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Journalism and cycling

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    #5492
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Not sure if it was posted at the time of reporting but last years stats for cyclists suffering injuries


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-350-cyclists-treated-for-head-injuries-in-irish-hospitals-last-year-1.3615589

    216 cyclists falling off their bikes (with no collision) and suffering head injuries seems high to me. I wonder what it is that causes these accidents?

    Why does it seem high?

    Honest question. There’s tens of thousands of sports cyclists alone.

    One context factor missing from the Irish Times (basically because their reporting lacks detailed knowledge of the issues) is that the those single vehicle collisions (they are collisions even without another vehicle) includes sporting collisions and off-road collisions — that’s at least according to medical researchers who I’ve had contact with.


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    #5493
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,628 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    ah right I hadnt considered the amount of injuries suffered by mountain bikers/racers, it makes sense now. Initially I thought it was cyclists going into potholes and over the handlebars and cracking their head but sporting injuries make more sense. The stats should really make sporting injuries more clear and separate them from other types of causes of injuries.


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    #5494
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,763 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Fian wrote: »
    Not even a suspended sentence for bus driver who killed cyclist by cutting corner.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/bus-driver-cyclist-death-4335560-Nov2018/
    I don't get this bit;

    During the trial, Orange told the jury that what killed Ms White was the head injury sustained when the back of her head hit the road. He said her helmet was not fastened and had only being resting on her head.
    The court heard the helmet was found on the road and could not be fastened. Detective Sergeant Kelly agreed that gardaí never retrieved any clip that might be used to fasten the helmet.


    How is it possible to ride with an unfastened helmet on your head? It would just fall off at the first corner surely?


    The fact that a clip was never found doesn't mean that there was no clip in place.


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    #5495
    Idleater
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    How is it possible to ride with an unfastened helmet on your head? It would just fall off at the first corner surely?
    I regularly see people on bikes with extremely loose straps and the helmet sat way back on the head. One lady even having to push it back as it kept slipping forward and to one side.
    They're in the same category as the flashing red light on the front and white on the back.


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    #5496
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    A correctly fitted helmet shouldn't need the straps to stay on you head. It should stay on with the other bits (which I have no idea what they are called!). The strap so it stays on after an initial impact. Since bicycle helmets aren't generally designed for multi impact collisions, certainly not with vehicles, the strap probably wouldn't do a whole lot either way imo.


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    #5497
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Fian wrote: »
    Not even a suspended sentence for bus driver who killed cyclist by cutting corner.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/bus-driver-cyclist-death-4335560-Nov2018/

    Manslaughter/murder are ok once its with a motorised vehicle.


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    #5498
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,614 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ED E wrote: »
    Manslaughter/murder are ok once its with a motorised vehicle.

    If your ever going to kill someone, make sure your driving a car I think is the best advice.


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    #5499
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    CramCycle wrote: »
    If your ever going to kill someone, make sure your driving a car I think is the best advice.

    Only works if your victim is on a bike though


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    #5500
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Ferris wrote: »
    Only works if your victim is on a bike though

    Nope. Horse riders, motorbikers and peds have the same issue.


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    #5501
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Idleater wrote: »
    I regularly see people on bikes with extremely loose straps and the helmet sat way back on the head. One lady even having to push it back as it kept slipping forward and to one side.
    They're in the same category as the flashing red light on the front and white on the back.

    I have seen a handful of people with helmets on back to front... how?


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    #5502
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,523 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    mloc123 wrote: »
    I have seen a handful of people with helmets on back to front... how?

    I'd say 50% who actually don't realise it and 50% too cool for school hipsters who refuse to cow tow to societal pressures because they are unique, original and individual. Just like everyone else.


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    #5503
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Sort-of cycling related-

    Ciara Kelly on lunchtime on NewsTalk talking (moaning) about proposed parking charge hikes on Dublin city centre.

    She had a guy on from Chamber of Commerce and was shocked when he wasnt particularly against it, saying that more and more their members are saying they want the city centre to be a friendly, pleasant place to bring your family to.

    Kelly also kept going on about cyclists "not being able to buy things". The idea that someone could come into town on a bike, drop a couple of hundred euro on a nice bike camera and bring it home in their backpack seemed not to occur to her.

    She then had a slew of frothing motorists giving out about it, including one lady who lived in Sandymount and was moaning about "not being able to drive in" anymore.


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    #5504
    aldark
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭aldark


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Piece on an Irish man and his partner injured while cycling in France http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cyclist-crash-france-mike-curran/

    Also, a week or so ago, the inquest on Paul Hannon concluded that his death due to being run over by a taxi was “down to split second timing”. He had stopped his bike, possibly to fix something, had some class of a wobble and apparently fell onto the road.

    DPP are not pressing charges. Do road users not have a duty of care to other road users? I wonder how fast the taxi was going, could he not have anticipated a potential problem with a cyclist stopping on the road, even if he had, could he have stopped in time?

    Most civilised parts of europe have presumed liability for exactly this kind of accident, maybe its time that the "Stayin’ Alive at 1.5" campaign be extended?


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    #5505
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭Fian


    aldark wrote: »
    Also, a week or so ago, the inquest on Paul Hannon concluded that his death due to being run over by a taxi was “down to split second timing”. He had stopped his bike, possibly to fix something, had some class of a wobble and apparently fell onto the road.

    DPP are not pressing charges. Do road users not have a duty of care to other road users? I wonder how fast the taxi was going, could he not have anticipated a potential problem with a cyclist stopping on the road, even if he had, could he have stopped in time?

    Most civilised parts of europe have presumed liability for exactly this kind of accident, maybe its time that the "Stayin’ Alive at 1.5" campaign be extended?

    I am not commenting on the specific case, because i don't know the specifics. But if someone falls into the road in front of a car there may be nothing the driver can do about avoiding a collission. If I were to fall/slip off a dart platform and fall in front of an oncoming dart it will not be the drivers fault if I am killed. If i fall on to the road in front of an oncoming car and it runs me over that doesn't necessarily mean the driver is criminally culpable.

    Sometimes road traffic deaths are caused by accident, not by criminally culpable driving.


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    #5506
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,763 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Fian wrote: »
    I am not commenting on the specific case, because i don't know the specifics. But if someone falls into the road in front of a car there may be nothing the driver can do about avoiding a collission.
    I don't know the specifics either, but shouldn't a driver be leaving room when passing or approaching a cyclist to allow for the possibility that a cyclist may fall?


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    #5507
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,523 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    I don't know the specifics either, but shouldn't a driver be leaving room when passing or approaching a cyclist to allow for the possibility that a cyclist may fall?

    New legislation from early this year.
    The law will require drivers to allow one metre when passing cyclists on roads with a speed limit under 50 km/h and 1.5 metre on roads with a limit of 50km/h or above.


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    #5508
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,444 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Tell me how wrote: »
    New legislation from early this year.
    I think you might be a bit too hopeful there :(


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    #5509
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Tell me how wrote: »
    New legislation from early this year.

    Hasn't happened and is not going to happen anytime soon.


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    #5510
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,523 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I think you might be a bit too hopeful there :(
    Eamonnator wrote: »
    Hasn't happened and is not going to happen anytime soon.

    Correct. Actually mean to right "Proposed". Brain freeze.


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    #5511
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,614 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Correct. Actually mean to right "Proposed". Brain freeze.

    Thrown out by Gardai as unenforceable earlier in the year I thought, which was stupid because it works elsewhere and would still provide use in accident investigations


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    #5512
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Thrown out by Gardai as unenforceable earlier in the year I thought, which was stupid because it works elsewhere and would still provide use in accident investigations
    Yeah, camera footage unreliable. Unless it's a "real" crime, and then one of the first things they ask the public for is dashcam or cctv footage! :rolleyes:


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    #5513
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    Duckjob wrote: »
    As has been discussed over on the hi-vis thread, the more attention goes on cyclist to "keep themselves safe", the less drivers are held to account for their actions in driving 2 tonne metal boxes, and the more risk there is to mine and other vulnerable road users lives.

    So, yeah, I guess i am pretty precious about my life....

    Truly amazing logic. Personally, I'll stick to keeping myself safe when I cycle, as I do when I drive my car or walk. I do all of those things in the expectation that there is an idiot around the corner, I'm often right.


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    #5514
    Chiparus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,264 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Thrown out by Gardai as unenforceable earlier in the year I thought, which was stupid because it works elsewhere and would still provide use in accident investigations

    Yea I dont think they wanted it, if you can have the offence of "tailgating" AKA "Failure to leave appropriate distance between you
    and the vehicle in front" ...........

    cannot see why they did not have the offence of failure to leave appropriate distance between you and a cyclist.


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    #5515
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Yea I dont think they wanted it, if you can have the offence of "tailgating" AKA "Failure to leave appropriate distance between you
    and the vehicle in front" ...........

    cannot see why they did not have the offence of failure to leave appropriate distance between you and a cyclist.

    Afaik it was the AG's office and not Gardai as such who vetoed The proposed MPD Law on grounds of exact distance legislation being too easily open to challenge. Shane Ross has promised alternative legislation, perhaps something like a specific offence of "dangerous overtaking of a cyclist" without mentioning a specific distance. I think I read on kildarestreet.com that in answer to a Dail PQ he actually said he hoped to have it in place by the end of the year but since it's now Nov 14th I have my doubts about that timeline.


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    #5516
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Corca Baiscinn wrote: »
    Afaik it was the AG's office

    Shane said it was the AG holding it up. Then when asked why went mute.

    There are some among the advocacy groups that believe its Ross himself that never pushed it forward and is just using the AG as an excuse.


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    #5517
    Cetyl Palmitate
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Cetyl Palmitate


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Sort-of cycling related-

    Ciara Kelly on lunchtime on NewsTalk talking (moaning) about proposed parking charge hikes on Dublin city centre.

    She had a guy on from Chamber of Commerce and was shocked when he wasnt particularly against it, saying that more and more their members are saying they want the city centre to be a friendly, pleasant place to bring your family to.

    Kelly also kept going on about cyclists "not being able to buy things". The idea that someone could come into town on a bike, drop a couple of hundred euro on a nice bike camera and bring it home in their backpack seemed not to occur to her.

    She then had a slew of frothing motorists giving out about it, including one lady who lived in Sandymount and was moaning about "not being able to drive in" anymore.

    From the opposite perspective I just returned from Amsterdam. I read an article there with comments from the city planner. She notedthat even with the current infrastructure, the best I have ever seen, there was still 50-60% devoted to cars. Her intention was to work to reduce this further by 10-20%. Compared to the attitude and results across all cities in Ireland it is depressing.


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    #5518
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    Indo sez brutal cyclist weaving in an out of traffic nearly murdering the bus poor driver:pac:. This is the sort of low wattage demonisation material that makes roads less safe. In between all the celeb stories there, some NPC will see even less cause to look away from the phone in low speed traffic.


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    #5519
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    Indo sez brutal cyclist weaving in an out of traffic nearly murdering the bus poor driver:pac:. This is the sort of low wattage demonisation material that makes roads less safe. In between all the celeb stories there, some NPC will see even less cause to look away from the phone in low speed traffic.

    I liked the line that he beeped the horn to tell the cyclist that
    ...if you go under the bus there's no coming back out of it.

    I'm always amazed at how much meaning bus drivers and other motorists can inject into the beeping of a horn.

    People shouldn't be attacked while going about their job though, so if this did happen in the way described, its awful.

    I wonder if we do get a Transport Police they'll be bothered to investigate allegations of bus drivers intimidating cyclists, there'd be a delicious irony in the NBRU campaigning for and getting Transport Police who then haul rogue drivers before the courts.


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    #5520
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,444 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    amcalester wrote: »
    I liked the line that he beeped the horn to tell the cyclist that



    I'm always amazed at how much meaning bus drivers and other motorists can inject into the beeping of a horn.
    You often see people saying stuff like, I flashed my lights to let them know this, I beeped to let know someone know that. Someone crashed into my car once because they interpreted someone else's flash as that the junction was clear, in hindsight it might have been a warning but who knows. People go mad about someone else beeping at them when it could be anyone in the vicinity beeping for any reason. I'm always very cautious if I see another road user trying to communicate, it's too open to interpretation.

    This is one of my favourites, what does a nod or wave of approval look like? How can you be sure it's directed at you, or even intentional?
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108379719&postcount=33


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    #5521
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    This bit confused me...
    The cyclist was weaving in and out of traffic in front of the bus before becoming violent when Mr Fitzsimons signalled at him to move.
    Was the cyclist moving towards the bus or away from it?
    Either way doesn't really make sense though.
    Presumably the cyclist was moving with traffic so why would they come all the way back to the bus and why would the driver think the bike could end up under the bus.


    Anyhow the indo is down there with the likes of the sun


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