist in a world and Assange successfully achieved it.
    Plus some revenge for Chelsea Manning, Snowden, hiding in Russia, Seth Rich killed by Clinton plus personal vendetta against those who locked Assange in Ecuadorian embassy

    There are more but I'm not going to include them as the accounts look closed.


  • #9485
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    In other news, it turns out that Trump was talking regularly with Stone around the time of the leaks. Also, Mueller is looking into these calls as well.
    He provided The Post and other news organizations with a draft filing by prosecutors describing his interactions with Stone — including an Aug. 2, 2016, email in which the right-wing author alerted Stone that he heard WikiLeaks was planning a major release of “very damaging” material.


    The next day, Stone had one of his private talks with Trump, Stone said on a 2016 Infowars broadcast first reported by CNN.

    In an interview, Stone insisted that the topic of hacked emails was never broached in the Aug. 3 phone call — or in any other communication with Trump.


    Why would Trump even have Stone on the payroll anyway? You don't hire Stone for kids' birthday party entertainment; you hire him for extra-legal election fúckery. The idea that Stone was in communication with Trump and didn't provide updates on what he was doing is as absurd as the idea that Trump didn't know about the Trump Tower meeting.


  • #9486
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think we're all a little desensitised to the circus and cynical machinations that forms US politics these days - I know I am - but when you look at these perversions such as the Seth Rich lies in the cold light of day, it can be pretty sickening to think this is where the norm in a 'functioning' Western Democracy has found itself.

    I suppose Irish politics isn't beyond such coarse manipulation, what with the Maurice McCabe controversies (openly admit to not being up to speed on that), but America seems to have graduated it to such an industrialised degree it's hard to see how it'll ever properly pull itself back from the brink.


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  • #9487
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,087 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    It certainly seems, albeit from the media reports that is all we have to go on, that Mueller is far deeper into this then even Trump was aware.

    I recall at the time that Manafort got the plea deal that people were wondering what Mueller would get from it, and indeed what Manafort would get since Manafort was already convicted and he clearly felt a pardon was coming.

    It would appear that Manafort accepted it in order to get involved in the investigation and be able to provide updates to Trump via the legal teams. It also appears that Mueller was very aware of this fact and has used Manafort to pass on information to Trump. The fact that Mueller knows that Manafort has lied to them means that he knows at least some portion of the truth.

    If Trump used Manafort's intel to frame his responses then he could be in very sticky situation. The timing is another tell. Trump kept refusing to answer questions, but after Manafort plea deal was suddenly willing to write his answers. Mueller lets the courts know that he knows Manafort is lying right after he received the written answers from Trump. It could be a coincidence, but Mueller doesn't seem to do that.


  • #9488
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    It certainly seems, albeit from the media reports that is all we have to go on, that Mueller is far deeper into this then even Trump was aware.

    I recall at the time that Manafort got the plea deal that people were wondering what Mueller would get from it, and indeed what Manafort would get since Manafort was already convicted and he clearly felt a pardon was coming.

    It would appear that Manafort accepted it in order to get involved in the investigation and be able to provide updates to Trump via the legal teams. It also appears that Mueller was very aware of this fact and has used Manafort to pass on information to Trump. The fact that Mueller knows that Manafort has lied to them means that he knows at least some portion of the truth.

    If Trump used Manafort's intel to frame his responses then he could be in very sticky situation. The timing is another tell. Trump kept refusing to answer questions, but after Manafort plea deal was suddenly willing to write his answers. Mueller lets the courts know that he knows Manafort is lying right after he received the written answers from Trump. It could be a coincidence, but Mueller doesn't seem to do that.

    There was a suggestion earlier in the thread that Mueller was playing 4D chess with Trump, I guess in response to previous claims that Trump is playing 3D chess which is why nobody knows what he's up to. It's really not though, it's just regular 2D chess or probably just snakes and ladders that Mueller is playing. Trump is just too dumb to know how to play even that so it appears to be really complicated and clever.

    If you are into shady dealings and one of your shady colleagues gets brought in by the good guys then WTF are you doing having anything to do with, or paying any attention to, anything that your shady colleagues then tell you. It's just beyond idiocy for Trump to be trusting anything Manafort said about anything from that point on.

    It's well played by Mueller, but only if you compare it to the idiocy of Trump to fall for it. Mueller is just doing his job as it should be done, and Trump and co are making it easy for him.


  • #9489
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,817 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    robinph wrote: »
    There was a suggestion earlier in the thread that Mueller was playing 4D chess with Trump, I guess in response to previous claims that Trump is playing 3D chess which is why nobody knows what he's up to. It's really not though, it's just regular 2D chess or probably just snakes and ladders that Mueller is playing. Trump is just too dumb to know how to play even that so it appears to be really complicated and clever.

    If you are into shady dealings and one of your shady colleagues gets brought in by the good guys then WTF are you doing having anything to do with, or paying any attention to, anything that your shady colleagues then tell you. It's just beyond idiocy for Trump to be trusting anything Manafort said about anything from that point on.

    It's well played by Mueller, but only if you compare it to the idiocy of Trump to fall for it. Mueller is just doing his job as it should be done, and Trump and co are making it easy for him.

    Yeah you'd think when Mueller's team didn't try to challenge the Joint Defence Agreement between Trump's lawyers and Manafort's lawyers, that one of them would have thought "I think they might know about our genius secret plan..."


  • #9490
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Penn wrote: »
    Yeah you'd think when Mueller's team didn't try to challenge the Joint Defence Agreement between Trump's lawyers and Manafort's lawyers, that one of them would have thought "I think they might know about our genius secret plan..."

    Baldrick tied up in a bag of blind hedgehogs and armed only with an amusingly shaped turnip would be able to run rings around Trump and his team of lawyers.


  • #9491
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,087 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The question Trump needs to worry about is how do they know Manafort is lying. You would think that he at least lied about stuff not easily checked, so they must have far more intel then Manafort thought they had or were capable of finding.

    So that raises the question of what they (Mueller) know. How much about the Trump Tower meeting are they sure of. What links and communications have they gotten their hands on? Does this place Jared and Trump Jr in more danger?


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  • #9492
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    The question Trump needs to worry about is how do they know Manafort is lying. You would think that he at least lied about stuff not easily checked, so they must have far more intel then Manafort thought they had or were capable of finding.

    So that raises the question of what they (Mueller) know. How much about the Trump Tower meeting are they sure of. What links and communications have they gotten their hands on? Does this place Jared and Trump Jr in more danger?
    An observation I saw made on reddit is that Mueller must basically have everything at this stage. The refusal of anyone except Trump to fight back shows that whatever evidence Mueller has is wide-ranging and inarguable. He's just sealing up the cracks and ensuring that everyone who could possibly be leaned upon for a defence, is implicated/charged before he goes after Trump.

    Literally everyone that Mueller has gone for, has rolled over without fuss, and everyone connected or implicated goes silent.

    Once the legal professionals see just how much of a mess this is, and how much Mueller has, they are telling their clients, "Unless you want to spend the rest of your life in prison, you tell them everything they want to know and you take whatever plea bargain they offer".

    It's as likely at this stage that Manafort is part of the plan to indict Trump as it is that he's an ally.


  • #9493
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,149 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I think we're all a little desensitised to the circus and cynical machinations that forms US politics these days - I know I am - but when you look at these perversions such as the Seth Rich lies in the cold light of day, it can be pretty sickening to think this is where the norm in a 'functioning' Western Democracy has found itself.

    I suppose Irish politics isn't beyond such coarse manipulation, what with the Maurice McCabe controversies (openly admit to not being up to speed on that), but America seems to have graduated it to such an industrialised degree it's hard to see how it'll ever properly pull itself back from the brink.
    robinph wrote: »
    Baldrick tied up in a bag of blind hedgehogs and armed only with an amusingly shaped turnip would be able to run rings around Trump and his team of lawyers.

    Funny and all as that is, can you imagine if Trump and his bottom feeders (stone, manafort, cohen etc) were fractionally more intelligent than they actually are?

    Serious safeguards need to be put in place, such as a mandatory disclosure of tax records and in my view, an independent health and mental check!

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #9494
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,149 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    The question Trump needs to worry about is how do they know Manafort is lying. You would think that he at least lied about stuff not easily checked, so they must have far more intel then Manafort thought they had or were capable of finding.

    they have CCTV footage of Manafort going in to see Assange! They can tell he wore chinos! It's laughable stuff

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #9495
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    I'd wager at this stage Trump knows that he is screwed so he his entire tact for the last number of months is not to dispute the findings but to discredit the investigation in such a way that people wont care when it does get published.


  • #9496
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,849 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Mueller knows most things but I think you're wrong on Manafort. Manafort has fecked around with the truth since he for so long muck raked with some of the nastiest clients around and thought he could get away with it and any way he could fall back on a pardon.
    He fell into Mueller's trap.


  • #9497
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Penn wrote: »
    Yeah you'd think when Mueller's team didn't try to challenge the Joint Defence Agreement between Trump's lawyers and Manafort's lawyers, that one of them would have thought "I think they might know about our genius secret plan..."

    Stupid watergate


  • #9498
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,087 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Water John wrote: »
    Mueller knows most things but I think you're wrong on Manafort. Manafort has fecked around with the truth since he for so long muck raked with some of the nastiest clients around and thought he could get away with it and any way he could fall back on a pardon.
    He fell into Mueller's trap.

    You might well be right, but the question for Trump is did he know this before answering the written questions?
    Has Mueller been playing Manafort to get to Trump or merely to get to Manafort?
    If Trump accepted the intel from Manafort, and tbh there is little reason why they wouldn't, then he could be very seriously compromised.

    That, of course, is on the assumption that he has anything to be compromised about. He may have simply told the truth, which is that he knew nothing and is aghast that all this may have happened using him as the patsy!


  • #9499
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,849 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    But Mueller is about getting the truth. He is not setting out to nail people. He sets traps for them to negotiate.


  • #9500
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,817 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    You might well be right, but the question for Trump is did he know this before answering the written questions?
    Has Mueller been playing Manafort to get to Trump or merely to get to Manafort?
    If Trump accepted the intel from Manafort, and tbh there is little reason why they wouldn't, then he could be very seriously compromised.

    That, of course, is on the assumption that he has anything to be compromised about. He may have simply told the truth, which is that he knew nothing and is aghast that all this may have happened using him as the patsy!

    I think it's very telling that they waited until after Trump submitted his written answers to Mueller's questions (especially considering how long it took them to even get to that stage) before pulling the plea deal from Manafort for lying to them.

    I took months for Trump to work out the arrangement with Mueller for how they would answer the questions (whether it was going to be an interview, questions pre-submitted with no follow-ups, written answers to all or some etc). If Manafort and his team were passing info and answers to Trump's team, it could have made Trump align his answers with Manafort's. It's possibly the only reason Trump and his team felt safe submitting answers to Mueller's questions at all was because they thought their answers wouldn't conflict with Manafort's and wouldn't incriminate Trump.

    But now that Trump's answers were submitted, Manafort is no use now. Mueller knows he's been lying and feeding info to Trump, and now Trump has possibly perjured himself in his submitted answers. Plus Mueller can bring it all public through Manafort's sentencing for violating his plea deal by lying, thereby bypassing Whitaker.

    I really hope this all turns out to be true. Regardless of what happens after, it's pure genius in action.


  • #9501
    amandstu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Penn wrote: »
    I think it's very telling that they waited until after Trump submitted his written answers to Mueller's questions (especially considering how long it took them to even get to that stage) before pulling the plea deal from Manafort for lying to them.

    I took months for Trump to work out the arrangement with Mueller for how they would answer the questions (whether it was going to be an interview, questions pre-submitted with no follow-ups, written answers to all or some etc). If Manafort and his team were passing info and answers to Trump's team, it could have made Trump align his answers with Manafort's. It's possibly the only reason Trump and his team felt safe submitting answers to Mueller's questions at all was because they thought their answers wouldn't conflict with Manafort's and wouldn't incriminate Trump.

    But now that Trump's answers were submitted, Manafort is no use now. Mueller knows he's been lying and feeding info to Trump, and now Trump has possibly perjured himself in his submitted answers. Plus Mueller can bring it all public through Manafort's sentencing for violating his plea deal by lying, thereby bypassing Whitaker.

    I really hope this all turns out to be true. Regardless of what happens after, it's pure genius in action.
    If it is anyway true ,is this a ploy that has been played before?Have we any legal professionals on this thread who would be able to say?

    If it is an established ploy ,how did Trump's legal team not see it coming or run rings around it?

    If it is a new ploy,(and has in fact been played) then my estimation of the Mueller Heavi team may have to go up.


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  • #9502
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,849 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    It'll be like two school lads handing up the same wrong answer to the maths sum.
    The teacher has little to prove.


  • #9503
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,818 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Tweet two days ago: November 27th:
    The now $30,000,000 Witch Hunt continues and they’ve got nothing but ruined lives.

    Today
    After wasting more than $40,000,000 (is that possible?), it has proven only one thing-there was NO Collusion with Russia.

    Shocking inflation!


  • #9504
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Water John wrote: »
    It'll be like two school lads handing up the same wrong answer to the maths sum.
    The teacher has little to prove.

    Funnily enough, I was explaining the situation to a mate last night and used the same analogy, except it was identical essays


  • #9505
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    looksee wrote: »
    Tweet two days ago: November 27th:


    Today


    Shocking inflation!

    He went from 30,000 jobs to millions of jobs, when describing the cost of the Saudi deal


  • #9506
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    duploelabs wrote: »
    He went from 30,000 jobs to millions of jobs, when describing the cost of the Saudi deal

    He just says things, there is no real thought behind it once they sound good to him.


  • #9507
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,149 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    looksee wrote: »
    Tweet two days ago: November 27th:


    Today


    Shocking inflation!

    1) He should note how much it has cost in security to have him golf every damn day

    2) Mueller has pulled in more money than it has expended. They are running on a surplus

    3) Every.Single.Time. he mentions a figure or a number, it is inherently wrong.

    Incredible how many JDA he has - drain the swamp indeed...

    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1068134986430087168

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #9508
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    32 people in a JDA? Sounds an awful lot like a criminal conspiracy to me.


  • #9509
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,149 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Breaking news..



    https://twitter.com/GStephanopoulos/status/1068143172524609538

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #9510
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,149 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1068149041467412486


    So Cohen is going to come clean in relation to Trump Tower Moscow!!!!!!


    I wonder if he will confirm that disputed trip to Prague mentioned in the Steele dossier....

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • #9511
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Mueller is charging people for lying to congress? A lot of people should be getting worried now.


This discussion has been closed.
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