Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Because most European countries are too small or to weak to compete on the world stage by themselves anymore. This isn't just a European issues, across the world trade blocks are forming or formed.

Spook_ie wrote: »

If Ireland is exporting more of something to the EU why would we vote the UK a better trade or equal trade deal when we can just play hardball, we have the backstop and nothing to lose, maybe it might be something on the services side, we can still play hardball and no fallback for the UK take it or leave it.

J Mysterio wrote: »

Scary stuff. British society is breaking down and really seems to be on the brink of chaos.

Historically speaking - with some obvious but notable exceptions - I would have considered the UK to be a reliable or consistent country, with predictable attitudes and a deliberate, measured approach. More and more this seems a thing of the past though, and to be more representative of the 'old Britain'.

Ireland has changed dramitacally in 50 years, but we have been looking forward. Building on the foundations laid by the constitution, we have slowly and surely developed this country, latterly by joining the EEA and EU. We look forward with positivity, busying ourselves in enthusastically tackling consitutional issues, but in an informed, adult and respectful way.

Britain seems to be the opposite - it is looking backwards and has been for some time. Britain is not what it was and resentment has built up. Where did it go wrong they wonder? How can the country that 'brought civilization' and 'the rule of law' to half the known world - making much of it theirs - have lost such power and influence and respect?

I watched a lot of Hitchens today - both brothers - and I found one interview particularly interesting. It is Peter Hitchens being interviewed on C-Span, ostensibly to promote his book; 'The Abolition of Britain'. It's from 2000, but is still relevant. Wheras Christopher is of the left and rails against God and the establishment (and most any institution), Peter is very much of the right and for 'the establishment' and all the things you might think of when you think of the British Empire.

The Aboliton of Britain is ostensibly his account of the end of that 'old Britain' and its transformation into the Britain of today. A lesser Britain in his view, it is a lament. A Britain diminished by a loss of or disfigurement to its values or it's character and how it is at risk of being fully shorn of the qualities that made Britain 'great'.

While this predates Brexit considerably, I find it interesting as I feel he is elucidating something many Brexiters feel but can't properly articulate. It is like a trauma at the rapid globalisation we have experienced and how this has changed the UK forever. Others like the DUP, for example, cannot accept this either - though in their case they are entirely backward.

I appreciate some of his points, such as a loss of civility, and the threat to the imagination and the homogenisation of youth posed/ caused by mass culture (something Michael D touched on in his inauguration speech), but I feel he is being overly romantic, overly conservative and a little backward too.

However, the key element seems to be that the UK has not coped with Globalisation and its concurrent loss of influence. For so long they have been the exporters and purveyors of culture to a global audience. But things have changed so drastically: their influence is greatly reduced and indeed society at home is dreadfully unequal and divided.

The lack of planning in the integration of immigrant communities has been particuarly disastrous. An unmitigated disaster which seems to now have the Orwellian Hostile Environment prescribed as a cure. A remedy which is badly affecting good and law abiding citizens and is creating a fervile atmosphere. Large sections of society completely disaffected, unsupported and at odds with each other. No go areas and no opportunity areas. Seemingly worsening class divisons. Racial hatred and ghettoisation. A horrifying stabbing/ acid attack epidemic in London.

Things are very bad indeed and the UK need to come to terms with this, though I don't see that it is possible in the current context and with the crowd on offer. A limping, teetering government sponsored by backwards extremists and half full of semi demented nationalists suffering Post Empire Stress Disorder. An opposition waiting for it to die no matter the cost, refusing to turn off the life support, not even to ease the suffering. It's a bloody sad and disastrous situation and its just going to get worse.