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Dublin - BusConnects

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Comments



  • tom1ie wrote: »
    If there is to be 4 min frequency on this route, bunching will be inevitable without offset bus set down areas at bus stops. The lack of this is disappointing.

    It certainly isn't ideal. It looks like where there is space they are offsetting stops (e.g. on the Swords roads). But not possible everywhere.

    A 4 minute frequency would be one of the less frequent core routes.

    Having said that, hopefully we will also have the 90 minute ticket, zero driver interaction ticketing and better use of dual doors, all which should help with faster dwell times.




  • This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.




  • bk wrote: »
    Having said that, hopefully we will also have the 90 minute ticket, zero driver interaction ticketing and better use of dual doors, all which should help with faster dwell times.

    90 minute ticket will happen. If you want the short hop fare I imagine that'll still require interaction and then of course you'll still get yanky-doodles asking if this is the bus to guiness and handing over dollar notes as a fare. Or you get the local dope opening their wallet and wanting to go 'to the top of the road'. :rolleyes:




  • Lucan corridor does not have sufficient improvements to deliver the claimed inbound reductions tbh. They are reducing the inbound general traffic lanes over the M50 to provide slightly more bus lane there; but nothing to reduce traffic entering the bus lane to go to M50N (if you don't go in early, you don't get in basically) or improve buses pulling away from the Liffey Valley stop eastbound.

    They say "cyclists will be diverted" on to the cycling bridge built during the junction upgrade works, but with a bus lane present I could see even more cyclists staying on the R148 than currently!

    The stop on the Chapelizod Bypass may assist in acceptance of the proposed route changes, albeit not much use for anyone with impaired mobility. Will give slightly better access to BCFE than currently.




  • matrim wrote: »
    This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.

    Not an issue if you are an autonomous person who keeps track of your surroundings but alas darwinism hasn't been able to work it's magic in the modern world for some decades.

    No detail on Liffey Valley hub is a disappointment.


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  • CatInABox wrote: »
    Bunching will happen regardless, it's impossible to remove completely from a bus network no matter what you do.

    Yes, but you try your best to remove the potential for this hazard to occur in the outset.




  • matrim wrote: »
    This has probably been brought up before but is the "pedestrian - cycle - bus - car - car - bus - cycle - pedestrian" configuration not going to cause loads of issues where you have pedestrians crossing cycle lanes to get to / from bus stops and even crowing them while waiting / queuing for the bus.

    Not ideal. But better then getting stuck behind a bus stopped at a bus stop with the on road bike paths.

    From the plans, it looks like at least in some of them there should be quiet a bit of space between the bike path and the bus stop, so it should be ok. Though obviously busy city center stops will be interesting.

    The bike lane going behind 5 bus stops on Parnell Square East is very interesting!




  • L1011 wrote: »
    In that case he should be delighted this is happening first, not whining to get media attention (cause he's doomed at the next election, for other reasons)

    This isn’t happening first - this won’t actually physically happen until 2021 or later.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    This isn’t happening first - this won’t actually physically happen until 2021 or later.

    He is whining about the announcement order. That's all.




  • Quick look through the Swords road corridor this afternoon, and it does seem pretty positive. One way through Santry may be contentious. I like the way they have relocated bus stops to make transferring from the 17a to buses on the Swords road easier, would have saved me a run this morning.

    I guess my only question is how do I get a job working on the detail design?


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  • bk wrote: »
    The controversial bit here might be moving the bike lane off onto Brian Road, though if your heading to the City, that would actually be quiet nice for cyclists IMO, but might not be popular with the residents.

    It doesn't look like houses here will actually lose much garden, a small meter or so from what I can see from the map, I don't think enough for anyone to lose parking. Again this looks to be an example where they aren't taking as much garden as they could, moving the bike lane away rather then taking more garden.

    Back in the day I used to often cycle up the Brian Road route anyway when coming out of town. The one concern I would have is cyclists going into town - it will require adding signals at that junction surely? Otherwise it will be useless.
    bk wrote: »
    Not ideal. But better then getting stuck behind a bus stopped at a bus stop with the on road bike paths.

    From the plans, it looks like at least in some of them there should be quiet a bit of space between the bike path and the bus stop, so it should be ok. Though obviously busy city center stops will be interesting.

    The bike lane going behind 5 bus stops on Parnell Square East is very interesting!

    You don't necessarily get stuck behind a bus though, as you can still pull out into the traffic lanes to overtake. I am not a fan of cycle lanes going behind bus stops but how much I dislike it depends on implementation - the current example of the off-road cycle lane going behind the bus-stop in Fairview for example is absolutely horrific.




  • Oh god, these plans in Blanch has the bus corridor running along the north end of the center and to the gigantic cluster**** that is the Snugborough Road junction. What the hell are they thinking...




  • Podge_irl wrote: »
    the current example of the off-road cycle lane going behind the bus-stop in Fairview for example is absolutely horrific.

    In fairness, the current cycle lane there is absolutely horrific.

    It should never have been created really, it's a half-assed cycle lane, where you're dodging ancient, gnarled trees and clueless pedestrians all the way along it. The sooner that length of the cycle lane is updated the better, right now neither cyclists or pedestrians are safe along that length.




  • CatInABox wrote: »
    In fairness, the current cycle lane there is absolutely horrific.

    It should never have been created really, it's a half-assed cycle lane, where you're dodging ancient, gnarled trees and clueless pedestrians all the way along it. The sooner that length of the cycle lane is updated the better, right now neither cyclists or pedestrians are safe along that length.

    Oh yeah, it is a particularly egregious example (I just use the road). But it just shows how poorly it can go and I don't entirely trust this until I see it implemented better. In general I wouldn't be fond of cycling behind and around a bunch of sleepy commuters at 7am. I'd much rather just overtake a stationary bus the same way taxis do.




  • cgcsb wrote: »
    Nobody seems to have lost much garden in this tranche. The South West corridors will be the real controversial ones. I'd just like to see these things happen asap rather than in 2027.

    The real issue in the south central area (again none of the 14, 16 or 140 are going southwest and nor would the A3/A4 so I don’t know why you keep referring to it as southwest), and indeed elsewhere, isn’t really the gardens - it’s what can be delivered in terms of journey time improvements. The CPOs will cause news headlines but frankly they’re not going to deliver that much in that particular area in my view.

    The real problem is the lack of space where buildings are right up against the footpaths (Rathmines, Rathgar and Terenure and Harold’s X) where unless you demolish stuff then there’s little option to put bus lanes in. The only option left is to potentially close routes to general traffic.

    That’s going to cause major problems - where is it all going to go?

    I just don’t see how they can deliver the journey time improvements quoted.

    Today has been somewhat underwhelming in terms of priority measures - don’t get me wrong I welcome any improvement for bus passengers, but I don’t quite see how they will deliver the vast improvements in journey time that they’re quoting.




  • CatInABox wrote: »
    In fairness, the current cycle lane there is absolutely horrific.

    Could be said pretty much of every cycle in the city.




  • bk wrote: »
    The controversial bit here might be moving the bike lane off onto Brian Road, though if your heading to the City, that would actually be quiet nice for cyclists IMO, but might not be popular with the residents.

    It doesn't look like houses here will actually lose much garden, a small meter or so from what I can see from the map, I don't think enough for anyone to lose parking. Again this looks to be an example where they aren't taking as much garden as they could, moving the bike lane away rather then taking more garden.

    How would they enforce this - legally there’s nothing to stop cyclists from staying on the Malahide Road instead?




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    The real problem is the lack of space where buildings are right up against the footpaths (Rathmines, Rathgar and Terenure and Harold’s X) where unless you demolish stuff then there’s little option to put bus lanes in. The only option left is to potentially close routes to general traffic.

    That’s going to cause major problems - where is it all going to go?

    I just don’t see how they can deliver the journey time improvements quoted.

    I mean...that's probably what they are going to do. Restrict or remove private traffic. As to where it will go - some will evaporate, for others traffic will get much worse and there will be 17 reports in the papers about hell for commuters when they really mean private car users while the bus passengers sail past...

    The improved times will be for the bus passengers so that is definitely achievable. The question would then become whether the diversions and other measures put in place for cars are actually workable and we will have to wait and see on that front. One possibility is making some of the bus lanes peak time only - it goes against the general ethos but on roads with no other access may be an option. The cycle route around Fairview is, to be fair, a good example of them realising the limitations of reality and coming up with a "next best" approach.




  • I do wonder what ABP will make of all this, what with them not believing in the concept of traffic evaporation, as can be seen in their report on the refusal of college green plaza. Some sections of the corridors will rely on these concepts, and if ABP hasn't updated their thinking on this by the time that the NTA submits them, then it's a pretty bleak outlook, to be honest.




  • CatInABox wrote: »
    I do wonder what ABP will make of all this, what with them not believing in the concept of traffic evaporation, as can be seen in their report on the refusal of college green plaza. Some sections of the corridors will rely on these concepts, and if ABP hasn't updated their thinking on this by the time that the NTA submits them, then it's a pretty bleak outlook, to be honest.

    They are taking a reasonably sensible approach in this in terms of going for the "easiest" choices first. If they get approval then it makes less sense to stop the project half-way.


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  • Podge_irl wrote: »
    I mean...that's probably what they are going to do. Restrict or remove private traffic. As to where it will go - some will evaporate, for others traffic will get much worse and there will be 17 reports in the papers about hell for commuters when they really mean private car users while the bus passengers sail past...

    The improved times will be for the bus passengers so that is definitely achievable. The question would then become whether the diversions and other measures put in place for cars are actually workable and we will have to wait and see on that front. One possibility is making some of the bus lanes peak time only - it goes against the general ethos but on roads with no other access may be an option. The cycle route around Fairview is, to be fair, a good example of them realising the limitations of reality and coming up with a "next best" approach.

    There are limits to what can you do outside of the canals in terms of redirecting traffic and especially in the south central area - there isn’t really anywhere for it to go to. Not all of it is going to the city centre remember.

    As for the improvements in bus journey times there will be some which I unreservedly welcome, but I just don’t see today’s efforts delivering the level of improvement they are claiming:

    Malahide Rd - up to 35 mins
    Swords Rd - up to 30 mins
    Navan Rd - up to 40 mins
    Lucan Rd - up to 20 mins

    I certainly don’t believe that they can cut up to 55 mins off the journey from Rathfarnham to the city!

    I don’t disagree about the Fairview cycle route but how many cyclists will just keep going the same way as at present? I’m not sure what behavioural evidence would show where cyclists are supposed to stop and cross over the main road to access an alternative cycles route?

    It’s not easy - I don’t envy the engineers but I do question ultimately whether the actual targets as outlined in the high level presentations are achievable.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    There are limits to what can you do outside of the canals in terms of redirecting traffic and especially in the south central area - there isn’t really anywhere for it to go to. Not all of it is going to the city centre remember.

    As for the improvements in bus journey times there will be some which I unreservedly welcome, but I just don’t see today’s efforts delivering the level of improvement they are claiming:

    Malahide Rd - up to 35 mins
    Swords Rd - up to 30 mins
    Navan Rd - up to 40 mins
    Lucan Rd - up to 20 mins

    I certainly don’t believe that they can cut up to 55 mins off the journey from Rathfarnham to the city!

    I don’t disagree about the Fairview cycle route but how many cyclists will just keep going the same way as at present? I’m not sure what behavioural evidence would show where cyclists are supposed to stop and cross over the main road to access an alternative cycles route?

    It’s not easy - I don’t envy the engineers but I do question ultimately whether the actual targets as outlined in the high level presentations are achievable.

    The Clongriffin and Swords (to a lower degree) are the only ones I can comment on with any real experience. I do have experience of the Malahide road around the Collins Avenue junction - that area was changed maybe 15? years ago (I'm unsure of the exact timeline to be honest). Previously the two lanes of traffic funnelled into one lane by Donnycarney church - this was expanded to make it a bus lane and traffic lane and keep the bus lane the whole way through the junction by taking some pavement away I think. It alone made a 10-15min difference at certain times and I was only coming from Elm Mount - choke points have a huge, outsized impact. The Fariview to Griffith Avenue section with no bus lane can easily add 10 minutes to a journey time at peak. Add the various choke points up and I don't have a huge difficulty believing that we could save that much time.

    On the cycle route I agree - without a signal crossing it will not be used at all. With it, it might be used but we will see - it would require have the same priority as the cars coming down the malahide road and I find that unlikely. There doesn't need to be a cycle lane the whole way though - there will be an option for people who want to stay in segregated lanes and other cyclists can just continue in traffic lanes for 500m or so. Not ideal, but at least it shows an element of practicality - otherwise they would need to take a lot of land off houses there. There is no obvious, easy answer to this.




  • ^^^

    The removal of the choke point in front of the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra, just 100 meters of bus lanes had a massive impact on reducing my journey into town. Cut it almost in half!

    It really showed me that removing choke points like these can really have massive positive effect. I can't wait to see more improvements like this on my route and see the same benefits being rolled out across the city.




  • A quick look at the maps and the cycling element of this project seems poor at best. Massive gaps along the routes, lose of priority all over the place.




  • A quick look at the maps and the cycling element of this project seems poor at best. Massive gaps along the routes, lose of priority all over the place.

    I think it’s firmly Danish style cycle lanes. I watched a video on cycling in Denmark and they don’t have anywhere near the same infrastructure as the Netherlands, they just have large lanes. There’s some major issues with some junctions but I’m sure I’ve seen something mentioning cycling priority. Staggered green phases would make a MAJOR difference imo




  • Qrt wrote: »
    I think it’s firmly Danish style cycle lanes. I watched a video on cycling in Denmark and they don’t have anywhere near the same infrastructure as the Netherlands, they just have large lanes. There’s some major issues with some junctions but I’m sure I’ve seen something mentioning cycling priority. Staggered green phases would make a MAJOR difference imo

    It's firmly not. Just look at the maps half of the Clongriffin to City Centre maps half no cycle lanes, partial cycle lanes or shared cycle lanes with pedestrians.




  • A quick look at the maps and the cycling element of this project seems poor at best. Massive gaps along the routes, lose of priority all over the place.

    Poor compared to what?




  • It's firmly not. Just look at the maps half of the Clongriffin to City Centre maps half no cycle lanes, partial cycle lanes or shared cycle lanes with pedestrians.

    Oh those inconsistencies need to be ironed out but it’s a hell of a lot better than what’s there now.

    EDIT: just had another look, apart from the clongriffin main street thing that's not great at all, they seem fine (except for the marino thing)? I don't see any shared cycling/pedestrian spaces at all...




  • RayCun wrote: »
    Poor compared to what?

    Compared to continuous dedicated cycle lanes


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  • Qrt wrote: »
    Oh those inconsistencies need to be ironed out but it’s a hell of a lot better than what’s there now.

    EDIT: just had another look, apart from the clongriffin main street thing that's not great at all, they seem fine (except for the marino thing)? I don't see any shared cycling/pedestrian spaces at all...

    Go to the bottom of the PDF maps 1—5 have no orange line. Maps 6, 7, 12, 20, 21 partial


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