Madeleine McCann

Spanish Eyes · 09-11-2018 12:44AM

The parents are doctors. Above reproach maybe? I dunno.

Deusexmachina · 09-11-2018 12:56AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

those are facts. not my opinion.

i dont know what happened . i can only theorise what happened just like you and everyone else.

there is zero evidence of an abduction. the only thing to point towards it is kate saying they have taken her. nothing else.

i would like to think that maddie was abducted but there is nothing to point in that way.

i dont know if the parents did anything or covered anything up . but they have done a lot of wierd and suspicious things that make them suspects.

What do you even mean ‘zero evidence of an abduction?’ Did you think they would leave a note?
The parents have done nothing ‘weird’. It’s all just people reading something into nothing.

Deusexmachina · 09-11-2018 12:57AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The parents are doctors. Above reproach maybe? I dunno.

Nothing to do with it whatsoever. They are not ‘beyond reproach ‘. They were wrong to leave their children unattended.

Charmeleon · 09-11-2018 01:08AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

This Blue bag........Photographed by the Portugese police.
Checked by Martin Grimes Dogs...no signal given.
No Blood or bodily fluids found by forensic people

Have you got a link to where it says that " They Didn't have this bag " ?

Are you referring to the bag on the table in the top left photo? That’s not the blue hold-all/tennis bag.

the_pen_turner · 09-11-2018 01:16AM

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What do you even mean ‘zero evidence of an abduction?’ Did you think they would leave a note?
The parents have done nothing ‘weird’. It’s all just people reading something into nothing.

of course there wouldnt be a note.
but if someone went into an unfamilier dark room and picked up a child you would expect something to be left behind or knocked over ect.

nothing wierd. so washing your missing childs favorite toy is not wierd
lying several times to police isnt wierd
leaveing 3 toddlers alone for the evening isnt wierd

Deusexmachina · 09-11-2018 01:21AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

of course there wouldnt be a note.
but if someone went into an unfamilier dark room and picked up a child you would expect something to be left behind or knocked over ect.

nothing wierd. so washing your missing childs favorite toy is not wierd
lying several times to police isnt wierd
leaveing 3 toddlers alone for the evening isnt wierd

lying several times to the police?

the_pen_turner · 09-11-2018 01:24AM

Something Else

Deusexmachina wrote: »

lying several times to the police?

claiming the window was opened and broken but when police checked it was closed, locked and hadnt been opened in a long time with moss undisterbed

claiming not to have had a bag but pictures showing it there.

MonkieSocks · 09-11-2018 01:30AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

Are you referring to the bag on the table in the top left photo? That’s not the blue hold-all/tennis bag.

It's the only Blue bag they brought to Portugal.

There is a list of the luggage they brought with them and photos on this site.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/sitemap.htm

2 Luggage Bags checked in Airport England.

3 carry on bags seen in video of them where Madeline tripped getting on the plane.

Gerry McCann brought a rucksack to tennis, again it on the files above.

Charmeleon wrote: »

Are you referring to the bag on the table in the top left photo? That’s not the blue hold-all/tennis bag.

OK what did it look like?

Toots · 09-11-2018 01:37AM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What do you even mean ‘zero evidence of an abduction?’ Did you think they would leave a note?
The parents have done nothing ‘weird’. It’s all just people reading something into nothing.

The only evidence of an abduction is the McCann's saying she was abducted, as far as I'm aware. There's no evidence of anyone else being in the apartment, no ransom demand, etc.

I think it's unfair to say people are reading something into nothing, the McCann's come off as extremely cagey any time they've been interviewed. I'm not saying they did or didn't have any part to play beyond their horrendous neglect of their kids, but there's a definite shady vibe there, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility for people to wonder if they are telling the truth.

Statistically, a child is more likely to be harmed by someone close to them, so even going by that alone, there would be reason to question the parents, unless there was something that could concretely rule it out. And in fairness, from a police point of view, there's already a pattern of neglect - they readily admitted leaving a very young child and 2 toddlers unattended while they went out to dinner with friends. The police said the bedroom scene appeared to be staged. Blood traces were found in the apartment.

All of that is more than enough to raise doubts in people's minds about whether or not the McCann's are telling the truth.

MonkieSocks · 09-11-2018 01:41AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

the_pen_turner wrote: »

claiming the window was opened and broken but when police checked it was closed, locked and hadnt been opened in a long time with moss undisterbed

claiming not to have had a bag but pictures showing it there.

Window was open and shutter raised.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

There are photos of this widly available.

Again can you provide a link where they said they hadn't the Blue bag in the photo.

the_pen_turner · 09-11-2018 01:49AM

Something Else

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Window was open and shutter raised.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

There are photos of this widly available.

Again can you provide a link where they said they hadn't the Blue bag in the photo.

someone pested earlier links that the police said the window wasnt open and hadnt been for some time. i will have to go back and make sure

cnocbui · 09-11-2018 01:54AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

No, there is very significant evidence that Madeline might have been abducted - she has disappeared without trace. It's really fairly binary - she was either abducted or died in the resort. A massive amount of effort has gone into examining the parents, their friends and numerous other people known to be in the resort at the time. The result of that immense effort is that there has not been one skerrick of evidence of any known person in the resort having been involved in the death of Madeline. There is no evidence that she is even dead or died.

A rapid abduction is entirely possible to contemplate that did not leave any evidence. The same can not be said for the other theory, it is in fact near impossible to contemplate a perfect, convoluted and involved chain of events involving the death of Madeline without any trace evidence whatsoever.

So while there is no evidence of abduction beyond Madeline having disappeared, it is a logically more likely scenario than the other one - by a substantial margin.

MonkieSocks · 09-11-2018 02:03AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

the_pen_turner wrote: »

someone posted earlier links that the police said the window wasn't open and hadn't been for some time. I will have to go back and make sure

Thats Ok Pen

Here's a direct link to all the photos.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PHOTOGRAPHS.htm

09-11-2018 09:57AM

Something Else

Too much money has been spent on this now. Surely there is nothing left to investigate at this point. There hasn't even been any sort of theory put forward that isn't pure speculation, and i'm not referring to us, I'm referring to the investigators that spent millions investigating. They're no closer to solving this at all.

The case died the day they didn't have enough evidence to convict the parents.

Kingp35 · 09-11-2018 11:02AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

So while there is no evidence of abduction beyond Madeline having disappeared, it is a logically more likely scenario than the other one - by a substantial margin.

This is correct, the balance of probabilities clearly point to an abduction. However, it is not the only possible scenario and therefore it can't be definitively said the Maddie was abducted.

Steve F · 09-11-2018 11:36AM

My mind keeps returning to the fact that "Cuddle Cat" was washed after Maddie went missing.Kate said it was covered in sunscreen?
Surely it would have had the scent of Maddie on it too which would have been a comfort at such a traumatic time
It puzzles me

Charmeleon · 09-11-2018 11:37AM

Kingp35 wrote: »

This is correct, the balance of probabilities clearly point to an abduction. However, it is not the only possible scenario and therefore it can't be definitively said the Maddie was abducted.

There’s three likely scenarios from my point of view:

1. Stranger abduction exactly as claimed by those involved.

2. Stranger abduction but investigation misled about the circumstances, timings of checks, person seen waking away from apartment with a child.

3. Accidental/intentional death and concealment of the circumstances.

I think any rational examination of the facts and statements excludes option 1.

Charmeleon · 09-11-2018 11:54AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

It's the only Blue bag they brought to Portugal.

There is a list of the luggage they brought with them and photos on this site.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/sitemap.htm

2 Luggage Bags checked in Airport England.

3 carry on bags seen in video of them where Madeline tripped getting on the plane.

Gerry McCann brought a rucksack to tennis, again it on the files above.

OK what did it look like?

cnocbui · 09-11-2018 12:07PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

My mind keeps returning to the fact that "Cuddle Cat" was washed after Maddie went missing.Kate said it was covered in sunscreen?
Surely it would have had the scent of Maddie on it too which would have been a comfort at such a traumatic time
It puzzles me

Let me help you with that. Kate wanted to hold and carry Cuddle Cat for comfort, but she also wanted to look presentable because of the media attention. If it was really greasy, the two aims would have been incompatible. You wouldn't be able to smell your child's scent through the stench of many a sunscreen anyway. It is very probable that Kate had access to many other items that retained Madeline's scent - we know there were because they were used to trigger the GNR tracking and SAR dogs - but weren't covered in sunscreen, so washing Cuddle Cat was an obvious thing to do.

loveall · 09-11-2018 12:21PM

St Catherine of Siena feast day 29/4.

cnocbui · 09-11-2018 12:21PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Toots wrote: »

The only evidence of an abduction is the McCann's saying she was abducted, as far as I'm aware. There's no evidence of anyone else being in the apartment, no ransom demand, etc.

I think it's unfair to say people are reading something into nothing, the McCann's come off as extremely cagey any time they've been interviewed. I'm not saying they did or didn't have any part to play beyond their horrendous neglect of their kids, but there's a definite shady vibe there, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility for people to wonder if they are telling the truth.

Statistically, a child is more likely to be harmed by someone close to them, so even going by that alone, there would be reason to question the parents, unless there was something that could concretely rule it out. And in fairness, from a police point of view, there's already a pattern of neglect - they readily admitted leaving a very young child and 2 toddlers unattended while they went out to dinner with friends. The police said the bedroom scene appeared to be staged. Blood traces were found in the apartment.

All of that is more than enough to raise doubts in people's minds about whether or not the McCann's are telling the truth.

You are one of the legion of experts who think they know how parents should act in such stressful circumstances and think they can 'read' people and who gleefully placed cord wood at the feet of Lindy Chamberlain to burn her alive on the pyre of public perception.

'O, aye, she's a cold heartless witch, that one - shifty an' all by the look a her. Burn her I say!'

Charmeleon · 09-11-2018 12:44PM

cnocbui wrote: »

You are one of the legion of experts who think they know how parents should act in such stressful circumstances and think they can 'read' people and who gleefully placed cord wood at the feet of Lindy Chamberlain to burn her alive on the pyre of public perception.

'O, aye, she's a cold heartless witch, that one - shifty an' all by the look a her. Burn her I say!'

Yet the people who believe the McCann story are constantly doing the exact same thing when they say “there’s no way two parents who have found their child dead could behave fairly normal that evening’.

09-11-2018 01:32PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

I think any rational examination of the facts and statements excludes option 1.

Why? Which facts make stranger abduction unlikely?

MonkieSocks · 09-11-2018 06:03PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

That's a Luggage/suitcase.

One of two the brought with them to portugal

Two main baggage identification tags 340816 and 340817

From 2nd August 2007

OBJECTS FOR EXAMINATION
1. One (01) pink cloth toy, with yellow paws and ears and blue label, make "cuddle cat", with a third in wood and a green band, alluding to Fatima, that was found in the lounge on top of a large chair [armchair].
2. Clothes, shoes, bags [hand-bags; suitcases] and travel bags [knapsacks] that were packed as follows:
- Lounge, two boxes.
- Master bedroom, two boxes.
- Twins' bedroom, one suitcase.
- Visitors' bedroom, one suitcase.

This what it is in the photo you posted

Toots · 09-11-2018 06:08PM

cnocbui wrote: »

You are one of the legion of experts who think they know how parents should act in such stressful circumstances and think they can 'read' people and who gleefully placed cord wood at the feet of Lindy Chamberlain to burn her alive on the pyre of public perception.

'O, aye, she's a cold heartless witch, that one - shifty an' all by the look a her. Burn her I say!'

???

Where are you getting that from? You don't know me, and I certainly never claimed to be able to "read" people or anything of the sort. I just said the Mc Canns come off cagey in interviews, which they do. Whether that's because they're hiding something, or whether they're just not good in front of the cameras.

Personally, I'd find it difficult to trust them not because of how they come off in interviews, but because they repeatedly left their small children alone while they went out with their friends.

MonkieSocks · 09-11-2018 06:17PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

My mind keeps returning to the fact that "Cuddle Cat" was washed after Maddie went missing.Kate said it was covered in sunscreen?
Surely it would have had the scent of Maddie on it too which would have been a comfort at such a traumatic time
It puzzles me

From Kate McCanns diary:

THURSDAY, JULY 12:

Today I washed the Cuddle Cat. (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate).
I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX

This was 70 days after the child went missing

18 Days before grimes arrived.

When Kate McCann washed the toy neither she or local police knew grimes would arrive 18 days later

MonkieSocks · 09-11-2018 07:02PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Toots wrote: »

???

I agree the Parents are very arrogant and were very irrsposable in the way the left their kids at night.

But if Madeline Died in the apartment 3rd may 2007.

Madeline was last seen by by someone other than their friends between 17.30 and 18.00, Amy Tierny.

Lets split the difference here and go for 1745.

So 17 .45 Kate and the kids are back Madeline dies soon after maybe 15 mins.

So if we have a time of Death 18.00

Cadaver scent

PRELIMINARY RESULTS: The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes.

However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

Again we split the difference for Cadaver scent + or - 30 mins of each other and get 2 hours.

So Cadaver scent is present at 20.00

McCans are the Tapas Bar at 20.35

So they are in an area unfamiliar to them, no transport.

How did they dispose of the body child in 35 mins, without the Portuguese Police or Scotland Yard ever finding any evidence of it

Approx 10pm onwards when Kate McCann sounded the alarm, the apartment was visited by many people, until it was eventually sealed off Police by at 4am May 4th 2007

The apartment wasn't washed as some have posted on here.

Forensic people found trace amounts of Blood from 2 previous occupants,
This was conformed by 2 previous occupants of 5a.
Forensic people found trace amounts vomit in 5a.
This was also confirmed by one of the two occupants above who's child had been sick.

Deusexmachina · 09-11-2018 07:09PM

Steve F wrote: »

My mind keeps returning to the fact that "Cuddle Cat" was washed after Maddie went missing.Kate said it was covered in sunscreen?
Surely it would have had the scent of Maddie on it too which would have been a comfort at such a traumatic time
It puzzles me

This is such a non event and has been made a big deal for little reason. Kate carried the toy around with her as a comfort and is seen holding it in many interviews. But it is dirty with sun cream so she washes it - otherwise her clothes would get stained from carrying it.
She has tons of other items with Maddie’s scent on them - clothes, blankets, toys etc. why on earth is this suspicious? Do you think it was maybe dripping with blood or something?

Steve F · 12-11-2018 12:11PM

Two interviews watched over the weekend and these two quotes by Gerry struck me

" We are 100% sure Madeleine was alive when she was abducted"
Why would anyone abduct a dead body?

"We can tell you that we are not connected with her DEATH"
This one self explanatory

More things I can't explain but find odd

Cyrus T Buford · 12-11-2018 08:33PM

Something Else

Very interesting steve!
All little things, but they all make you wonder

Madeleine McCann

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