We are a rich country.

Kivaro

That was a comment I saw this morning, as I read about the new Direct Provision hotel in Moville, Donegal. Followed by the comment: "It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

After reading the article, the demographic of the people supporting the conversion of the hotel into a Direct Provision center seem to be the same type of people supporting the opening of our doors to the world's needy. Another supporter of this view (a college lecturer in the northwest) stated that "if people have to queue a bit longer at the doctor's surgery or make room in the classrooms for more children, it's a small price to pay compared to what the people seeking asylum have gone through."
She goes on to say" "Most people who are coming won't even be in this country yet. They will be walking across deserts or hitching rides in trucks as we speak."

The top 10 nationalities applying for "international protection" (must be the new phrase that we have to use for the asylum process) in Ireland are: Georgians, Albanians, Syrians, Zimbabweans, Pakistanis, Nigerians, South Africans, Congolese (from the Democratic Republic of Congo), Brazilians and Algerians. If I was a betting man, and taking the Syrians out of the equation for obvious reasons, the vast majority in our top 10 countries arrived by plane into our country, and bypassed other safe countries; no walking across deserts for the Albanians or Brazilians or Georgians (?; why Georgia).

I wonder if those supporters of our country's open doors are that naive? But since they are very vocal and their comments are broadly reported by the Irish media; I also wonder if the country's politicians believe that this is the majority view? It is certainly not the majority view in my heavily taxed and resource-starved community.

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants. Meanwhile, in other news, Ireland's carer of the year has to fundraise to get what their very sick son needs. There are many, many other examples. Due to funding issues, off-hours mental health services are not available to our children and teenagers in many counties across Ireland. Maybe we are not as rich as some people think, and maybe we should be putting the resources allocated for the needy of Brazil, Nigeria and Albania, into Ireland's local services where there is an obvious need.

Harry Palmr

Ireland is a rich country - visit a poor one and you'll know that.

Everything else is just argument about how the money is spent.

Needles73

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ireland is a rich country - visit a poor one and you'll know that.

Everything else is just argument about how the money is spent.

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

Trigger Happy

Any country that pays its perpetually unemployed €200 a week is not poor op.

backspin.

Kivaro wrote: »

That was a comment I saw this morning, as I read about the new Direct Provision hotel in Moville, Donegal. Followed by the comment: "It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

After reading the article, the demographic of the people supporting the conversion of the hotel into a Direct Provision center seem to be the same type of people supporting the opening of our doors to the world's needy. Another supporter of this view (a college lecturer in the northwest) stated that "if people have to queue a bit longer at the doctor's surgery or make room in the classrooms for more children, it's a small price to pay compared to what the people seeking asylum have gone through."
She goes on to say" "Most people who are coming won't even be in this country yet. They will be walking across deserts or hitching rides in trucks as we speak."

The top 10 nationalities applying for "international protection" (must be the new phrase that we have to use for the asylum process) in Ireland are: Georgians, Albanians, Syrians, Zimbabweans, Pakistanis, Nigerians, South Africans, Congolese (from the Democratic Republic of Congo), Brazilians and Algerians. If I was a betting man, and taking the Syrians out of the equation for obvious reasons, the vast majority in our top 10 countries arrived by plane into our country, and bypassed other safe countries; no walking across deserts for the Albanians or Brazilians or Georgians (?; why Georgia).

I wonder if those supporters of our country's open doors are that naive? But since they are very vocal and their comments are broadly reported by the Irish media; I also wonder if the country's politicians believe that this is the majority view? It is certainly not the majority view in my heavily taxed and resource-starved community.

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants. Meanwhile, in other news, Ireland's carer of the year has to fundraise to get what their very sick son needs. There are many, many other examples. Due to funding issues, off-hours mental health services are not available to our children and teenagers in many counties across Ireland. Maybe we are not as rich as some people think, and maybe we should be putting the resources allocated for the needy of Brazil, Nigeria and Albania, into Ireland's local services where there is an obvious need.

South Africans are in the top 10. Is that the Boer people?

Victor

Kivaro wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants.

The state funds these services through general taxation, not through a special tax on the resident within X distance of a direct provision centre.

Needles73 wrote: »

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

But we also have assets. Those assets exceed the debts.

Fiery mutant

"It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

I have no problem opening our doors to those in need. It’s when they abuse that generosity that boils my blood. Open it, by all means, but be prepared to slam it shut.

_Brian

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ireland is a rich country - visit a poor one and you'll know that.

Everything else is just argument about how the money is spent.

I absolutely agree with this.
I’m not sure what measure we’re holding ourselves to, it’s no UAE but Ireland is a great place to live.

On the whole healthcare, education, employment, freedom of speech, mostly crime is under control. We don’t have natural disasters to worry about.

If you think we have things tough get yourself out to a second or third world country and see how tough things are.

Even compared to the 1970’s when I grew up we have become a staggeringly affluent population with massive uptake in education and increases in life expectancy.

TheValeyard

Doesnt feel like we're rich. So many have so little.

_Brian

Fiery mutant wrote: »

"It would be a dereliction of our duty to humanity not to open our doors to those in need."

I have no problem opening our doors to those in need. It’s when they abuse that generosity that boils my blood. Open it, by all means, but be prepared to slam it shut.

People are here unnecessarily because the departments won’t make timely decisions. We need to move on these things quickly Grant or deny asylum returning those who don’t get it to their origin country, get the rest out to work.

Allinall

Needles73 wrote: »

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

Being in debt has no bearing on a country’s “richness”.

Ability to service debt does, and Ireland is easily able to service our debt.

We are, by any reasonable measure a rich country.

_Brian

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Doesnt feel like we're rich. So many have so little.

A country being a good place to live isn’t all about wealth, people are well looked after and there are plenty of opportunities out there to improve your life.

piplip87

It's a tricky one. We do need a system like Australia or Canada where we only take in non EU workers that we have a skill gap for.

Asylum applicants should be from only countries where there is a war and any application should be thoroughly checked. We do not need any extremists.

The amount of people blaming the homeless crisis on immigrants is just wrong.

I have a friend who has never worked a day in his life. During the last boom he claims he couldn't get work because of the immigrants. When the dole was cut during the recession it was the immigrants faults, when he was called to Jobpath or courses he was moaning that the immigrants didn't get hassled like he was. Now that there is jobs and a bit of employment again guess who's fault it is ?

The one worry I do have is though is that by suggesting sensible discussions on immigration the far left and sections of the media will brand anybody who wants is as right wing. These people will then feel silenced and bloom we will have an Irish Tommy Robinson on our hands

Grab All Association

I’ve said it before that some of theses people no doubt need asylum. They should be sent to the door of the USA, UK, France, Australia etc who destabilised their countries. Or at least bill them for it.

Me, you i.e the Irish tax payer shouldn’t have to pay one cent towards this. The majority of us opposed and protested against military occupation in these countries. The USA and UK can take them all in.

sasta le

Look at a lot of the “poor” 3rd level students cars phones clothes etc

snotboogie

Kivaro wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country.

Yes we are, even the pockets of this country which we consider poor (mostly around the border and isolated parts of Connacht) are nothing remarkable even by Western European standards. The idea that places like Galway, Cork and Kildare are not rich by international standards is laughable

Richard Hillman

We have no obligation to these ****hole. Their countries are terrible because their people ruined it. Why would we import the people who make their countries so terrible?

namloc1980

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Doesnt feel like we're rich. So many have so little.

People need to get out and improve their lot also. Not sit back and wait for the welfare cheques to roll in. Ireland has plenty of opportunities but you need to work hard to get there, not sit around waiting for it to happen.

Needles73

Allinall wrote: »

Being in debt has no bearing on a country’s “richness”.

Ability to service debt does, and Ireland is easily able to service our debt.

We are, by any reasonable measure a rich country.

We are a basket case banana republic with an over reliance on a handful of multinationals who are here for tax avoidance. We don’t have any natural resources of note and the time is running out until tax systems are eventually harmonized. “Richness” has nothing to do with debt......I think your mistaken.

namloc1980

Needles73 wrote: »

We are a basket case banana republic with an over reliance on a handful of multinationals who are here for tax avoidance. We don’t have any natural resources of note and the time is running out until tax systems are eventually harmonized. “Richness” has nothing to do with debt......I think your mistaken.

The vast majority of employment in this country is SMEs not a handful of multinationals.

Sleeper12

2nd wealthiest country in the EU.

"On a national GDP-per-capita level, Ireland sits in second place behind Luxembourg, although Irish figures have been distorted by multinational companies’ activities"

namloc1980

Sleeper12 wrote: »

2nd wealthiest country in the EU.

"On a national GDP-per-capita level, Ireland sits in second place behind Luxembourg, although Irish figures have been distorted by multinational companies’ activities"

Luxembourg has an even more skewed number of multinationals who are headquartered there relative to Ireland.

Victor

Richard Hillman wrote: »

We have no obligation to these ****hole. Their countries are terrible because their people ruined it. Why would we import the people who make their countries so terrible?

That's like blaming you for the actions of De Velera.

Your average refugee is a victim, not a perpetrator.

darlett

Needles73 wrote: »

We are a basket case banana republic with an over reliance on a handful of multinationals who are here for tax avoidance. We don’t have any natural resources of note and the time is running out until tax systems are eventually harmonized. “Richness” has nothing to do with debt......I think your mistaken.

Your definition of rich or poor country due to debt would have the United States as an absolute pauper. And that would be a mistake.
We have less debt than them, ergo we are richer than America, hurrah.

Needles73

namloc1980 wrote: »

The vast majority of employment in this country is SMEs not a handful of multinationals.

Explain to me how SMEs create any transfer of significant wealth into country ? Those that do principally export to uk and that’s going to go to crap. Employment doesn’t create wealth.

Mad_maxx

Ireland is very rich but that's irrelevant as to whether we continue to indulge this "direct provision" racket.

Richard Hillman

Victor wrote: »

That's like blaming you for the actions of De Velera.

Your average refugee is a victim, not a perpetrator.

It's the people that make a place.

Spleerbun

piplip87 wrote: »

It's a tricky one. We do need a system like Australia or Canada where we only take in non EU workers that we have a skill gap for.

Asylum applicants should be from only countries where there is a war and any application should be thoroughly checked. We do not need any extremists.

The amount of people blaming the homeless crisis on immigrants is just wrong.

I have a friend who has never worked a day in his life. During the last boom he claims he couldn't get work because of the immigrants. When the dole was cut during the recession it was the immigrants faults, when he was called to Jobpath or courses he was moaning that the immigrants didn't get hassled like he was. Now that there is jobs and a bit of employment again guess who's fault it is ?

The one worry I do have is though is that by suggesting sensible discussions on immigration the far left and sections of the media will brand anybody who wants is as right wing. These people will then feel silenced and bloom we will have an Irish Tommy Robinson on our hands

Agree fully with this post.

namloc1980

Needles73 wrote: »

Explain to me how SMEs create any transfer of significant wealth into country ? Those that do principally export to uk and that’s going to go to crap. Employment doesn’t create wealth.

The UK represents 14% of Irish exports. Significant but not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things.

Dude89

The problem is issuing Leave To Remain Visas to failed Asylum Seekers after 9 years of appeals.

SafeSurfer

Victor wrote: »

Kivaro wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, we are not a rich country. We cannot afford non-genuine asylum claimants.

The state funds these services through general taxation, not through a special tax on the resident within X distance of a direct provision centre.

Needles73 wrote: »

Ireland is up to its eyeballs in debt. Being broke is having no money. So we are in fact worse than being broke.

But we also have assets. Those assets exceed the debts.

The main “asset” of course is future income stream from taxation.

Needles73

namloc1980 wrote: »

The UK represents 14% of Irish exports. Significant but not a huge amount in the grand scheme of things.

After I mentioned we were over reliant on a few multinationals you pointed out “The vast majority of employment in this country is SMEs not a handful of multinationals”.
When I pointed out SMEs don’t export much and those that do export to UK you then belittled that at 14%. That just further proves my point. Employment doesn’t generate wealth to a country unless it brings money into the country. Ie we need to export goods or services.

biko

As long as everyone on this thread have different views on what rich is this thread is never going to get anywhere

darlett

Needles73 wrote: »

After I mentioned we were over reliant on a few multinationals you pointed out “The vast majority of employment in this country is SMEs not a handful of multinationals”.
When I pointed out SMEs don’t export much and those that do export to UK you then belittled that at 14%. That just further proves my point. Employment doesn’t generate wealth to a country unless it brings money into the country. Ie we need to export goods or services.

You have to be spoon fed is it? That absolutely does not prove your point. If his figure is correct and UK exports plummet fron that 14% to 0%, which of course it wont but lets keep things suitably simple, then that will still leave 86% of current exports on the table. It ll be a big knock of course. As big a knock as taking 14% from 100% would be i.e. significant but...
Dismissing multinationals AND SMEs and employment in general...where or how else exactly should we be making our capital? Open some diamond mines perhaps?

BrianD3

Second richest country in the world.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/were-second-richest-nation-in-the-world-finds-report-38716.html

Seeing as we are so rich (and our national debt certainly won't quadruple in the next 10 years) we should take in asylum seekers while cutting taxes and increasing social welfare and public sector pay. Party time!

corner of hells

The hotel in Donegal is on fire at the moment , warm welcome and all that.

ressem

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's the people that make a place.

Seems very simplistic & complacent.

Trade has nothing to contribute? A millennium of history of interaction with neighbouring cultures, investment and technology from other countries and churches / multinationals? An inherited well established set of laws from a neighbouring state.

How about just Luck? The liberator and creator of the fledgling state turns out to be a corrupt self-server, and creates a corrupt self-protecting clique around him / her that strangles the country for half a century with a dilemma of civil war vs poverty.
DeValera's isolationism "self sufficiency" likely increased poverty levels; if a Haughey alike character had been in his place, with a fledgling legal system that he could dominate, maybe we would have our state & parliament degenerating into a South America / Africa alike system.

The way parliaments in the US, UK, Ireland are degenerating into divisive marketing about "our party" vs "your party". and who cares about the issues, we might still go the same way.

Pinch Flat

Ireland might be a rich country, but we can’t sort out the basics - health, education, childcare, infrastructure. We’re a 2nd / 3rd tier country when compared to other more advance European nations.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ireland might be a rich country, but we can’t sort out the basics - health, education, childcare, infrastructure. We’re a 2nd / 3rd tier country when compared to other more advance European nations.

That's because the government is constantly bending over backwards to appease the unions. Almost all of Ireland's education spending goes on salaries and pensions for teachers (who earn much more than teachers in most other European countries and work fewer days per year) while other aspects of education are grossly under-resourced. There are 1,300 prefab classrooms in the country.

Frunchy

What income per year is considered rich to people?

Augme

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ireland might be a rich country, but we can’t sort out the basics - health, education, childcare, infrastructure. We’re a 2nd / 3rd tier country when compared to other more advance European nations.

This is the problem. We are a rich country but we are managed terribly. No amount of extra money given to the Hse will make much difference.n

Roger_007

Whenever there is any public discussion about wealth and poverty, we are always talking about relative wealth or poverty. By world standards, everyone in Ireland is wealthy. We make the mistake of just comparing groups of people within the country with each other. We define poverty of income as having an income of less than two thirds of the average.
Just as a silly example, if you lived in a village where everyone except you had an average annual income of €1 million and your income was 'only' €500k, then by the current definition of poverty you would be poor.
We are a rich country.....it's just that some of us are richer than others.

4068ac1elhodqr

'Rich is irrelevant' it's disposable wealth, after all essential purchases that's important.
The uk may have a slightly lower average wage but they shop with 30% savings on most high-street items.

If the average graduate has to bust their balls, with blood sweat and tears for a little 1bed box apartment,
within 1hrs commute (each way) of their place of work, they're not rich in wealth or other.

Over in timbuktu or tahiti sure build you own mudhut for free, pump your own water, and pick fruit from the trees.
No need to worry much about heating, insurance, traffic jams, expenses, tax or polution, just get a big palm leaf to keep chilled after a dip in the local watering hole.
Sit back and watch the stars, roast wild boar by the camp fire, enjoy the local moonshine after giving your lady unstressed special romance time.

The cheapest internet in the world is over in Iran, $5usd per month, they're 'data-rich'.

Gimme A Pound

Needles73 wrote: »

We are a basket case banana republic

Where do people get this tripe from? No we are not.

Try Venezuela.

Frunchy

People are over exaggerating. We rank quite well in education. Healthcare system by global standards isn't terrible either, service for genuine medical emergencies is generally excellent. Chances of being killed in a public mass shooting are quite low too.

evolving tipperary

A country rich with inequality. We have wealth and assets. But it's disproportionate to the population. Just like any other country or tribe. I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE.

ressem

Rylan Black Tattoo wrote: »

That's because the government is constantly bending over backwards to appease the unions. Almost all of Ireland's education spending goes on salaries and pensions for teachers (who earn much more than teachers in most other European countries and work fewer days per year) while other aspects of education are grossly under-resourced. There are 1,300 prefab classrooms in the country.

I spent 5 years of primary school in prefabs, and they were poorly insulated when compared against the current versions. As a consequence I am disinclined to consider this as an outrageous situation & vote changer.

Low expectations maybe, but not something that justifies calling Ireland poor.

Nowadays many of our problems can be fixed when we have the will to do so, at a fraction of the difficulty that this would have taken at the past. Schools can have large 2 storey wings, shipped in, assembled and fitted over a summer holidays.

The departmentalisation of problems & solutions does not help; and lack of co-operation between departments protecting 'their' budgets.
E.g. fewer GPs per head of population doing house visits causing increased hospitalisation days, at vastly higher cost.
Is the solution a doubling in the educational places of medical trainees, and what should be cut to balance the books?

rossie1977

snotboogie wrote: »

Yes we are, even the pockets of this country which we consider poor (mostly around the border and isolated parts of Connacht) are nothing remarkable even by Western European standards. The idea that places like Galway, Cork and Kildare are not rich by international standards is laughable

Drive around the most rural parts of county Roscommon, Mayo or Leitrim and on every little country lane you will see big houses with 2-3 cars sitting outside. Graveyards are filled with €5-20,000 headstones..if people are poor here they certainly are getting money somewhere to flaunt.

You don't see entire streets of Irish cities taken over by homeless people or huge communities of trailer parks like you do in the States. I have been to Morocco where it's not uncommon to see huge holes in the roads of major cities and water/sewage flowing down the street. Go to Brazil and it seems there is a favela around every corner of big cities. Visit south Africa and there are huge townships where tens of thousands of people are living in tin huts just miles from some of the biggest tourist destinations on the planet. I haven't even visited anywhere which is considered really poor or in major political strife.

Ireland has it's problems sure but on a global scale the vast majority of our population live in relative comfort if you compare to all but say top 20 nations on Earth.

Needles73

Jaden Scary Chinchilla wrote: »

Where do people get this tripe from? No we are not.

Try Venezuela.

Venezuela is a bigger basket case !! It’s a sliding scale.

riclad

In comparison to other countrys we are rich ,
we are in the eu, we use the euro.
We dont have large forest fires ,or floods, hurricanes like the usa .
The average price of imported goods in the uk might rise after brexit ,
when britain is no longer in the eu.

rossie1977

Not sure how accurate this list is https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=105