Biochar and natural farming

charolais0153 · 17-10-2018 6:22pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well?

At 20t to the acre. 30m2

timfromtang · 17-10-2018 7:08pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How much land would 150kg cover?

that would have a volume of about 1/2 m³ so would cover 50 m² at 1 cm thick, 500 m² at 1mm thick, depends on your application rate.
I'd suggest that your application rate would depend on your objective in adding the char to your soil in the first place.

char at 1mm thick evenly distributed over your soil equates to approximately 3 metric tons per hectare.

charcoal is available on international markets from about €1/kg or €1000tonne.

tim

patsy_mccabe · 17-10-2018 7:13pm

So €3,000 /hectare to apply 1mm? :rolleyes:

Say my name · 17-10-2018 7:54pm

Figures aren't my thing.
(It's actually a wonder I'm still farming).

But in theory it would only need to be done the once.
I actually wonder how much it cost to do Ascot racecourse now? Ha!

I can see why it might be more feasible if the farmer produces it themselves.

(There's actually a mobile sevice making Biochar from the farmers own biomass in Australia ). They seem to be making a living from it with no shortage of customers.

I suppose if it works then future fertilizer input savings would have to be taken into account too.

Financial help from the carbon markets will have to come into play though before anyone starts to spend money on this.

Say my name · 17-10-2018 8:16pm

Say my name wrote: »

Figures aren't my thing.
(It's actually a wonder I'm still farming).

But in theory it would only need to be done the once.
I actually wonder how much it cost to do Ascot racecourse now? Ha!

I can see why it might be more feasible if the farmer produces it themselves.

(There's actually a mobile sevice making Biochar from the farmers own biomass in Australia ). They seem to be making a living from it with no shortage of customers.

I suppose if it works then future fertilizer input savings would have to be taken into account too.

Financial help from the carbon markets will have to come into play though before anyone starts to spend money on this.

AHA!

I knew there had to be a reason it's taken off in Oz.
The farmers get paid since 2012.

https://www.craigsams.com/bio-char/

Say my name · 25-10-2018 8:17pm

"0.5% biochar added to the national herd's diet would reduce the country's emissions by 5%"
- Speaker at today's Biochar conference.

ganmo · 25-10-2018 8:28pm

Say my name wrote: »

"0.5% biochar added to the national herd's diet would reduce the country's emissions by 5%"
- Speaker at today's Biochar conference.

Is there any feed grade biochar available? I’ve never heard of any

Say my name · 25-10-2018 8:29pm

Annual value of Irish sectors in which biochar can play a role.

Fertilizer - €565 million.
Animal feed - €400 million.
Horticulture - €433 million.
Landscaping - €826 million.
Soil remediation - €50 million.

ganmo · 25-10-2018 8:38pm

ganmo wrote: »

Is there any feed grade biochar available? I’ve never heard of any

I can’t see any mention of it on the feed materials registrar, until it’s register no miller will put it in a feed

Say my name · 25-10-2018 8:39pm

ganmo wrote: »

Is there any feed grade biochar available? I’ve never heard of any

Already in use in Blue chip horse feed.

As a separate addition for anyone to include themselves it looks like you'll have to make your own for the time being.

Ibers in Aberystwyth is doing trials with straw biochar on dairy cows.

The best option for anyone atm if interested is make your own in a farming group and pellet it with a tractor pto pellet maker and add that way.

Everyone is dragging their heels though to see if the Eu and government will pony up before farmers are encouraged to do so though.
So some mindless trials continue.

Say my name · 25-10-2018 8:41pm

ganmo wrote: »

I can’t see any mention of it on the feed materials registrar, until it’s register no miller will put it in a feed

It's called something else though for feed atm so that's how that's got around.
(The name escapes me).

blue5000 · 25-10-2018 8:46pm

Say my name wrote: »

It's called something else though for feed atm so that's how that's got around.
(The name escapes me).

Ash!

Say my name · 25-10-2018 8:52pm

The biggest players there today were the pharmaceutical industries on use of activated carbon.
Then using it in waste water treatment plants and municipal green waste making electricity from that through biogas and fertilizer from the liquid and fuel /biochar for householders, replacing turf and coal and oil.
Also the Irish love of turf will have to be consigned to history just like the Estonians adapted.

(I think I was the only farmer there. Everyone else had lab technician or biomass plants or sewage service or whatnot on their name tag.
On my nametag was dairy farmer and forestry. :pac: )
Nice free dinner though.

Say my name · 25-10-2018 8:54pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Ash!

It could be.
I don't think it is though.

amacca · 25-10-2018 8:58pm

Say my name wrote: »

The biggest players there today were the pharmaceutical industries on use of activated carbon.
Then using it in waste water treatment plants and municipal green waste making electricity from that through biogas and fertilizer from the liquid and fuel /biochar for householders, replacing turf and coal and oil.
Also the Irish love of turf will have to be consigned to history just like the Estonians adapted.

The activated carbon guy I spoke to was saying he sees biochar as having a role in land remediation. Thats its niche in his opinion.

ganmo · 25-10-2018 9:03pm

http://www.feedmaterialsregister.eu
Horse feed can get away with more than beef/sheep rations.

Say my name · 25-10-2018 9:07pm

amacca wrote: »

The activated carbon guy I spoke to was saying he sees biochar as having a role in land remediation. Thats its niche in his opinion.

Ah jeez I should have looked out for ya.

You can simply activate carbon by putting water into a hot kontiki kiln of charcoal. The steam breaks open the pores on the charcoal.
It's the same principle as those fancy kilns from the big companies.

I was sitting beside a lad at dinner who bought the Glanbia/Yoplait stainless steel plant at Inch, Wexford for use in making Biochar kilns.

Say my name · 25-10-2018 9:09pm

ganmo wrote: »

http://www.feedmaterialsregister.eu
Horse feed can get away with more than beef/sheep rations.

I'll take your word for it. Ganmo.

YFlyer · 26-10-2018 11:49am

Say my name wrote: »

"0.5% biochar added to the national herd's diet would reduce the country's emissions by 5%"
- Speaker at today's Biochar conference.

Hi there

Where was this conference?

Thanks

YFlyer · 26-10-2018 11:51am

Say my name wrote: »

It's called something else though for feed atm so that's how that's got around.
(The name escapes me).

Activated carbon?

Say my name · 26-10-2018 12:09pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Activated carbon?

No it was Plant derived something or other that the speaker was calling it.
The speaker was feeding biochar to their cows and noticed improved health and reduction in the need for wormers.

If the question is what is activated carbon?
It's char that is exploded by steam making it many more times more porous than it was beforehand.
The speaker would have been feeding activated carbon to their cows though.
So your post is correct.

Say my name · 26-10-2018 12:12pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Hi there

Where was this conference?

Thanks

Yesterday in Claremorris.

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/biochar-and-activated-carbon-conference-tickets-49037624856

YFlyer · 26-10-2018 12:13pm

Say my name wrote: »

No it was Plant derived something or other that the speaker was calling it.
The speaker was feeding biochar to their cows and noticed improved health and reduction in the need for wormers.

If the question is what is activated carbon?
It's char that is exploded by steam making it many more times more porous than it was beforehand.
The speaker would have been feeding activated carbon to their cows though.
So your post is correct.

Thanks.

There is research carried out at University of Limerick on biochar for plant growth.

Where was the conference?

Say my name · 26-10-2018 12:19pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Thanks.

There is research carried out at University of Limerick on biochar for plant growth.

Where was the conference?

See above.

Yea the University of Limerick was well represented yesterday.

YFlyer · 26-10-2018 12:27pm

Say my name wrote: »

Yesterday in Claremorris.

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/biochar-and-activated-carbon-conference-tickets-49037624856

Thanks a million.

YFlyer · 26-10-2018 4:21pm

Say my name wrote: »

See above.

Yea the University of Limerick was well represented yesterday.

Was probably my supervisor Prof. Michael Hayes that would likely have said something from the floor.

patsy_mccabe · 26-10-2018 4:28pm

You're like a dog with a bone on this Biochar 'Say My Name'.

Say my name · 26-10-2018 4:39pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Was probably my supervisor Prof. Michael Hayes that would likely have said something from the floor.

P.m. sent.

charolais0153 · 26-10-2018 4:40pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You're like a dog with a bone on this Biochar 'Say My Name'.

Aye. Tis in the farmers journal also

charolais0153 · 26-10-2018 4:41pm

Say my name wrote: »

Yesterday in Claremorris.

https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/biochar-and-activated-carbon-conference-tickets-49037624856

Did you attend

Say my name · 26-10-2018 4:41pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You're like a dog with a bone on this Biochar 'Say My Name'.

Ciunas at the back of the class!!!

Say my name · 26-10-2018 4:44pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Did you attend

You've poor land over there.

Too many stone walls. Not enough trees on ditches and zero dairy cows.

charolais0153 · 26-10-2018 4:53pm

Say my name wrote: »

You've poor land over there.

Too many stone walls. Not enough trees on ditches and zero dairy cows.

Whatever about land,the weather is a way worse,only about two wet days in dublin in 2 months.
Yewtree is one side of claremorris, he wont like to hear that. What way did you go? M6 -M17

Say my name · 26-10-2018 5:00pm

charolais0153 wrote: »

Whatever about land,the weather is a way worse,only about two wet days in dublin in 2 months.
Yewtree is one side of claremorris, he wont like to hear that. What way did you go? M6 -M17

If that's the motorway from ballinasloe to Galway and then the Sligo motorway.
Then yep.

I didn't post that I was going to attend beforehand as even though this is a fairly innocuous forum there's little trolls that could get ideas from reading here so it's better after the event.

Say my name · 30-10-2018 9:14pm

Converting bones to Biochar.

It seems it's a commercial business in the U.S.
Nice interesting article all the same.
Napoleon gets a mention too.

http://ecofarmingdaily.com/bone-char-benefits/?fbclid=IwAR0F-QpH0Ac_3R7_fmNax4XFFosdOaowpBxrUfjxE5qqrIIRVwrUTR1tWDM

I wonder what happens the bones from the factories in this country?
Meat and bone meal is done away with now soo. .?

alps · 30-10-2018 9:26pm

Say my name wrote: »

Converting bones to Biochar.

It seems it's a commercial business in the U.S.
Nice interesting article all the same.
Napoleon gets a mention too.

http://ecofarmingdaily.com/bone-char-benefits/?fbclid=IwAR0F-QpH0Ac_3R7_fmNax4XFFosdOaowpBxrUfjxE5qqrIIRVwrUTR1tWDM

I wonder what happens the bones from the factories in this country?
Meat and bone meal is done away with now soo. .?

Not a chance that it would be allowed to be land spread in Ireland.

Render from factories is exported, to Germany I believe, for further treatment and incineration.

Say my name · 30-10-2018 9:36pm

alps wrote: »

Not a chance that it would be allowed to be land spread in Ireland.

Render from factories is exported, to Germany I believe, for further treatment and incineration.

There'd be no biological material left after being cooked at 900 degrees though. Just carbon and whatever elements were in that bone in the first place.
Makes sense to me anyway, carbon footprints and so so.

Water John · 30-10-2018 9:51pm

I thought the BSE prion was very difficult to get rid of?

Say my name · 30-10-2018 10:04pm

Water John wrote: »

I thought the BSE prion was very difficult to get rid of?

I couldn't tell you on that but the charred bone should be the same nearly indistinguishable from a charred lump of timber. So imagine a pure charcoal lump of timber and the charcoal bone should be the very same.
Somehow I doubt it could survive.
Cos all would be left would be the carbon really and then obviously the pure elements in that char.

Edit: seemingly it can survive up to 360 c for an hour at that heat and one group seemingly survived at 600 c for how long at that I don't know.

Water John · 30-10-2018 11:32pm

Because of its resilience I thought they hydrolised infected animals.
Activated carbon is a great medium for water purification.

Say my name · 31-10-2018 2:42pm

ganmo wrote: »

I can’t see any mention of it on the feed materials registrar, until it’s register no miller will put it in a feed

Meanwhile in Austria.

https://www.charline.at/de/futterkohle/futterkohle-fuer-rinder/

Getting closer to Ireland.
Check out the calves option.

(I should be getting a sainthood or something for all this. But when you see a good thing. You'd know it).

Say my name · 31-10-2018 2:58pm

Water John wrote: »

Because of its resilience I thought they hydrolised infected animals.
Activated carbon is a great medium for water purification.

Not qualified to answer the first question.

The second one.
https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/2

alps · 31-10-2018 10:01pm

Say my name wrote: »

Meanwhile in Austria.

https://www.charline.at/de/futterkohle/futterkohle-fuer-rinder/

Getting closer to Ireland.
Check out the calves option.

(I should be getting a sainthood or something for all this. But when you see a good thing. You'd know it).

Similar to mycotixin binders that we have used here. Some are charcoal based and more are just pure clay powder, as in pottery clay.

Say my name · 01-11-2018 12:06pm

peat-biochar at ESHI(DIT)&BordNaMóna (@PeatDit) Tweeted:
At a conference in Belfast organised by Queen's University.
Presenting the project including new results and learning about Irish ecological history. @ESHI_DIT @DrAlanJGilmer @FHEcol18 #FHEcol18 #phdlife https://t.co/xwZINx5dKF https://twitter.com/PeatDit/status/1057933162419011584?s=17

Say my name · 05-11-2018 9:02pm

Interesting factoid.

Cattle fed biochar (ground up charcoal dust).
Sh1t very dark brown to black dung.

And solid.

patsy_mccabe · 05-11-2018 9:15pm

Say my name wrote: »

Interesting factoid.

Cattle fed biochar (ground up charcoal dust).
Sh1t very dark brown to black dung.

Like Guinness................:rolleyes:

Say my name · 05-11-2018 9:21pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Like Guinness................:rolleyes:

Or if you dose a cow with a jar of coffee.

The link to em all is they are all roasted carbon.

Edit: So now you if you've a cow with stomach problems. Ground charcoal or if going for the coffee. The darkest most burnt coffee powder available.

Say my name · 11-11-2018 1:39pm

Mallorca.

https://www.bakeryandsnacks.com/Article/2018/11/09/London-s-Hart-brothers-partner-with-Circle-Carbon-to-produce-organic-produce-using-biochar

timfromtang · 11-11-2018 3:32pm

https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39

tim

in every parish is a man who could weld up one of these, cheap, open source, .........

blue5000 · 11-11-2018 4:19pm

timfromtang wrote: »

https://www.biochar-journal.org/en/ct/39

tim

in every parish is a man who could weld up one of these, cheap, open source, .........

But it's only 15-20 % efficient on a DM basis.

Biochar and natural farming

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