Madeleine McCann

Mantis Toboggan · 14-11-2018 12:17AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fairly sure she was at the kids club until 6pm. Nobody outside the McCanns saw her after.
Matthew Oldfield went to check on the kids at 9:30 I believe but didn't look very hard and couldn't recall if Madeline was there or not...

Why he bothered going at all is odd. Surely you'd at least look to see if the kids were there!

Nah I understand that one, he looked into a dark room and everything looked OK. He wasn't going to turn on the lights and wake the kids up, I would have done the same.

fin12 · 14-11-2018 12:25AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Deleted User wrote: »

Fairly sure she was at the kids club until 6pm. Nobody outside the McCanns saw her after.
Matthew Oldfield went to check on the kids at 9:30 I believe but didn't look very hard and couldn't recall if Madeline was there or not...

Why he bothered going at all is odd. Surely you'd at least look to see if the kids were there!

What time did the McCanns go to dinner?

fin12 · 14-11-2018 12:29AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Nah I understand that one, he looked into a dark room and everything looked OK. He wasn't going to turn on the lights and wake the kids up, I would have done the same.

I don’t know this might be me being overly cautious but when I’ve minded young kids at night and especially babies and would go right in the room, the light would be on in the hall so no need to turn bedroom light on, to check on them and even listen to the baby’s breathing.

Deusexmachina · 14-11-2018 01:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah lots. Not recently though. Have you?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/was-madeline-mccann-one-of-many

Deusexmachina · 14-11-2018 01:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah lots. Not recently though. Have you?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmllLw&guce_referrer_cs=sUC56wJ3FZdTltra8vUX-Q

the_pen_turner · 14-11-2018 01:23AM

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmllLw&guce_referrer_cs=sUC56wJ3FZdTltra8vUX-Q

thats interesting . any update on the findings. any patern found .

what description are they using. the man with a child seen carrying a child .

MonkieSocks · 14-11-2018 03:03AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

To most people Portugal's state-run orphanages seemed like a safe haven for thousands of children who had been robbed of their parents.

They were called the Casa Pia, or Houses of the Pious.

But for an elite paedophile ring, which included a former ambassador and a prominent television celebrity, Casa Pia orphanages were something entirely different.

They were supermarkets stocked with children to abuse.

Yesterday, at the conclusion of the longest trial in Portugal's history, seven defendants were convicted of using the orphanages to rape and abuse scores of teenage boys in a case that has sent shockwaves through the country's political elite and raised serious concerns over the efficiency of Portugal's judiciary.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/guilty-after-six-year-trial-portugals-high-society-paedophile-ring-2070112.html

Wasn't there many people reported going around the Ocean Club making a collection for an orphanage

gozunda · 14-11-2018 07:13AM

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/04/30-children-have-gone-missing-in-portugal-since-madeleine-mccann-disappeared_n_7378200.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmllLw&guce_referrer_cs=sUC56wJ3FZdTltra8vUX-Q

It was also revealed yesterday that details of over 100 calls to Crimestoppers about Madeleine in the days after she vanished were never handed to police.

They mostly came from psychics....

:rolleyes:

cnocbui · 14-11-2018 11:47AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

What time did the McCanns go to dinner?

Here, knock yourself out: http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk

cnocbui · 14-11-2018 11:52AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

I don’t know this might be me being overly cautious but when I’ve minded young kids at night and especially babies and would go right in the room, the light would be on in the hall so no need to turn bedroom light on, to check on them and even listen to the baby’s breathing.

I used to babysit for someone who owned a nightclub. I'd to go to sleep on the couch then wake when I heard keys in the door around 04:30

retro:electro · 14-11-2018 11:55AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Listening at the door is fine. Sometimes the creak can wake them. I’ve often just shoved my head in and if I see some kind of human shaped replica on the duvet it’s good enough. You’re checking to see are they crying/awake.. abduction would rarely cross your mind.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 12:08PM

I've read this whole thread but I may have missed this so apologies if it was posted already. It's an unnerving theory but it seems to fit the facts - as I know them anyway. The points are well made but be warned - it's upsetting enough that you might end up wishing you hadn't read it because yes, there are people out there capable of doing the things it suggests.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1052261768909733888.html

14-11-2018 01:09PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

I've read this whole thread but I may have missed this so apologies if it was posted already. It's an unnerving theory but it seems to fit the facts - as I know them anyway. The points are well made but be warned - it's upsetting enough that you might end up wishing you hadn't read it because yes, there are people out there capable of doing the things it suggests.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1052261768909733888.html

I don't see any evidence of anything in that thread.
It's someone posting their opinion. Nothing to back it up.

Boom_Bap · 14-11-2018 01:12PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

To be fair, everything is an opinion or a scenario that has been played out with the evidence how they see it, or how they want to see it.
Good detective work is being able to make the real story out of the evidence.

iamwhoiam · 14-11-2018 01:12PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't see any evidence of anything in that thread.
It's someone posting their opinion. Nothing to back it up.

Also loads of factual mistakes in that thread . Its full of rubbish

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 01:24PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't see any evidence of anything in that thread.
It's someone posting their opinion. Nothing to back it up.

Yes. That's what I meant by the words 'theory' and 'it suggests'.

Babooshka · 14-11-2018 01:42PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

Yes. That's what I meant by the words 'theory' and 'it suggests'.

Yeah but it's kind of something from the imagination of a nut job with nothing else to do. We could all sit there and make up stuff about who took her but what the hell is the point. Chances are the poor little child was taken by some such nut case - but it's these crazies coming out on the internet, people who vilify the McCanns while getting off on unleashing the darkest recesses of their minds (and only their imaginations) that bothers me.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 02:02PM

Babooshka wrote: »

Yeah but it's kind of something from the imagination of a nut job with nothing else to do. We could all sit there and make up stuff about who took her but what the hell is the point. Chances are the poor little child was taken by some such nut case - but it's these crazies coming out on the internet, people who vilify the McCanns while getting off on unleashing the darkest recesses of their minds (and only their imaginations) that bothers me.

That's fair enough. I thought it seemed at least feasible enough to be worth posting. Unless we're talking hollow earth or lizard people, I think very few theories are so far fetched as to not be worth at least looking at.

Deusexmachina · 14-11-2018 02:18PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

That's fair enough. I thought it seemed at least feasible enough to be worth posting. Unless we're talking hollow earth or lizard people, I think very few theories are so far fetched as to not be worth at least looking at.

While I understand your reasoning, my problem is that some of the theorizing involves accusing the child’s parents of murder or manslaughter of their own child.
Idle specuation is fine but some of vitriol the Mc Canns have been subjected to is shocking.
There really is no reason to hurt these people even more than they have suffered already but some keyboard warriors are relentless.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 02:31PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

While I understand your reasoning, my problem is that some of the theorizing involves accusing the child’s parents of murder or manslaughter of their own child.
Idle specuation is fine but some of vitriol the Mc Canns have been subjected to is shocking.
There really is no reason to hurt these people even more than they have suffered already but some keyboard warriors are relentless.

I agree that her parents have been subjected to shocking amounts of vitriol and abuse. But by the same token, I think it's naive to completely disregard the possibility of their involvement, whether deliberately or accidentally, based simply on the fact that they are her parents. It would be great if we lived in a world where parents never damaged or harmed their own children - but the sad fact of the matter is that we don't. I tend to think of the parents as innocent until proven guilty. But there are just too many unanswered questions to conclusively declare them innocent of any involvement.

Deusexmachina · 14-11-2018 02:36PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

I agree that her parents have been subjected to shocking amounts of vitriol and abuse. But by the same token, I think it's naive to completely disregard the possibility of their involvement, whether deliberately or accidentally, based simply on the fact that they are her parents. It would be great if we lived in a world where parents never damaged or harmed their own children - but the sad fact of the matter is that we don't. I tend to think of the parents as innocent until proven guilty. But there are just too many unanswered questions to conclusively declare them innocent of any involvement.

But it’s not simply because they are her parents. Not at all.

Nobody has ever been able to develop a reasonable scenario backed up with proper evidence which expliains how and why her parents killed her and/or disposed of her body.

Any scenario I have ever read from conspiracy theorists have more holes in them than swizz cheese.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 02:45PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

But it’s not simply because they are her parents. Not at all.

Nobody has ever been able to develop a reasonable scenario backed up with proper evidence which expliains how and why her parents killed her and/or disposed of her body.

Any scenario I have ever read from conspiracy theorists have more holes in them than swizz cheese.

Well then I suggest you avoid conspiracy theorists. There is no shortage of documented and confirmed facts of the case from proper sources that are enough to prevent them from being ruled innocent - the unanswered questions, the cadaver dogs, the use of the picture of her eyes against all legal advice, to name but a few.

If a high court judge feels it's important enough to make the distinction between them being ruled out as suspects and being declared innocent, then that to me is enough to bear in mind that they may have had some involvement. Even if it was as simple as accidentally overdosing her with sedatives and then panicking. Maintaining the possibility of their involvement does not necessarily mean that they are the incarnation of evil that so many people seem to think they are. They can easily have one without the other.

Deusexmachina · 14-11-2018 02:47PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

Well then I suggest you avoid conspiracy theorists. There is no shortage of documented and confirmed facts of the case from proper sources that are enough to prevent them from being ruled innocent - the unanswered questions, the cadaver dogs, the use of the picture of her eyes against all legal advice, to name but a few.

If a high court judge feels it's important enough to make the distinction between them being ruled out as suspects and being declared innocent, then that to me is enough to bear in mind that they may have had some involvement. Even if it was as simple as accidentally overdosing her with sedatives and then panicking. Maintaining the possibility of their involvement does not necessarily mean that they are the incarnation of evil that so many people seem to think they are. They can easily have one without the other.

There is NO credible scenario where they killed their child and buried her. Feel free to offer one.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 02:50PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

There is NO credible scenario where they killed their child and buried her. Feel free to offer one.

I didn't say there was. I said repeatedly 'involvement'. A credible scenario is that the child died and they felt somehow responsible and panicked, behaved irrationally (which would certainly be understandable), disposed of the body and are now so invested that they don't know how to backtrack.

Deusexmachina · 14-11-2018 02:52PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

I didn't say there was. I said repeatedly 'involvement'. A credible scenario is that the child died and they felt somehow responsible and panicked, behaved irrationally (which would certainly be understandable), disposed of the body and are now so invested that they don't know how to backtrack.

Sorry, but that’s not credible in any way.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 02:53PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Sorry, but that’s not credible in any way.

Well then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

iamwhoiam · 14-11-2018 02:57PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Sorry, but that’s not credible in any way.

Its just as credible as any other theory , none of us know what happened .I think discussing all theories is fair on this thread .Yours ,mine and all others opinions are equally as valid .Its not my opinion either but am willing to listen to others and allow them to have opinions

ozzy jr · 14-11-2018 02:57PM

Something Else

MmmChocolate wrote: »

I didn't say there was. I said repeatedly 'involvement'. A credible scenario is that the child died and they felt somehow responsible and panicked, behaved irrationally (which would certainly be understandable), disposed of the body and are now so invested that they don't know how to backtrack.

That certainly is a plausible scenario. I'm not suggesting for a minute that's what happened (before the usual suspects come along), but to completely dismiss it is wrong.

MmmChocolate · 14-11-2018 02:58PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Its just as credible as any other theory , none of us know what happened .I think discussing all theories is fair on this thread .Yours ,mine and all others opinions are equally as valid .

I suspect Deusexmachina feels that any theory that doesn't exonerate the parents 100% is not a credible theory.

14-11-2018 03:01PM

MmmChocolate wrote: »

I tend to think of the parents as innocent until proven guilty. But there are just too many unanswered questions to conclusively declare them innocent of any involvement.

This doesn't make sense . You think the parents as innocent until proven guilty, however you don't believe they can be declared innocent?

Madeleine McCann

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