Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee poll not working - pl ignore

AbusesToilets · 17-11-2018 02:56PM

SO question to the knowledgeable folks, why bother with having a license at all? Surely the easier option would be to add a specific tax to tellys sold in the state? Perhaps to other electronics too, to spread out the burden and not increase prices too dramatically.

tayto lover · 17-11-2018 02:59PM

RTE is rubbish and a "jobs for the boys" organisation.
Not worth the licence fee.

Atlantic Dawn · 17-11-2018 03:01PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

SO question to the knowledgeable folks, why bother with having a license at all? Surely the easier option would be to add a specific tax to tellys sold in the state? Perhaps to other electronics too, to spread out the burden and not increase prices too dramatically.

Lifespan of a tv would be at least 5 years so you would need to add an extra €800 tax on the price of each tv at least to cover the current licence fee. People would start smuggling TV's.

What irritates me most is you pay the licence yet are subjected to not only adverts on every 15 minutes but almost every single show is sponsored and in addition has premium rate text numbers to tout some prize that they must make €50k plus on each prime time show from the €2 a go texts coming in.

kneemos · 17-11-2018 03:01PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

SO question to the knowledgeable folks, why bother with having a license at all? Surely the easier option would be to add a specific tax to tellys sold in the state? Perhaps to other electronics too, to spread out the burden and not increase prices too dramatically.

How do you know how long the telly will last?

AbusesToilets · 17-11-2018 03:07PM

kneemos wrote: »

How do you know how long the telly will last?

You could presumably make up the shortfall in other areas of taxation. As I mentioned, perhaps a general electronics tax, or some other area. I've no great love for giving out extra cash to the government, especially when the product is fairly **** in return, but if the voluntary process isn't successful, then they should look to other methods.

RabbleRouser2k · 17-11-2018 03:15PM

kneemos wrote: »

How do you know how long the telly will last?

It's reasonably accurate if its a plasma tv-they do burn out over time.

But televisions are less so. Have tv's that are about ten years old. And the TV my mom has is 24 years old-and still in working order.
Taxing tv's is possible, but it would be pointless.

kneemos · 17-11-2018 03:22PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

It's reasonably accurate if its a plasma tv-they do burn out over time.

But televisions are less so. Have tv's that are about ten years old. And the TV my mom has is 24 years old-and still in working order.
Taxing tv's is possible, but it would be pointless.

There are much easier ways to create a direct tax of that was their want.

A VAT increase on Telly's,phones and laptops for example.

RabbleRouser2k · 17-11-2018 03:25PM

kneemos wrote: »

There are much easier ways to create a direct tax of that was their want.

A VAT increase on Telly's,phones and laptops for example.

Was considered, then ruled out-children have laptops, phones and tvs too. You can't tax children.

kneemos · 17-11-2018 03:29PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Was considered, then ruled out-children have laptops, phones and tvs too. You can't tax children.

They already pay VAT.

sdanseo · 17-11-2018 03:33PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

SO question to the knowledgeable folks, why bother with having a license at all? Surely the easier option would be to add a specific tax to tellys sold in the state? Perhaps to other electronics too, to spread out the burden and not increase prices too dramatically.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You could presumably make up the shortfall in other areas of taxation.

Why should taxation pay for public broadcasting at all if it's not fir for purpose?

The only real argument for it is for keeping the news and current affairs elements unbiased and of decent quality. But as has been discussed, they are questionable at best in terms of bias, and of distinctly low quality.

We certainly don't want a US-style media, that would be even less desirable than seeing the license fee go up. But at the same time, we shouldn't be sinking hundreds of millions into a machine which delivers very little value for money. That money is better spent on other things. Perhaps a compromise with a new agency or broadcaster dedicated to truly impartial news and send all the cretins in Donnybrook off to pasture.

AbusesToilets · 17-11-2018 03:50PM

sdanseo wrote: »

Why should taxation pay for public broadcasting at all if it's not fir for purpose?

The only real argument for it is for keeping the news and current affairs elements unbiased and of decent quality. But as has been discussed, they are questionable at best in terms of bias, and of distinctly low quality.

We certainly don't want a US-style media, that would be even less desirable than seeing the license fee go up. But at the same time, we shouldn't be sinking hundreds of millions into a machine which delivers very little value for money. That money is better spent on other things. Perhaps a compromise with a new agency or broadcaster dedicated to truly impartial news and send all the cretins in Donnybrook off to pasture.

A reorganistion could be in order. Have RTE focus on news, journalism etc. Do away with the entertainment aspect altogether.

ButtersSuki · 17-11-2018 04:19PM

Graniteville wrote: »

RTE are restricted to approx. 6 min of advertising per hour - both TV & radio. Promos for other programmes are not considered adverts.

But that 6 mins is charged at full whack between 1pm & 3pm where Lunchtime news and Joe Duffy are on.

Commercial radio & TV are permitted a maximum of 12 minutes per hour.

That why you see some US or UK one hour shows taking 55min on RTE.

For the purposes of clarity, I never said anything about promos v adverts. You'd surely conceded that the average punter wouldn't know the difference between the two and once they're in an ad break they'd consider them ads?

Re. your comment in bold: Charged at full whack? Not at all, not even close, ever. There's a rate card -
https://mediasales.rte.ie/wp-content/uploads/RTE.1649.RATE-CARD-UPDATES.pdf
- on Liveline it goes from €1,042 to €2,061 per ad slot depending on the time of year - but nobody pays the rate card rate. It's always discounted as it's sold in packages to Ad Agencies or by RTE themselves. No-one buys one ad, they buy campaigns.

Obviously I don't have time to audit the entire year's show for ads and as I don't know the exact amount paid for each slot but RTÉ absolutely do. Given the paucity of PAID ADVERTISING on the show I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount of money that given the show's staff costs and noverheads (and this is before you include the costs of the junket fest that is Funny Friday or the various OB's that the show does) it doesn't break even.

Billy86 · 17-11-2018 04:37PM

kneemos wrote: »

What does Darragh Moloney do?

Also Bryan Dobson two hundred grand for reading a teleprompter. Surely that's a forty or fifty grand job at most.

He took over from "ah no Bill!" O'Herlihy presenting sports, mainly soccer. He's nit great but now awful, quite inoffensive though also quite bland. I wouldn't put the shortcomings of sports coverage on him, more on their dated model and lack of direction post dunphy (who had become a complete joke), but Moloney also doesn't have the strength to be the one to lift it so I can't say his salary is justified.

He's no on the Finucane/Duffy end of the scale though, I guess is my point.

Graniteville · 17-11-2018 04:42PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

As I'm sure it's been mentioned previously but the bigger "stars" all have private companies to which these fees are paid to enable tax avoidance at place the tax rate at 12.5% after all allowable expenses, deductibles etc. No pesky PAYE for this top talent! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Because as we all know the BBC, NBC, ABC, CNN etc. are all queueing up to poach them........

Quite obvious you have no clue about taxation.

Graniteville · 17-11-2018 04:55PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

For the purposes of clarity, I never said anything about promos v adverts. You'd surely conceded that the average punter wouldn't know the difference between the two and once they're in an ad break they'd consider them ads?

Re. your comment in bold: Charged at full whack? Not at all, not even close, ever. There's a rate card -
https://mediasales.rte.ie/wp-content/uploads/RTE.1649.RATE-CARD-UPDATES.pdf
- on Liveline it goes from €1,042 to €2,061 per ad slot depending on the time of year - but nobody pays the rate card rate. It's always discounted as it's sold in packages to Ad Agencies or by RTE themselves. No-one buys one ad, they buy campaigns.

Obviously I don't have time to audit the entire year's show for ads and as I don't know the exact amount paid for each slot but RTÉ absolutely do. Given the paucity of PAID ADVERTISING on the show I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount of money that given the show's staff costs and noverheads (and this is before you include the costs of the junket fest that is Funny Friday or the various OB's that the show does) it doesn't break even.

Most adverts on liveline are premium placements. Probably not at full rate card, but not discounted much

Estimated advert income for his radio show is in excess of €2.5m

There's a decent profit in that.

ButtersSuki · 17-11-2018 05:04PM

Graniteville wrote: »

Most adverts on liveline are premium placements. Probably not at full rate card, but not discounted much

Estimated advert income for his radio show is in excess of €2.5m

There's a decent profit in that.

Have you a source for that?

I’ll ignore your comment on my lack of knowledge on taxation.

Brendan Bendar · 17-11-2018 05:10PM

Graniteville wrote: »

Most adverts on liveline are premium placements. Probably not at full rate card, but not discounted much

Estimated advert income for his radio show is in excess of €2.5m

There's a decent profit in that.

Per hour?

Per show?

Per week?

Per month?

Per annum?

:rolleyes:

The J Stands for Jay · 17-11-2018 05:44PM

Graniteville wrote: »

Have a look at the programmes all of those people present and loom at the advertising revenue around those programmes. The Late late Toy show brings in well over 500k in sponsorship and advertising and even taking the production budget out, it gives a net profit of over 200k for that three hour slot.?

Yeah, but no one cares who presents the toy show. A rag on a stick could present it and still get the sponsors and ads in, and it'd be far more profitable.

Brendan Bendar · 17-11-2018 06:32PM

Graniteville wrote: »

Have a look at the programmes all of those people present and loom at the advertising revenue around those programmes. The Late late Toy show brings in well over 500k in sponsorship and advertising and even taking the production budget out, it gives a net profit of over 200k for that three hour slot.

D'Arcy and Duffy are two is just can't listen to or watch, but there are hundreds of thousands that do and again advertising and sponsorship ensure a very decent profit.

Live sports, esp GAA (excl the big matches) are big loss making programmes, but are essential for the mix. Similarly documentaries and programmes such as primetime require funding, but are essential too.

Its funny how everyone that complains about the licence only ever bring up the programmes that make strong profits?

That does not justify the obscene wages paid to those presenters.

For Jaysus sake!

Nicky Byrne on €200 k

Complete joke.

Signore Fancy Pants · 17-11-2018 06:47PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

That does not justify the obscene wages paid to those presenters.

For Jaysus sake!

Nicky Byrne on €200 k

Complete joke.

But its only €3,846 a week!

Bargain

kneemos · 17-11-2018 06:49PM

sdanseo wrote: »

I wouldn't get caught up in the individual presenter's salaries. Yeah, so 10 of them earn silly money.

It's what they're doing with the other €335m or so (€186m being licence fees) that concerns me.

The wages are a fart in the wind in fairness. The whole organisation is almost designed to be a money pit.

Graniteville · 17-11-2018 07:14PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I’ll ignore your comment on my lack of knowledge on taxation.

Because you have no clue?

Ask an accountant - they'll tell you how ridiculous your comment is

TallGlass · 17-11-2018 08:04PM

Always found it amazing they never release the salary's for the actors in Fair City, however with one seemingly living in California and commuting over to Dublin for the soap. I guess we can assume it's in the 4k a week range.

kneemos · 17-11-2018 08:10PM

TallGlass wrote: »

Always found it amazing they never release the salary's for the actors in Fair City, however with one seemingly living in California and commuting over to Dublin for the soap. I guess we can assume it's in the 4k a week range.

It's probably an independent production.

TallGlass · 17-11-2018 08:17PM

kneemos wrote: »

It's probably an independent production.

I think it says produced by RTE at the end of it. There is some loophole they use anyway. Hardly independent if it's facilities are on site and what are they trying to hide anyway?

I don't think it's right either that RTE facilitate tax dodging with employees by using there companies so they don't pay tax via PAYE like the rest of us.

A contractor is someone who comes in for 6/8 months, not 10+ years that an employee of the company.

kneemos · 17-11-2018 08:24PM

TallGlass wrote: »

I think it says produced by RTE at the end of it. There is some loophole they use anyway. Hardly independent if it's facilities are on site and what are they trying to hide anyway?

I don't think it's right either that RTE facilitate tax dodging with employees by using there companies so they don't pay tax via PAYE like the rest of us.

A contractor is someone who comes in for 6/8 months, not 10+ years that an employee of the company.

It is actually produced by RTE. One of the few things they make.

TallGlass · 17-11-2018 08:25PM

Overall I like RTE to be honest, however I would rather see it radical overhauled or 'scrapped' in the sense that it's broken down and rebuilt. It's financial situation is ridiculous, so bad that each household with a TV is bailing it out to the tune of nearly 180€ a year.

I would actually say, the licence fee needs to be reduced gradually and RTE made more accountable for there actions and making themselves competitive. The fee will never be removed and I don't think it should be removed fully to keep it somewhat independent (in theory).

But in typical Ireland style any major corp that pheks up is given a bailout at the taxpayers expense.

TallGlass · 17-11-2018 08:27PM

kneemos wrote: »

It is actually produced by RTE. One of the few things they make.

Thought so, I think the loophole is the staff are contractors or something is it?

Is there an overall figure for the production cost of Fair City so we can gauge how much the actors may get.

kneemos · 17-11-2018 08:32PM

TallGlass wrote: »

Thought so, I think the loophole is the staff are contractors or something is it?

Is there an overall figure for the production cost of Fair City so we can gauge how much the actors may get.

Over eleven million per year.

Presumably it sells ads and makes a net profit.

https://www.her.ie/entertainment/yikes-the-cost-per-episode-of-rtes-fair-city-has-been-revealed-268192

Sir Oxman · 17-11-2018 08:33PM

Bowlardo wrote: »

“OVER 8,000 EXTRA households bought a TV licence in 2017. The latest figures show that the total TV Licence sales for 2017 were 1,027,596 – an increase of 8,427 from 2016.“
So about 164 million in Tv license fees and over 150 million in advertising.
So well over 300 million coming it.
How are they in trouble and how is the content so poor.

Top 10 RTE presenter salaries in 2015:

10. Darragh Moloney €188,803 (not in 2014 figures)

9. Bryan Dobson - €195,913 (€195,816 in 2014)

8. Nicky Byrne €200,583 (not in 2014 figures)

7. Claire Byrne €201,500 (not in 2014 figures)

6. Sean O'Rourke - €290,113 (€290,096 in 2014)

5. Marian Finucane - €295,000 (€295,000 in 2014)

4. Miriam O'Callaghan - €299,000 (€280,445 in 2014)

3. Joe Duffy - €389,988 (€416,893 in 2014)

2. Ray D'Arcy €400,000 (not in 2014 figures)

1. Ryan Tubridy €495,000 (€495,000 in 2014)

Jaysus to all but mainly the underlined.
How?

Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee *poll not working - pl ignore*

Comments

Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee poll not working - pl ignore