Madeleine McCann

smelly sock · 12-11-2018 08:39PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

Very interesting steve!
All little things, but they all make you wonder

All figures of speech being used to form a narrative there is no evidence for.

Read into the McCanns body language , interviews and behaviour all you guys want but at the end of the day they are living a nightmare. They are under immmense strain and have been for some time. No doubt they have been mentally damaged by this. Id find it more odd if they were giving perfect interviews.

gozunda · 12-11-2018 10:03PM

Something Else

MonkieSocks wrote: »

I agree the Parents are very arrogant and were very irrsposable in the way the left their kids at night.

But if Madeline Died in the apartment 3rd may 2007.

Madeline was last seen by by someone other than their friends between 17.30 and 18.00, Amy Tierny.

Lets split the difference here and go for 1745.

So 17 .45 Kate and the kids are back Madeline dies soon after maybe 15 mins.

So if we have a time of Death 18.00

Cadaver scent

PRELIMINARY RESULTS: The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes.

However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

Again we split the difference for Cadaver scent + or - 30 mins of each other and get 2 hours.

So Cadaver scent is present at 20.00

McCans are the Tapas Bar at 20.35

So they are in an area unfamiliar to them, no transport.

How did they dispose of the body child in 35 mins, without the Portuguese Police or Scotland Yard ever finding any evidence of it

Approx 10pm onwards when Kate McCann sounded the alarm, the apartment was visited by many people, until it was eventually sealed off Police by at 4am May 4th 2007

The apartment wasn't washed as some have posted on here.

*Forensic people found trace amounts of Blood from 2 previous occupants,
This was conformed by 2 previous occupants of 5a.
Forensic people found trace amounts vomit in 5a.
This was also confirmed by one of the two occupants above who's child had been sick.

*I have not seen these case details previously. Do you have an official source for same?

Steve F · 12-11-2018 11:51PM

smelly sock wrote: »

All figures of speech being used to form a narrative there is no evidence for.

Read into the McCanns body language , interviews and behaviour all you guys want but at the end of the day they are living a nightmare. They are under immmense strain and have been for some time. No doubt they have been mentally damaged by this. Id find it more odd if they were giving perfect interviews.

They have always maintained that Maddie was alive when abducted (?) and that they will continue to search for her and deny any wrong doing and have no idea what happened then Gerry says they had nothing to do with her DEATH??
And that is a figure of speech?
It really does make you think surely?As soon as he said it I thought "Hang on,what did he say"? And if it was a mistake why did he make no attempt to correct himself?
You trash body language, interviews that show them in a negative light but expect people to believe ones that shows them in a positive light?
You say they are living a nightmare?You know that how?
At the end of the day you can no more prove anything about this case no more than I can

MonkieSocks · 13-11-2018 02:38AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

gozunda wrote: »

*I have not seen these case details previously. Do you have an official source for same?

Have a look here

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

I conclude further that, the DNA profiles obtained from the 'crime stain 1' and 286A/2007/CRL9A & B coincide with Charlie Gordon (bar code 51156964).

Shop40 · 13-11-2018 04:14AM

Why didn’t the McCanns search for Madeleine themselves when she went missing? He even played a game of tennis in the days afterward.

Nothing will convince me they don’t know what happened.

MonkieSocks · 13-11-2018 04:43AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

Two interviews watched over the weekend and these two quotes by Gerry struck me

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

"We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"
This one self explanatory

More things I can't explain but find odd

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

link for this

There is no Forensic Evidence None absolutely that there was a cadaver in 5A
________________________

"We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"
This one self explanatory.

I agree

Interviewer; Gerry are You and Kate are you in anyway connected with the Death of your daughter.

Gerry reply: "We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"

-

Deusexmachina · 13-11-2018 08:28AM

Steve F wrote: »

Two interviews watched over the weekend and these two quotes by Gerry struck me

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

"We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"
This one self explanatory

More things I can't explain but find odd

We are 100% sure Madeline was alive when she was abducted’.
Again, what is suspicious about that him saying that? He is saying that they believe the abductor didn’t murder her and then remove the body. (Which happens in many cases - Soham girls for example).

‘We can tell you we are not connected with her death’.
This is if she is dead. The family have always said that there is still a chance she is still alive until a body is found. He was answering a question worded in that way.

You are using semantics to find ‘suspicious’ behavior where there is none. If Gerry had killed his own daughter and miraculously buried her body without being seen, there would be a huge amount of evidence surfaced at this stage.

Give the poor parents a break. You have no evidence whatsoever that they killed their daughter - just a lot of conjecture which is very unfair on grieving parents.

Charmeleon · 13-11-2018 10:07AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

I agree the Parents are very arrogant and were very irrsposable in the way the left their kids at night.

But if Madeline Died in the apartment 3rd may 2007.

Madeline was last seen by by someone other than their friends between 17.30 and 18.00, Amy Tierny.

Lets split the difference here and go for 1745.

So 17 .45 Kate and the kids are back Madeline dies soon after maybe 15 mins.

So if we have a time of Death 18.00

Cadaver scent

PRELIMINARY RESULTS: The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes.

However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

Again we split the difference for Cadaver scent + or - 30 mins of each other and get 2 hours.

So Cadaver scent is present at 20.00

McCans are the Tapas Bar at 20.35

So they are in an area unfamiliar to them, no transport.

How did they dispose of the body child in 35 mins, without the Portuguese Police or Scotland Yard ever finding any evidence of it

Approx 10pm onwards when Kate McCann sounded the alarm, the apartment was visited by many people, until it was eventually sealed off Police by at 4am May 4th 2007

The apartment wasn't washed as some have posted on here.

Forensic people found trace amounts of Blood from 2 previous occupants,
This was conformed by 2 previous occupants of 5a.
Forensic people found trace amounts vomit in 5a.
This was also confirmed by one of the two occupants above who's child had been sick.

Even if the blood in the apartment could be accounted for, the problem is that the cadaver dog indicated in the parents bedroom, car and on clothes belonging to Kate and a child where the blood dog did not indicate. So old blood does not account for these multiple indications of a deceased person. The chances of this being a totally unrelated fluke must be astronomical.

Steve F · 13-11-2018 10:17AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

link for this

There is no Forensic Evidence None absolutely that there was a cadaver in 5A
________________________

"We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"
This one self explanatory.

I agree

Interviewer; Gerry are You and Kate are you in anyway connected with the Death of your daughter.

Gerry reply: "We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"

-

I would have thought the normal response here would be
" We don't believe she is dead" or

"What makes you believe she is dead?"
not Parroting what the interviewer has asked
Let me add here that I am as confused as the next person about this case
I am just trying to make head and tail of it all
When I hear or see something about it that strikes me as not right I question it
There is a very interesting series of 3 videos called "Embedded Confessions" with Peter Hyatt which definitely give food for thought
Again,my opinion and my opinion only
This is a discussion thread about the McCann case yes?

Steve F · 13-11-2018 10:27AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

link for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-lL1Ipt8j4&t=29s

Says it at 2mins 10 sec approx
.

Boom_Bap · 13-11-2018 11:00AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Shop40 wrote: »

Why didn’t the McCanns search for Madeleine themselves when she went missing? He even played a game of tennis in the days afterward.

Nothing will convince me they don’t know what happened.

To be honest, nobody could understand their mindset at that time.
Also, they may have been advised to go about things as normal and do stuff to try take their mind off things. Only they know that.

fin12 · 13-11-2018 12:27PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

Deusexmachina wrote: »

We are 100% sure Madeline was alive when she was abducted’.
Again, what is suspicious about that him saying that? He is saying that they believe the abductor didn’t murder her and then remove the body. (Which happens in many cases - Soham girls for example).

‘We can tell you we are not connected with her death’.
This is if she is dead. The family have always said that there is still a chance she is still alive until a body is found. He was answering a question worded in that way.

You are using semantics to find ‘suspicious’ behavior where there is none. If Gerry had killed his own daughter and miraculously buried her body without being seen, there would be a huge amount of evidence surfaced at this stage.

Give the poor parents a break. You have no evidence whatsoever that they killed their daughter - just a lot of conjecture which is very unfair on grieving parents.

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

Babooshka · 13-11-2018 12:53PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

To be honest, nobody could understand their mindset at that time.
Also, they may have been advised to go about things as normal and do stuff to try take their mind off things. Only they know that.

Did they speak about this in the aftermath? you sound as though you know for a fact that people around them didn't understand why they acted normal, just curious. I certainly could not go play a game of tennis feeling sick to my stomach that my 3 yr old was somewhere I had no idea where, that is probably the hardest part of this for me to understand and it does seem unbelievably odd. I don't even think they did any of the stuff a lot of people do, but that boggles my mind completely.

Boom_Bap · 13-11-2018 01:00PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I've no idea if they spoke of it and know nothing of fact

You are speaking of how you would deal/cope, everyone in that situation would/could act differently, that's the angle that I'm looking from.
Nobody can say for sure how or why they done anything in the days after the event.

iamwhoiam · 13-11-2018 01:17PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Babooshka wrote: »

Did they speak about this in the aftermath? you sound as though you know for a fact that people around them didn't understand why they acted normal, just curious. I certainly could not go play a game of tennis feeling sick to my stomach that my 3 yr old was somewhere I had no idea where, that is probably the hardest part of this for me to understand and it does seem unbelievably odd. I don't even think they did any of the stuff a lot of people do, but that boggles my mind completely.

I think it's difficult to get into their mindset at the best of times . I accept that everyone is different but I struggle with a lot of the Mc Canns decisions to be honest .
The fact they brought three small children on holiday to Portugal snd then put them in a creche boggles my mind . They saw them at best for two or three hours a day , the rest was all about them . Jogging , tennis , meals out
The fact they looked at the risks of leaving three small children alone and unsupervised and chose to have a meal out instead
The fact they heard Madeleine say she and Sean cried and still went and left them that very night again
The fact they ignored the offer of a paid baby sitter to watch over three very young instead decided to leave them unsupervised
All these decisions scream out that it was all about the adults having a good time , they scream selfishness and lack of any sort of compromise .
In my world parents take kids on holidays and enjoy them enjoying it . They put them to bed and stay with them or take them out asleep in buggies
I posted early in thread that most thinking ,caring , responsible parents would do this instinctively .

Yet I still don't see it as leading me to believe they purposely harmed Madeleine . I think they handed her on a plate by making it very easy for an opportunist or a planned abduction . This they have to live with and in my opinion it is this guilt that drives them to never letting this go and thinking that Madeleine is alive and waiting . Guilt is a huge huge burden to carry .

MrStuffins · 13-11-2018 01:24PM

fin12 wrote: »

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

And I have no evidence that the ghost of John Lennon lives on the moon. It's not up to someone to have proof that something ISN'T the case. it's the other way around.

Babooshka · 13-11-2018 01:28PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

This they have to live with and in my opinion it is this guilt that drives them to never letting this go and thinking that Madeleine is alive and waiting . Guilt is a huge huge burden to carry .

I am very much of the same mindset as you. Not relating to their parenting style doesn't make them guilty of being involved in anything more sinister than neglect and handing them up for an opportunist. I do agree spending a holiday with the kids is for the kids fun mainly, a babysitter at night, I get it, that would have been the answer - but too late for that little pet, and I'm sure they agonise over that. It's so tragic and sad.

MonkieSocks · 13-11-2018 02:26PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

MonkieSocks wrote: »

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?
link for this

Says it at 2mins 10 sec approx
.

Thanks for link.

We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"

What is wrong with that statement.

_________________________________________________________

Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

There is no Forensic Evidence, None absolutely that there was a cadaver in 5A

Boom_Bap · 13-11-2018 02:48PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MOD NOTE
I'm lifting all the thread bans that were put in place last week.

For those returning, please play nice.

fin12 · 13-11-2018 02:50PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

MrStuffins wrote: »

And I have no evidence that the ghost of John Lennon lives on the moon. It's not up to someone to have proof that something ISN'T the case. it's the other way around.

No u can be as guilty as sin but not enough evidence to convict u.

cnocbui · 13-11-2018 03:03PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

No u can be as guilty as sin but not enough evidence to convict u.

So what? It's a meaningless statement of the obvious that brings nothing to the discussion. The MacCaans are as legally innocent..

retro:electro · 13-11-2018 03:09PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I would say that they have reconciled themselves with the fact that Madeline is now dead. In a way, it’s probably the best scenario out of some bad options. I think after all this time I would just rather her to be at peace rather than being under the control of god knows who, so him saying “we had nothing to do with her death”, isn’t that remarkable to me. I think this over analysis of what they did or didn’t do or did or didn’t say in the aftermath is futile. We were privileged from the start in that we had unrestricted access to their every move, and so a lot of what they said and did was up for consumption. We do not have that kind of access with other cases, and so actually, we have no idea how people in this scenario should act. Look at Shannon Matthew’s mum, what you would think to be a textbook response to a missing child, yet it later came out she was responsible. I’m sure if you went through every crime ever committed you would find the loved ones doing all sorts of suspicious and odd things, but this shouldn’t be used as a barometer for guilt or innocence. I know through some of the hardest times of my life I’ve done and said some stupid things, I would hope no one would judge me for things I did when I was at my lowest.

Also, if we are to believe Gerry was involved in her death- through accidental or intent- would he really go out and play tennis the next day? He would totally milk it and do a Karen Matthews on it. People paint a picture of him as a clinically cold father and person, disposed of Maddie and staged an abduction so he could keep Sean and Amelie.. surely if the casual disposal of his little daughter’s body was such a non event in his life then losing custody of his other two children would be a walk in the park.

Also, just imagine for a minute that they weren’t involved. Not only have they had to live with the fact their daughter was abducted, but also half of the internet believe they killed her. It’s just wrong. I’m not excusing their behaviour, it was awful and they are part responsible for handing her up on a plate as an earlier post correctly says.

Boom_Bap · 13-11-2018 03:15PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"

There may be evidence that proves this happened which could prove this statement true. We just don't know, I'm just playing devils advocate on that.

Not all evidence is released to the press/media, so we don't know.

fin12 · 13-11-2018 03:18PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

retro:electro wrote: »

I would say that they have reconciled themselves with the fact that Madeline is now dead. In a way, it’s probably the best scenario out of some bad options. I think after all this time I would just rather her to be at peace rather than being under the control of god knows who, so him saying “we had nothing to do with her death”, isn’t that remarkable to me. I think this over analysis of what they did or didn’t do or did or didn’t say in the aftermath is futile. We were privileged from the start in that we had unrestricted access to their every move, and so a lot of what they said and did was up for consumption. We do not have that kind of access with other cases, and so actually, we have no idea how people in this scenario should act. Look at Shannon Matthew’s mum, what you would think to be a textbook response to a missing child, yet it later came out she was responsible. I’m sure if you went through every crime ever committed you would find the loved ones doing all sorts of suspicious and odd things, but this shouldn’t be used as a barometer for guilt or innocence. I know through some of the hardest times of my life I’ve done and said some stupid things, I would hope no one would judge me for things I did when I was at my lowest.

Also, if we are to believe Gerry was involved in her death- through accidental or intent- would he really go out and play tennis the next day? He would totally milk it and do a Karen Matthews on it. People paint a picture of him as a clinically cold, disposed of Maddie and staged an abduction so he could keep Sean and Amelie.. surely if the casual disposal of his little daughter’s body was such a non event in his life then losing custody of his other two children would be a walk in the park.

Might not have been about the other two children at all, didnt want to lose his career and go to prison.

retro:electro · 13-11-2018 03:23PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Orrrr.. maybe he didn’t kill her :pac:

retro:electro · 13-11-2018 03:25PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

And u have no evidence either that they weren’t involved.

Thankfully the pinnacle of justice relies on proving guilt, not innocence.

Steve F · 13-11-2018 03:44PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Thankfully the pinnacle of justice relies on proving guilt, not innocence.

Neither of which has been done.........

retro:electro · 13-11-2018 03:44PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Exactly

cnocbui · 13-11-2018 04:46PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

There may be evidence that proves this happened which could prove this statement true. We just don't know, I'm just playing devils advocate on that.

Not all evidence is released to the press/media, so we don't know.

What evidence is there that hasn't been released?

Boom_Bap · 13-11-2018 04:48PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

What evidence is there that hasn't been released?

That's the thing, we don't know.
Evidence in cases can be withheld from the public, we don't know if there is any in this case

Madeleine McCann

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