Off Topic Thread 4.0

thomond2006 · 13-11-2018 11:22AM

I just looked at Paradise, CA on Google Maps and Wiki. Last census in 2010 had the population at 26k. All burned out of their homes. Insane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_California

troyzer · 13-11-2018 11:25AM

Running is not for everyone. My body is much better built for swimming, I can't run 1km before my shin splints act up or my knee goes.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2018 11:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's a serious problem and there are no realistic solutions in the current political climate. I've friends who live around 50 miles away from the fires and the pictures they've posted would make you think the smoke was coming from up the road.

There are no realistic solutions full stop. The areas involved are massive and would require a huge amount of work just to create fire breaks. And even fire breaks aren't necessarily going to be effective when the winds get up. If you've ever seen a dry grass fire on a breezy day, you'd be gobsmacked at how quickly it travels. And the Santa Anas blow at upwards of 40mph. I've no idea what the answer is tbh.

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2018 11:40AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

There are no realistic solutions full stop. The areas involved are massive and would require a huge amount of work just to create fire breaks. And even fire breaks aren't necessarily going to be effective when the winds get up. If you've ever seen a dry grass fire on a breezy day, you'd be gobsmacked at how quickly it travels. And the Santa Anas blow at upwards of 40mph. I've no idea what the answer is tbh.

The answer is to create fire breaks and to increase accessibility to the areas (many of which are specifically designed to be inaccessible in order to increase land value). Still resisted amazingly.

Credit to the firefighters, incredible job to do. Anything they request should be afforded them in stopping these disasters. I was living directly across a motorway from a wildfire a while ago and it was just incredible to watch. Truly humbling.

13-11-2018 11:40AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

There are no realistic solutions full stop. The areas involved are massive and would require a huge amount of work just to create fire breaks. And even fire breaks aren't necessarily going to be effective when the winds get up. If you've ever seen a dry grass fire on a breezy day, you'd be gobsmacked at how quickly it travels. And the Santa Anas blow at upwards of 40mph. I've no idea what the answer is tbh.

BUILD THE WALL

These fires are not bringing their best kindling

prawnsambo · 13-11-2018 11:55AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The answer is to create fire breaks and to increase accessibility to the areas (many of which are specifically designed to be inaccessible in order to increase land value). Still resisted amazingly.

Credit to the firefighters, incredible job to do. Anything they request should be afforded them in stopping these disasters. I was living directly across a motorway from a wildfire a while ago and it was just incredible to watch. Truly humbling.

Creating firebreaks would be a massive job. The Woolsey fire covers something like 200 square miles. I suppose at a minimum, creating firebreaks around towns and villages would be a start. But they'd have to be massive and constantly worked because stuff grows when the conditions are right.

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2018 12:50PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Creating firebreaks would be a massive job. The Woolsey fire covers something like 200 square miles. I suppose at a minimum, creating firebreaks around towns and villages would be a start. But they'd have to be massive and constantly worked because stuff grows when the conditions are right.

There is no instant fix for sure, but the problem was decades in the making

errlloyd · 13-11-2018 03:45PM

One of the problems apparently is that park rangers are so good at preventing small fires, the brush never gets cleared and makes it pretty ripe for the really big fires.

Squidgy Black · 13-11-2018 03:48PM

They used to do an awful lot more controlled fires to try and prevent major ones like they've been having, but funding has been cut.

Also the climate change, longer summers and less rain meaning over the last couple years everything's dried up a lot.

dregin · 13-11-2018 03:52PM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

They used to do an awful lot more controlled fires to try and prevent major ones like they've been having, but funding has been cut.

Also the climate change, longer summers and less rain meaning over the last couple years everything's dried up a lot.

California's been in drought for years, massively unhelped by the fact that companies are following the dropping water table down with pipe extensions. Are nestle the main culprit there? Can't remember.

errlloyd · 13-11-2018 03:56PM

dregin wrote: »

California's been in drought for years, massively unhelped by the fact that companies are following the dropping water table down with pipe extensions. Are nestle the main culprit there? Can't remember.

It takes 7100 litres to produce 1 litre of Almond Milk.

Zzippy · 13-11-2018 03:57PM

errlloyd wrote: »

It takes 7100 litres to produce 1 litre of Almond Milk.

Bloody hipsters! :mad:

dregin · 13-11-2018 04:05PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-water-selling-diverting-bottled-arrowhead-san-bernardino-forest-california-a8130686.html

Neil3030 · 13-11-2018 04:36PM

The Socal fire has already jumped over the 101, a six lane freeway. Not sure how you build a break or wall to contain that sort of determined spread.

Where I live (central coast / North Socal), it's rained once since March, and the land has been drying out all Summer. They now reckon that with the air and ground so dry, especially in winter when humidity drops, a scuff of shoe leather can set off a wildfire. Or another common cause is a tow trailer chain left too loose, scratching off the tarmac, and creating a spark.

Californians also have to stop building houses in risk zones, and opposing controlled burns. Time to prioritise more important things than the view from your southern terrace.

Now let's just pray the rain stays away, or else the mudslides will follow....

Buer · 13-11-2018 04:52PM

dregin wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-water-selling-diverting-bottled-arrowhead-san-bernardino-forest-california-a8130686.html

Forget about it, Jake.

stephen_n · 13-11-2018 04:53PM

errlloyd wrote: »

It takes 7100 litres to produce 1 litre of Almond Milk.

It’s not like the water evaporates in that process though. I can’t really wrap my head around the problem there, it’s pretty much recycling in practice. It’s not like the water being used for agriculture needs to be processed.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2018 04:53PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

The Socal fire has already jumped over the 101, a six lane freeway. Not sure how you build a break or wall to contain that sort of determined spread.

Where I live (central coast / North Socal), it's rained once since March, and the land has been drying out all Summer. They now reckon that with the air and ground so dry, especially in winter when humidity drops, a scuff of shoe leather can set off a wildfire. Or another common cause is a tow trailer chain left too loose, scratching off the tarmac, and creating a spark.

Californians also have to stop building houses in risk zones, and opposing controlled burns. Time to prioritise more important things than the view from your southern terrace.

Now let's just pray the rain stays away, or else the mudslides will follow....

Yeah. You need hundreds of yards to act as a firebreak. Sparks carried on the wind can travel a good distance before going out and that's how these fires can jump freeways.

Buer · 13-11-2018 04:57PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

The Socal fire has already jumped over the 101, a six lane freeway. Not sure how you build a break or wall to contain that sort of determined spread.

Fire breaks do offer some practical relief to the spread of fires but they won't prevent them moving completely. Wind borne sparks and debris can easily spread the fire from one spot to another a significant distance away with little issue when the landscape is basically kindling.

Some trees are also liable to explode due to their natural oils and scatter burning limbs and embers a good distance away also although I believe that's more of an issue in Australia than California.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2018 05:10PM

Buer wrote: »

Fire breaks do offer some practical relief to the spread of fires but they won't prevent them moving completely. Wind borne sparks and debris can easily spread the fire from one spot to another a significant distance away with little issue when the landscape is basically kindling.

Some trees are also liable to explode due to their natural oils and scatter burning limbs and embers a good distance away also although I believe that's more of an issue in Australia than California.

It was a massive issue in Portugal recently too. It was eucalyptus plantations that caught fire and literally exploded from the heat. They are very oil heavy trees and there were calls to stop plantig them or at least not have them near roadways. I remember driving in the Lisbon area a couple of years ago and there are miles of them right up to the road edge.

thomond2006 · 13-11-2018 11:32PM

What was done to Maurice McCabe and his family was disgusting. Truly disgusting.

C*llinan comes across as a lowlife odious individual.
As a taxpayer I'm funding the sizeable pensions of some utter monsters.

Clegg · 13-11-2018 11:35PM

The fact there are still apologists for the Gardai in the AH forum disgusts me.

Zzippy · 14-11-2018 10:44AM

Great documentary, well made and really showed what the McCabes went through. Fair play to them for sticking to their guns to the end, it would have broken up many marriages and finished many people off. I hope there are consequences for Callinan - what an utterly horrible individual.

Buer · 14-11-2018 10:55AM

Clegg wrote: »

The fact there are still apologists for the Gardai in the AH forum disgusts me.

You'll be disappointed to know that this is not an unusual mindset. I haven't had a chance to watch the documentary yet but what I've heard thus far is completely unsurprising in relation to how the McCabe family were treated by both AGS and their community.

I know a few members of AGS who would be career members and reached moderate levels of seniority in their districts. I haven't spoken to them since the Charlton Report (and certainly not since the documentary aired) but the mentality of "Omerta" is the standard. McCabe was in the wrong to lift the lid, for them. They believe that this is how policing is carried out and you need to be flexible and turn some blind eyes here and there. The problem is, the blind eyes are turned purely when it suited them based on their personal preferences.

However, I always found it baffling that there was this mock indignation and shock at the corruption "revelations". The dogs on the street openly knew the penalty point situation was happening. I'm not even being facetious. Who honestly didn't know that members of AGS were wiping penalty points?

In relation to McCabe's original complaints about corruption in AGS, again were any of those genuinely surprising? McCabe has done the country a massive service by forcing us to acknowledge and discuss these items but, as a society, we were all complicit in the culture that allowed these activities to persist.

Zzippy · 14-11-2018 11:06AM

Buer wrote: »

You'll be disappointed to know that this is not an unusual mindset. I haven't had a chance to watch the documentary yet but what I've heard thus far is completely unsurprising in relation to how the McCabe family were treated by both AGS and their community.

I know a few members of AGS who would be career members and reached moderate levels of seniority in their districts. I haven't spoken to them since the Charlton Report (and certainly not since the documentary aired) but the mentality of "Omerta" is the standard. McCabe was in the wrong to lift the lid, for them. They believe that this is how policing is carried out and you need to be flexible and turn some blind eyes here and there. The problem is, the blind eyes are turned purely when it suited them based on their personal preferences.

However, I always found it baffling that there was this mock indignation and shock at the corruption "revelations". The dogs on the street openly knew the penalty point situation was happening. I'm not even being facetious. Who honestly didn't know that members of AGS were wiping penalty points?

In relation to McCabe's original complaints about corruption in AGS, again were any of those genuinely surprising? McCabe has done the country a massive service by forcing us to acknowledge and discuss these items but, as a society, we were all complicit in the culture that allowed these activities to persist.

In fairness, as non-members, what were any of us supposed to do about it?

I also have a few friends in the guards, none of them above sergeant. A couple have said to me how annoyed and frustrated they felt about how senior management treated McCabe and the whole closing ranks thing. At the same time, having seen what he went through, the overwhelming feeling was keep your mouth shut and the head down, who'd want to go through that. It's not omerta, it's fear.

Buer · 14-11-2018 11:17AM

Zzippy wrote: »

In fairness, as non-members, what were any of us supposed to do about it?

I also have a few friends in the guards, none of them above sergeant. A couple have said to me how annoyed and frustrated they felt about how senior management treated McCabe and the whole closing ranks thing. At the same time, having seen what he went through, the overwhelming feeling was keep your mouth shut and the head down, who'd want to go through that. It's not omerta, it's fear.

As non-members of the clergy or a religious order, what were we supposed to do about their scandals?

Report it. Report it again. Raise the issue with your elected representative. I'm not for a second saying I'm not just as bad as anyone else in that regard, for the record. It was simply accepted by us.

I suppose the difference between omerta and fear is the insignia you have on your uniform.

Zzippy · 14-11-2018 11:38AM

Buer wrote: »

As non-members of the clergy or a religious order, what were we supposed to do about their scandals?

Report it. Report it again. Raise the issue with your elected representative. I'm not for a second saying I'm not just as bad as anyone else in that regard, for the record. It was simply accepted by us.

I suppose the difference between omerta and fear is the insignia you have on your uniform.

Report what, though? Knowing people are getting off speeding fines and having access to specific information that's reportable are two very different things. Clerical sex abuse was very different as there was a victim external to the clergy, and if they talked about it, there were people external to the clergy with specific information who could have done something about it.

14-11-2018 11:43AM

Interesting day ahead for Brexit. May needs everyone on board, but it looks like the right wing Tories and DUP will now have to bring down the Government.

molloyjh · 14-11-2018 11:45AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Report what, though? Knowing people are getting off speeding fines and having access to specific information that's reportable are two very different things.

This. You can't report a general knowledge of something happening. It has to be a specific incident that can be investigated.

Given that McCabe himself said that he wouldn't do the same again if he knew what he would have gone through, you can hardly blame others for keeping their heads down. He may have been vindicated in the end, but that's 10 years of his life, and of his families lives, that will never go away.

I have to say, his wife was incredible. When kids are involved it would be so easy for this to have become a wedge between the two of them, yet she supported him fully throughout and seemed like an absolute rock for him. Fair play to them both, but they should never have had to deal with that stuff. And you could totally understand why others wouldn't want to have to go down the same road.

stephen_n · 14-11-2018 11:56AM

Buer wrote: »

As non-members of the clergy or a religious order, what were we supposed to do about their scandals?

Report it. Report it again. Raise the issue with your elected representative. I'm not for a second saying I'm not just as bad as anyone else in that regard, for the record. It was simply accepted by us.

I suppose the difference between omerta and fear is the insignia you have on your uniform.

What was done to McCabe is only a fraction of what the Garda would do to those who report them. You’d have no peace for the rest of your life. Maybe it’s changing, though I have my doubts, but many Garda believe the laws they enforce do not apply equally to them. That is a culture that didn’t develop by accident.

Buer · 14-11-2018 11:57AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Report what, though? Knowing people are getting off speeding fines and having access to specific information that's reportable are two very different things. Clerical sex abuse was very different as there was a victim external to the clergy, and if they talked about it, there were people external to the clergy with specific information who could have done something about it.

Some of McCabe's complaints were in relation to how the Gardaí handled their affairs with the public though with people external to the force. The final straw for him was a member of the force approaching a victim and telling him to drop his case. This is hardly something that hadn't happened elsewhere. There are plenty of issues with the Gardaí and their dealing with the public that were fully reportable.

The vast majority of Gardaí are competent and responsible public servants but I have no doubt that items like those that McCabe reported happened in every district.

In relation to the penalty points, I'm sure a strong case for nobody reporting it was the fact that it was actually beneficial to members of the public. Nobody was going to be found guilty of a motoring offence, put a call into the member of AGS they knew, have the points wiped and then report it as improper conduct. But it happened (aside from the reporting) in every town in the country, every week.

Off Topic Thread 4.0

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