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The Hazards of Belief

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    More than 200 mass graves containing thousands of bodies have been found in areas of Iraq that were once controlled by the Islamic State (IS) group, a UN investigation has found.
    The graves were found in the north and western governorates of Nineveh, Kirkuk, Salahuddin and Anbar.
    They could contain as many as 12,000 victims, the UN report said.


    (my bold)
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-46108248


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    A American missionary has been killed by arrows after illegally landing on an island inhabited by a protected and famously hostile indigenous population;

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/1121/1012318-andaman-islands/

    What fvcking moron. I wonder did he think Jesus was going to protect him and help "convert the savages" or some other arrogant bull****.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,945 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    seamus wrote: »
    A American missionary has been killed by arrows after illegally landing on an island inhabited by a protected and famously hostile indigenous population;

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/1121/1012318-andaman-islands/

    What fvcking moron. I wonder did he think Jesus was going to protect him and help "convert the savages" or some other arrogant bull****.


    where does it say he was a missionary? it says he was a tourist


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    where does it say he was a missionary? it says he was a tourist
    For whatever reason, Western media are describing him as an "adventure tourist", while media closer to the area are calling him a preacher/missionary, and a radical proselytising organisation are claiming him as one of their own.

    https://www.persecution.org/2018/11/20/american-missionary-reportedly-murdered-hostile-tribe-india/
    https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/american-tourist-killed-in-andaman-and-nicobar-islands-seven-arrested-1950906
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/american-tourist-killed-on-andaman-island-home-to-uncontacted-peoples-1393013-2018-11-21


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    It seems wrong to arrest the tribesmen, when they made it very plain that they don't want visitors. The risk of death to them by introduced diseases would be very real, and especially as they lack modern medical facilities.
    "Their island, their rules" I reckon.


    They are an interesting group of people, and probably the most stupid in the world. But also very happy in their way of life.
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/05/13/why-is-indias-iq-so-high/comment-page-1/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    recedite wrote: »
    It seems wrong to arrest the tribesmen

    They haven't arrested the tribesmen, and they won't.

    They arrested the fishermen who illegally brought the idiot to the island to be killed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Well that's good then. The report says
    Police have registered a case of murder and seven accused persons have been arrested.
    ..but as there were 7 fisherman who illegally transported the missionary, and then reported him killed, it must be they who were arrested.
    Its a strange legal arrangement, but it works I suppose.


    Its great that a tribe like this still exists in the world :)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    Its a strange legal arrangement, but it works I suppose.
    Odd, but reasonable (if not always workable) since the encroachment by outsiders to such isolated communities is likely to lead to widespread disease and death.

    The various remaining Andemann tribes fight back too, hence the general lack of much firm information about them or their strange languages.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andamanese
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andamanese_languages


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    where does it say he was a missionary? it says he was a tourist
    The BBC has looked into reports from locals and social media and the conclusion is that he seems to have been an adventurer mainly, but not one reluctant to engage people in religious chatter either.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46293221


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,590 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    seamus wrote: »
    For whatever reason, Western media are describing him as an "adventure tourist", while media closer to the area are calling him a preacher/missionary, and a radical proselytising organisation are claiming him as one of their own.

    Tread with caution. It suits the agenda of the "persecution.org" website to say that he was a martyr for jeebus. It also suits the Indian media, the atmosphere is growing more hostile to foreign missionaries in the last few years with a radical hindu party in power. The only evidence apart from hearsay so far appears to be a few god comments on his social media.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,590 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Anti-vaccine community behind North Carolina chickenpox outbreak
    A North Carolina school with a large anti-vaccine community is at the heart of the state's largest chickenpox outbreak in decades, officials say.

    On Friday 36 students at Asheville Waldorf School were diagnosed with the disease, the Asheville Citizen-Times newspaper reported.

    The school has one of the state's highest rates of religious exemption, allowing students to skip vaccination.

    US health officials say vaccinating is far safer than getting chickenpox.

    "This is the biggest chickenpox outbreak state health officials are aware of since the vaccine became available," a North Carolina Department of Health spokesman told the BBC in an emailed statement.

    Out of the Waldorf School's 152 students, 110 have not received the vaccine for the varicella virus, known to most as chickenpox, the Citizen-Times found.

    And 67.9% of the school's kindergarten students had religious immunisation exemptions on file in the 2017-2018 school year, according to state data.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    BBC]Out of the Waldorf School's 152 students, 110 have not received the vaccine for the varicella virus, known to most as chickenpox, the Citizen-Times found.
    Not surprising that this happened at a Waldorf/Steiner outlet - they're well known for having very high vaccine exemption rates and the Waldorf/Steiner movement has been fixed within the hairs of skeptic movements for many years:

    https://vaxopedia.org/2016/10/13/waldorf-schools-and-vaccines/
    https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/steiner.html
    https://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/waldorf_steiner_and_education
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Waldorf_education


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    recedite wrote: »
    They are an interesting group of people, and probably the most stupid in the world. But also very happy in their way of life.
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/05/13/why-is-indias-iq-so-high/comment-page-1/
    I'd be fascinated to see what other websites you're googling for at home, given that what I assume is another home-search returned this pumpkinperson website!

    Regardless of the difficulty the author has in writing clear, grammatical English, or their interest in producing long multiple-choice questions, or their single-minded obsession with IQ (a number which more orthodox academics regard these days as crude and ineffective), there are some very strange postings indeed. This one, more or less at random, compares the cranial capacities of Ellen DeGeneres and Oprah Winfrey by means of screenshots + rulers.

    https://pumpkinperson.com/2018/08/28/oprah-vs-ellen-cranial-capacity/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Indeed, that comparison was quite fascinating, was it not :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,590 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's now 40 years since the Jonestown massacre.

    If you're so inclined, you can listen to Jones's final ramblings here or via the Wikipedia page. Listener discretion is advised, as they say.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,451 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Do people normally get chicken pox vaccine? I never did and it is not part of the usual suite of vaccines given to kids afair

    when my kids got it doctors were not overly concerned other than the prospect of scarring


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,598 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Do people normally get chicken pox vaccine? I never did and it is not part of the usual suite of vaccines given to kids afair

    when my kids got it doctors were not overly concerned other than the prospect of scarring
    Chicken pox vaccination is not a routine childhood vaccination in Ireland, but it is in a number of countries, notably the United States.

    In Ireland, people normally get vaccinated the natural way, by contracting the disease in childhood. In children it's not a threatening disease, and one infection typically confers lifelong immunity. Some parents make a point of exposing their children to chicken pox so that they will develop immunity.

    (Immunity doesn't mean that you can't get, or carry, the infection; just that you won't suffer any symptoms. So you can be immune, and still serve as a vector of infection for others.)

    In adulthood it's a much more serious disease. It can be lethal, and even if not itself lethal can lead to pneumonia, meningitis or encephalitis, each of which can itself be lethal. Infection in pregnant women can produce severe deformities in the infant.

    So, yeah, introducing it to a population with zero natural immunity (and, of course, zero immunisation) could be catastrophic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,451 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    But the quote

    'US health officials say vaccinating is far safer than getting chickenpox' is BS then considering that the article is about children.
    How it transmits to non immunized adults is the key issue that does not seem to be mentioned in the article


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I feel we're a little behind the times on this. We consider chickenpox to be "just another thing kids get". 50 years ago they said that about the mumps and measles.

    To the typical/average sufferer, chickenpox generally poses little threat beyond a couple of days of discomfort.

    It's the non-typical categories of people to whom it presents a greater threat - infants, pregnant women, immunocompromised people, people with lung diseases (such as CF), older people, etc.

    Chickenpox is also effectively a lifelong illness, like herpes. The varicella zoster virus sits dormant in the body and can be reactivated at any time, resulting in shingles. Shingles too, can spread chickenpox to people who have not had it.

    We downplay it, but there is no good argument for favouring infection above vaccination other than, "Ah sure, be grand".


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    seamus wrote: »
    To the typical/average sufferer, chickenpox generally poses little threat beyond a couple of days of discomfort.

    Chickenpox is also effectively a lifelong illness, like herpes. The varicella zoster virus sits dormant in the body and can be reactivated at any time, resulting in shingles. Shingles too, can spread chickenpox to people who have not had it.
    Yes, as you say, chickenpox itself isn't a major problem. On the other hand, shingles can be literally a major pain in the ass for anybody who's ever suffered a dose on their S3 or higher nerve pathways, and especially those brave souls who've had to endure long-haul flights with S3 infections, for whom I have the deepest and most septic sympathies.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    seamus wrote: »
    A American missionary has been killed by arrows after illegally landing on an island inhabited by a protected and famously hostile indigenous population
    Seems Mr Chau was there for Jesus after all.

    According to diary entries released by his family, he was repeatedly warned off by not only the islanders themselves, but also by Jesus, who caused an arrow to be shot towards Chau, but which instead became lodged in Chau's bible. Authorities have said it might take some time to recover the body from the shallow grave it appears to have been placed in by the islanders.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/john-allen-chau-man-killed-by-tribe-north-sentinel-island-declare-jesus


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,590 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    In their culture, being arrowed to death and bunged in a shallow grave is a great honour :cool:

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I hollered: ‘My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you.’ I regret I began to panic slightly as I saw them string arrows in their bows. I picked up the fish and threw it towards them. They kept coming.
    These words will go down in the annals of Famous Last Words.
    Farewell John, and godspeed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,590 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Is godspeed faster than leafspeed*? I don't think NASA ever defined it.



    * that slightly annoying just-a-bit-slower-than-everyone-except-HGVs speed EV owners do to eke out the range :p

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Is godspeed faster than leafspeed*?
    The EVs of course have phenomenal acceleration 0-60 mph. Its just that they tire easily, like a cheetah.


    I like godspeed because it sounds respectful, but it has a whimsical edge which is suited to certain special occasions.

    Anyway, I think we can probably deduce now that waving a fish at the Sentinelese is a terrible insult, or possibly waving the wrong species of fish is.
    Science and the sum of human knowledge has progressed on by that small amount, and for that we thank John and his noble sacrifice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,590 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well, it's probable the average planetary IQ went up ever so slightly.

    It went up a bit more than that when the "Jeesus will save me" guy climbed into a lion enclosure a while back.

    Gotta love those fundie xtians, making the planet smarter just by removing themselves from the gene pool ;)

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,451 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    It went up a bit more than that when the "Jeesus will save me" guy climbed into a lion enclosure a while back.

    A while back being 13 years ago. See post number 1 of this thread :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    https://twitter.com/UmmAlMumineen/status/1065955781831548928

    I hope this enlightened guy is ok, he could easily be killed in the future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Well, it's probable the average planetary IQ went up ever so slightly.

    It went up a bit more than that when the "Jeesus will save me" guy climbed into a lion enclosure a while back.

    Gotta love those fundie xtians, making the planet smarter just by removing themselves from the gene pool ;)
    Brilliant, you say it with such glee!!!


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    A while back being 13 years ago. See post number 1 of this thread :)
    Yikes :o


This discussion has been closed.
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