Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

First Up · 26-11-2018 11:23AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Those subsidies are there to maintain the service, whether FTP card holders use it or not. The alternative is that the route is dropped or reduced. Its not the fault of FTPs that others aren't using the service.

If everyone was paying, the subsidy would be less - that's patently obvious.

That assumes FTP holders would still travel if they had to pay. The statistics would be interesting but I suspect 90%+ of FTP use is didcretionary and it just facilitates sociability.

No doubt there is some revenue potential but I suspect it is marginal. A couple of OAPs taking a day trip to Cork or to visit their grandkids is a social benefit, not a financial loss. And they might buy a sandwich on the train.

Knine · 26-11-2018 11:36AM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

It is a suggestion, that is all.
I believe everyone should make some monetary contribution to a service (in this instance peak rush hour)
Whether that is a doable or not, I don't know.
Is it fair, I believe so.

Carer's already contribute far more then their fair share so no I don't agree. They also have to pay for the person being cared for using the transport with them.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 12:44PM

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26-11-2018 12:46PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Please go do some research on the expansion plans for the PSC and we can continue the discussion when you have some clue about what is involved.

As it stands, you are expecting teams of people to throw out their existing 5 year plan because some random bloke on the Internet came up with a random idea on how to restrict public services, with no clear business case or benefit arising.

You are very hyperbolic, throwing out untrue accusations without a bother and in your head assuming the infrastructure plan for the PSC card or anything ever will be influenced by anything said in After Hours on boards.ie

You don't want discussion and debate - you do like the sound of your own gripes though.

Maybe you'll qualify for a FTP due to that complex of yours.

Let me know if you're interested in getting back to discuss the issue in hand, instead of taking shots at me.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 01:02PM

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skooterblue2 · 26-11-2018 01:06PM

Knine wrote: »

Carer's already contribute far more then their fair share so no I don't agree. They also have to pay for the person being cared for using the transport with them.

I am not saying that there isnt massive wastage in the budget of the HSE. But if the full burden of the Carers was to be absorbed by the HSE, the system would teeter over and collapse. Carers do better work and give more quality and care than the equivalent in nursing homes. They do it on the fraction of a budget and are on call 24/7 with little respite services.

I wouldnt begrudge a carer a Travel Pass much less anything else

Hotblack Desiato · 26-11-2018 01:08PM

batgoat wrote: »

They've also done decades of contributions towards state services.

Sick of hearing this cliched nonsense. A good percentage of the population are complete wasters who've never worked a day in their lives. Therefore a percentage of OAPs are also complete wasters who never worked a day in their lives. According to some on here, sainthood is conferred on one's 66th birthday :rolleyes:

But I'd be delighted if usage increased. It makes it far easier for a person in their latter years to maintain an outgoing life. Retirement tends to be a common point for depression to become an issue so free passes likely help maintain healthy mental health. There's a saving for you since you're obsessed with the cost..

A free pass for peak time services is not required for the above.

Hotblack Desiato · 26-11-2018 01:09PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

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That's not true though.

ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 01:12PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

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Everybody 66 or over is entitled to a FTP. no contributions necessary. Those 65 or under who receive disability allowance get a FTP. No contributions are required to receive disability allowance.

gormdubhgorm · 26-11-2018 01:16PM

Emme wrote: »

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Just be glad you are fortunate enough to be able to stand some people are not so lucky - disabled, old age etc
It sounds like you wish you were old as well so you could get your free travel pass. (Most elderly get up early anyway by the way)

But, if you are that eager to avail of the service you could saw off one of your legs go on disability allowance, get the Free Travel Pass and you will be so much happier! (Think of the money you would save!!! And you won't even have to work!)
You can only hope it the rule where the FTP can only be used in off peak does not return after you go one legged, because that will limit your freedom even more

MrMusician18 · 26-11-2018 01:23PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

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Anecdotal evidence. Any hard facts? Nope
Less of the emotion please, there has been no reduction in child mortality associated with this policy. Even improvement in child outcomes? Certainly not the kind of improvement you'd expect for a 30% increase in service use.

They're are ways to help families without making a service free. Removing the element of payment makes it open to be abused by hypochondriacs. Likewise the FTP, you'll have those on the bus just coming along for the ride.

And the FTP will be a footnote in history when I "retire" that is when I'm no longer fit to work. Retirement by then will only be for the super wealthy, the rest of us proles will not retire. Young people today are paying for benefits for today's elderly that they will not get when their time comes

Everyone aged over 66, resident in Ireland is entitled to the FTP. You need not have ever worked a day to get one, so go 'way with your stamps nonsense.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-11-2018 02:04PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Sick of hearing this cliched nonsense. A good percentage of the population are complete wasters who've never worked a day in their lives. Therefore a percentage of OAPs are also complete wasters who never worked a day in their lives. According to some on here, sainthood is conferred on one's 66th birthday :rolleyes:

What’s the “good percentage”? Got a figure? There will always be wasters. Every country has them. A good percentage though? Nah. And you don’t know if that OAP you’re fuming at is one if them or not.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

FTPs aren't the only welfare abuse going on.

That's a completely moronic rant.

I don't have four kids, I work for a living so I can only afford to have two.

I have to pay all the bills for my own family, while supporting countless feckless others who live off my back.

Hey, Hotblack, perhaps try and answer people’s posts without insulting them. It’s just making you look het up and irrational. You’ve been ranting away in this thread yourself too, by the way.

I don’t understand people wasting energy fuming away about what others get. As said, I’d love to be able to work. I loved contributing to society, using my noggin and mixing with the world every day. I never thought about who I was funding. Every country has wasters. There will always be a small percentage.

Honestly, you don’t know you’re alive.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 02:05PM

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ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 02:22PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence. Any hard facts? Nope
Less of the emotion please, there has been no reduction in child mortality associated with this policy. Even improvement in child outcomes? Certainly not the kind of improvement you'd expect for a 30% increase in service use.

They're are ways to help families without making a service free. Removing the element of payment makes it open to be abused by hypochondriacs. Likewise the FTP, you'll have those on the bus just coming along for the ride.

And the FTP will be a footnote in history when I "retire" that is when I'm no longer fit to work. Retirement by then will only be for the super wealthy, the rest of us proles will not retire. Young people today are paying for benefits for today's elderly that they will not get when their time comes

We're not talking about child mortality, We're talking about health . No hard facts , just my own experience on the frontline.
Not emotional ,just indignant when I read some of the stuff spewed by the likes of you. Where are your hard facts ?
You will always get hypochondriac, but to say that the increase in use of GP services is all down to hypochondriac is a massive exaggeration.

Talking about FTP . A third of the holders are non contributory. How do you know that they didn't "work a day in their lives" or are you so ignorant that you don't know of the marriage bar that affected so many women up to the mid 70s, and after that a lot of these women had to work part-time and didn't pay stamps because of the nature of their work. This went on mainly till the mid nineties and would have affected the majority of women on non contributory pensions now. Many thousands of women are only getting their rightful entitlements now as caring for children in the home counts for stamps and contributions. But that is just in the last decade.
Some of the " non contributory" FTP are classified thus because they are granted by social services in extreme hardship, e.g. people having to get trains to hospitals for chemotherapy . These people will have them until they are cured or die.
Other non contributory passengers are disabled adults and children and their carers. In order to classify everybody who gets a sw benefit so that people like you would accept it , we would need to employ many more public servants working around the clock, 7 days a week,365 days a year, and then that would be the next gripe on boards, "All of these public servants bleeding the country dry. "
Our society chooses to try to give something back to carers and old people , and although it is a paltry sum for the value that they have given the state

Get over it.

you said

And by the way, FTP IS contributory. No one gets one unless they have paid their stamps and are eligible fo either the pension or invalidity or disability.

This is patently false.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 02:24PM

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Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-11-2018 02:25PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you said

This is patently false.

You can get the FTP without contributions in a small number of cases but you have to be in a really bad way to qualify for that. As in, ‘nobody would object to it unless they’re a complete cünt’ bad.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 02:26PM

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ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 02:27PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You can get the FTP without contributions in a small number of cases but you have to be in a really bad way to qualify for that. As in, ‘nobody would object to it unless they’re a complete cünt’ bad.

No you dont. You get a FTP on disability allowance. No contributions required. You get a FTP once you turn 66. No contributions required.

ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 02:28PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No , you are right , I should have said their contributions have been backdated for them !

The contributions or otherwise that people make are irrelevant when it comes to the FTP. They are not taken into account in any way.

zell12 · 26-11-2018 02:31PM

Came across a query. How many have the free travel pass?

Under 66 years 245,931
Over 66 years 628,707
&
every user can be tracked :eek:

the free travel variant of Public Services Card will allow for more comprehensive data to be collected on usage or non-usage of free travel

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-11-2018 02:32PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No you dont. You get a FTP on disability allowance. No contributions required. You get a FTP once you turn 66. No contributions required.

I was talking about non-OAPs.

Yup, OAPs get stuff given to them. I can’t work up any kind of outrage at that. More pressing things to be worrying about.

ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 02:33PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I was talking about non-OAPs.

Yup, OAPs get stuff given to them. I can’t work up any kind of outrage at that. More pressing things to be worrying about.

So am i. Anybody on disability allowance is entitled to a FTP. Contributions are irrelevant.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-11-2018 02:38PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So am i. Anybody on disability allowance is entitled to a FTP. Contributions are irrelevant.

So, they’re sick enough to qualify for non-FTP? Well, that’s a shït situation to be in, isn’t it?

I’m one of those people. Getting my card required a lot of paperwork and hoop-jumping. It was not easy to get. But I’m so glad to have it. I can never work again and have very little money. The card has helped my severely straitened circumstances. Wanna trade places?

ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 02:40PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

So, they’re sick enough to qualify for non-FTP? Well, that’s a shït situation to be in, isn’t it?

I’m one of those people. Getting my card required a lot of paperwork and hoop-jumping. It was not easy to get. But I’m so glad to have it. I can never work again and have very little money. The card has helped my severely straitened circumstances. Wanna trade places?

You are arguing against something i haven't said. I was originally countering the argument of somebody else who said that contributions are required to get a FTP. You decided to jump and try to have a different argument.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 26-11-2018 02:44PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You are arguing against something i haven't said. I was originally countering the argument of somebody else who said that contributions are required to get a FTP. You decided to jump and try to have a different argument.

Well, with so much curmudgeonly stewing in this thread, tis hard to work out who is posting for what reason.

Yes, some FTPs are non-contributory. The end.

Ned Led Zeppo · 26-11-2018 02:52PM

mickuhaha wrote: »

I would agree with the point that it is annoying not having a seat but this is Irish rails fault not ftph. You may have been able to taken an early train.

Why don't you sit on the roof.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 02:52PM

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ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 02:53PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

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I dont object to that.

Goldengirl · 26-11-2018 02:59PM

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ohnonotgmail · 26-11-2018 03:01PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

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That was not your original post. Certainly the post i replied to did not say that.

Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

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