We are a rich country.

Kivaro · 25-11-2018 12:02PM #1

That was a comment I saw this morning, as I read about the new Direct Provision hotel in Moville, Donegal. Followed by the comment: "It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

After reading the article, the demographic of the people supporting the conversion of the hotel into a Direct Provision center seem to be the same type of people supporting the opening of our doors to the world's needy. Another supporter of this view (a college lecturer in the northwest) stated that "if people have to queue a bit longer at the doctor's surgery or make room in the classrooms for more children, it's a small price to pay compared to what the people seeking asylum have gone through."
She goes on to say" "Most people who are coming won't even be in this country yet. They will be walking across deserts or hitching rides in trucks as we speak."

The top 10 nationalities applying for "international protection" (must be the new phrase that we have to use for the asylum process) in Ireland are: Georgians, Albanians, Syrians, Zimbabweans, Pakistanis, Nigerians, South Africans, Congolese (from the Democratic Republic of Congo), Brazilians and Algerians. If I was a betting man, and taking the Syrians out of the equation for obvious reasons, the vast majority in our top 10 countries arrived by plane into our country, and bypassed other safe countries; no walking across deserts for the Albanians or Brazilians or Georgians (?; why Georgia).

I wonder if those supporters of our country's open doors are that naive? But since they are very vocal and their comments are broadly reported by the Irish media; I also wonder if the country's politicians believe that this is the majority view? It is certainly not the majority view in my heavily taxed and resource-starved community.

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants. Meanwhile, in other news, Ireland's carer of the year has to fundraise to get what their very sick son needs. There are many, many other examples. Due to funding issues, off-hours mental health services are not available to our children and teenagers in many counties across Ireland. Maybe we are not as rich as some people think, and maybe we should be putting the resources allocated for the needy of Brazil, Nigeria and Albania, into Ireland's local services where there is an obvious need.

Harry Palmr · 25-11-2018 12:03PM

Ireland is a rich country - visit a poor one and you'll know that.

Everything else is just argument about how the money is spent.

Needles73 · 25-11-2018 12:06PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ireland is a rich country - visit a poor one and you'll know that.

Everything else is just argument about how the money is spent.

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

Trigger Happy · 25-11-2018 12:06PM

Any country that pays its perpetually unemployed €200 a week is not poor op.

backspin. · 25-11-2018 12:06PM

Kivaro wrote: »

That was a comment I saw this morning, as I read about the new Direct Provision hotel in Moville, Donegal. Followed by the comment: "It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

After reading the article, the demographic of the people supporting the conversion of the hotel into a Direct Provision center seem to be the same type of people supporting the opening of our doors to the world's needy. Another supporter of this view (a college lecturer in the northwest) stated that "if people have to queue a bit longer at the doctor's surgery or make room in the classrooms for more children, it's a small price to pay compared to what the people seeking asylum have gone through."
She goes on to say" "Most people who are coming won't even be in this country yet. They will be walking across deserts or hitching rides in trucks as we speak."

The top 10 nationalities applying for "international protection" (must be the new phrase that we have to use for the asylum process) in Ireland are: Georgians, Albanians, Syrians, Zimbabweans, Pakistanis, Nigerians, South Africans, Congolese (from the Democratic Republic of Congo), Brazilians and Algerians. If I was a betting man, and taking the Syrians out of the equation for obvious reasons, the vast majority in our top 10 countries arrived by plane into our country, and bypassed other safe countries; no walking across deserts for the Albanians or Brazilians or Georgians (?; why Georgia).

I wonder if those supporters of our country's open doors are that naive? But since they are very vocal and their comments are broadly reported by the Irish media; I also wonder if the country's politicians believe that this is the majority view? It is certainly not the majority view in my heavily taxed and resource-starved community.

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants. Meanwhile, in other news, Ireland's carer of the year has to fundraise to get what their very sick son needs. There are many, many other examples. Due to funding issues, off-hours mental health services are not available to our children and teenagers in many counties across Ireland. Maybe we are not as rich as some people think, and maybe we should be putting the resources allocated for the needy of Brazil, Nigeria and Albania, into Ireland's local services where there is an obvious need.

South Africans are in the top 10. Is that the Boer people?

Victor · 25-11-2018 12:07PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants.

The state funds these services through general taxation, not through a special tax on the resident within X distance of a direct provision centre.

Needles73 wrote: »

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

But we also have assets. Those assets exceed the debts.

Fiery mutant · 25-11-2018 12:09PM

"It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

I have no problem opening our doors to those in need. It’s when they abuse that generosity that boils my blood. Open it, by all means, but be prepared to slam it shut.

_Brian · 25-11-2018 12:09PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ireland is a rich country - visit a poor one and you'll know that.

Everything else is just argument about how the money is spent.

I absolutely agree with this.
I’m not sure what measure we’re holding ourselves to, it’s no UAE but Ireland is a great place to live.

On the whole healthcare, education, employment, freedom of speech, mostly crime is under control. We don’t have natural disasters to worry about.

If you think we have things tough get yourself out to a second or third world country and see how tough things are.

Even compared to the 1970’s when I grew up we have become a staggeringly affluent population with massive uptake in education and increases in life expectancy.

TheValeyard · 25-11-2018 12:11PM

Doesnt feel like we're rich. So many have so little.

_Brian · 25-11-2018 12:12PM

Fiery mutant wrote: »

"It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

I have no problem opening our doors to those in need. It’s when they abuse that generosity that boils my blood. Open it, by all means, but be prepared to slam it shut.

People are here unnecessarily because the departments won’t make timely decisions. We need to move on these things quickly Grant or deny asylum returning those who don’t get it to their origin country, get the rest out to work.

Allinall · 25-11-2018 12:14PM

Needles73 wrote: »

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

Being in debt has no bearing on a country’s “richness”.

Ability to service debt does, and Ireland is easily able to service our debt.

We are, by any reasonable measure a rich country.

_Brian · 25-11-2018 12:15PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Doesnt feel like we're rich. So many have so little.

A country being a good place to live isn’t all about wealth, people are well looked after and there are plenty of opportunities out there to improve your life.

piplip87 · 25-11-2018 12:16PM

It's a tricky one. We do need a system like Australia or Canada where we only take in non EU workers that we have a skill gap for.

Asylum applicants should be from only countries where there is a war and any application should be thoroughly checked. We do not need any extremists.

The amount of people blaming the homeless crisis on immigrants is just wrong.

I have a friend who has never worked a day in his life. During the last boom he claims he couldn't get work because of the immigrants. When the dole was cut during the recession it was the immigrants faults, when he was called to Jobpath or courses he was moaning that the immigrants didn't get hassled like he was. Now that there is jobs and a bit of employment again guess who's fault it is ?

The one worry I do have is though is that by suggesting sensible discussions on immigration the far left and sections of the media will brand anybody who wants is as right wing. These people will then feel silenced and bloom we will have an Irish Tommy Robinson on our hands

Grab All Association · 25-11-2018 12:16PM

I’ve said it before that some of theses people no doubt need asylum. They should be sent to the door of the USA, UK, France, Australia etc who destabilised their countries. Or at least bill them for it.

Me, you i.e the Irish tax payer shouldn’t have to pay one cent towards this. The majority of us opposed and protested against military occupation in these countries. The USA and UK can take them all in.

sasta le · 25-11-2018 12:18PM

Look at a lot of the “poor” 3rd level students cars phones clothes etc

snotboogie · 25-11-2018 12:21PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country.

Yes we are, even the pockets of this country which we consider poor (mostly around the border and isolated parts of Connacht) are nothing remarkable even by Western European standards. The idea that places like Galway, Cork and Kildare are not rich by international standards is laughable

Richard Hillman · 25-11-2018 12:21PM

We have no obligation to these ****hole. Their countries are terrible because their people ruined it. Why would we import the people who make their countries so terrible?

namloc1980 · 25-11-2018 12:22PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Doesnt feel like we're rich. So many have so little.

People need to get out and improve their lot also. Not sit back and wait for the welfare cheques to roll in. Ireland has plenty of opportunities but you need to work hard to get there, not sit around waiting for it to happen.

Needles73 · 25-11-2018 12:23PM

Allinall wrote: »

Being in debt has no bearing on a country’s “richness”.

Ability to service debt does, and Ireland is easily able to service our debt.

We are, by any reasonable measure a rich country.

We are a basket case banana republic with an over reliance on a handful of multinationals who are here for tax avoidance. We don’t have any natural resources of note and the time is running out until tax systems are eventually harmonized. “Richness” has nothing to do with debt......I think your mistaken.

namloc1980 · 25-11-2018 12:25PM

Needles73 wrote: »

We are a basket case banana republic with an over reliance on a handful of multinationals who are here for tax avoidance. We don’t have any natural resources of note and the time is running out until tax systems are eventually harmonized. “Richness” has nothing to do with debt......I think your mistaken.

The vast majority of employment in this country is SMEs not a handful of multinationals.

25-11-2018 12:28PM

2nd wealthiest country in the EU.

"On a national GDP-per-capita level, Ireland sits in second place behind Luxembourg, althoughÂ Irish figures have been distorted by multinational companiesâ€™ activities"

namloc1980 · 25-11-2018 12:32PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

2nd wealthiest country in the EU.

"On a national GDP-per-capita level, Ireland sits in second place behind Luxembourg, although Irish figures have been distorted by multinational companies’ activities"

Luxembourg has an even more skewed number of multinationals who are headquartered there relative to Ireland.

Victor · 25-11-2018 12:37PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

We have no obligation to these ****hole. Their countries are terrible because their people ruined it. Why would we import the people who make their countries so terrible?

That's like blaming you for the actions of De Velera.

Your average refugee is a victim, not a perpetrator.

darlett · 25-11-2018 12:38PM

Needles73 wrote: »

We are a basket case banana republic with an over reliance on a handful of multinationals who are here for tax avoidance. We don’t have any natural resources of note and the time is running out until tax systems are eventually harmonized. “Richness” has nothing to do with debt......I think your mistaken.

Your definition of rich or poor country due to debt would have the United States as an absolute pauper. And that would be a mistake.
We have less debt than them, ergo we are richer than America, hurrah.

Needles73 · 25-11-2018 12:39PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

The vast majority of employment in this country is SMEs not a handful of multinationals.

Explain to me how SMEs create any transfer of significant wealth into country ? Those that do principally export to uk and that’s going to go to crap. Employment doesn’t create wealth.

Mad_maxx · 25-11-2018 12:42PM

Ireland is very rich but that's irrelevant as to whether we continue to indulge this "direct provision" racket.

Richard Hillman · 25-11-2018 12:43PM

Victor wrote: »

That's like blaming you for the actions of De Velera.

Your average refugee is a victim, not a perpetrator.

It's the people that make a place.

Spleerbun · 25-11-2018 12:45PM

piplip87 wrote: »

It's a tricky one. We do need a system like Australia or Canada where we only take in non EU workers that we have a skill gap for.

Asylum applicants should be from only countries where there is a war and any application should be thoroughly checked. We do not need any extremists.

The amount of people blaming the homeless crisis on immigrants is just wrong.

I have a friend who has never worked a day in his life. During the last boom he claims he couldn't get work because of the immigrants. When the dole was cut during the recession it was the immigrants faults, when he was called to Jobpath or courses he was moaning that the immigrants didn't get hassled like he was. Now that there is jobs and a bit of employment again guess who's fault it is ?

The one worry I do have is though is that by suggesting sensible discussions on immigration the far left and sections of the media will brand anybody who wants is as right wing. These people will then feel silenced and bloom we will have an Irish Tommy Robinson on our hands

Agree fully with this post.

namloc1980 · 25-11-2018 12:57PM

Needles73 wrote: »

Explain to me how SMEs create any transfer of significant wealth into country ? Those that do principally export to uk and that’s going to go to crap. Employment doesn’t create wealth.

The UK represents 14% of Irish exports. Significant but not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things.

Dude89 · 25-11-2018 12:58PM

The problem is issuing Leave To Remain Visas to failed Asylum Seekers after 9 years of appeals.

SafeSurfer · 25-11-2018 01:18PM

Victor wrote: »

Kivaro wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants.

The state funds these services through general taxation, not through a special tax on the resident within X distance of a direct provision centre.

Needles73 wrote: »

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

But we also have assets. Those assets exceed the debts.

The main “asset” of course is future income stream from taxation.

We are a rich country.

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