Cattle carcase dis-grading and other persistant annoyances.

KAMG · 08-11-2018 06:29PM #1

Anyone else feel they were hard done by with the conformation grades received on their cattle sent recently?

epfff · 08-11-2018 10:18PM

KAMG wrote: »

Anyone else feel they were hard done by with the conformation grades received on their cattle sent recently?

+1

pat73 · 09-11-2018 12:56AM

KAMG wrote: »

Anyone else feel they were hard done by with the conformation grades received on their cattle sent recently?

I kill alot of fresian bullocks over the year every year,all got good grass and plenty ration.All good square fresians.Every year they would grade o and believe it or not i got the odd r.This year every one of them graded p.Granted the drought didnt help but i would expect a mixture of o and p.I complained to the agent and his words were that the grading machine was gone very mean this year.A Larry Goodman grading machine.Im def not going to be a busy fool next year.

CloughCasey1 · 09-11-2018 01:09AM

pat73 wrote: »

I kill alot of fresian bullocks over the year every year,all got good grass and plenty ration.All good square fresians.Every year they would grade o and believe it or not i got the odd r.This year every one of them graded p.Granted the drought didnt help but i would expect a mixture of o and p.I complained to the agent and his words were that the grading machine was gone very mean this year.A Larry Goodman grading machine.Im def not going to be a busy fool next year.

Had a FR that couldn't fit through the skulling gate earlier in year grade O- at 29mts 25days. Yet a lesser quality comrade at 33mts that had plenty of room going out same gate and less flesh got an O+ and killed out 35kg less. The monkey running the grading computer doesn't recognise anything overage as they dont have the 12c to lose. First thing the beef movement guys should push is calling BS on the grading system as it stands.

Cavanjack · 10-11-2018 12:03AM

epfff wrote: »

+1

Plus 2. U grade bulls are turning into r's. Also there is no consistency. Is the department not supposed to be looking after these?

Bass Reeves · 10-11-2018 12:13AM

Cavanjack wrote: »

Plus 2. U grade bulls are turning into r's. Also there is no consistency. Is the department not supposed to be looking after these?

There is no monitoring of grading. It an open secret that the machines are manuipilated. The dept will do f@@k all about it as they cannot read the code and therefore cannot see what is happening.

We have posted about this a lot over the last 12 months

wrangler · 10-11-2018 08:49AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no monitoring of grading. It an open secret that the machines are manuipilated. The dept will do f@@k all about it as they cannot read the code and therefore cannot see what is happening.

We have posted about this a lot over the last 12 months

Why would they bother manipulating the machines, they'd get the same amount of cattle if they offered 10 -20c/kg less with the same effect.

Willfarman · 10-11-2018 09:56AM

wrangler wrote: »

Why would they bother manipulating the machines, they'd get the same amount of cattle if they offered 10 -20c/kg less with the same effect.

Is this the official stance of the ifa or your own personal notion?

A big herd of pedigree Hereford cattle close to here that the farmer has been improving and monitoring for his lifetime. I finished a few very nice bullocks from the said herd this year. R grade thick square cattle over 700kg at 25 months of age. 3 o- and 2 o=. No appeal or recourse available.

CloughCasey1 · 10-11-2018 11:18AM

wrangler wrote: »

Why would they bother manipulating the machines, they'd get the same amount of cattle if they offered 10 -20c/kg less with the same effect.

You see smoke......usually means fire
It quacks and walks like a duck........usually a duck
Something smells like ****.......sure enough its ****
Talking to a lad that finishes a whole lot more than me that sends different stock to different factories for different reasons
Cull cows go local....good flat price and grading better
Fr or plain dairy cattle go to a bit further......reckons he will get o+ more often on well fed well fleshed bullocks at younger kill under 30mts for fr and around 24 for aax/hex
Anything suckler bred and 440kg DW or above goes elsewhere......grading poor but wont get cut on over heavy cattle.
Now that is a fcuk up of a system if ya ask me.
Its like putting a square peg into a round hole.
Yet when we arrive with a round peg they produce a square hole and swear blind it was the same hole as last week. AS SURE AS NIGHT FOLLOWS DAY SELF REGULATION WILL ALWAYS BE EXPLOITED IN EVERY WALK OF LIFE.

wrangler · 10-11-2018 11:45AM

Willfarman wrote: »

Is this the official stance of the ifa or your own personal notion?

A big herd of pedigree Hereford cattle close to here that the farmer has been improving and monitoring for his lifetime. I finished a few very nice bullocks from the said herd this year. R grade thick square cattle over 700kg at 25 months of age. 3 o- and 2 o=. No appeal or recourse available.

You must be referring to someone else if you think I can't think for myself,
No one seems able or bothered to prove these allegations, Wrong grading in our lambs would always be investigated when it happens and usually put right and it certainly wouldn't be allowed go on ad infinitum

I says · 10-11-2018 12:04PM

wrangler wrote: »

You must be referring to someone else if you think I can't think for myself,
No one seems able or bothered to prove these allegations, Wrong grading in our lambs would always be investigated when it happens and usually put right and it certainly wouldn't be allowed go on ad infinitum

Well the factory in the midlands just off the motorway has had the grading changed 3 times this year my agent hasn’t sent nor will send cattle to it.

wrangler · 10-11-2018 12:24PM

I says wrote: »

Well the factory in the midlands just off the motorway has had the grading changed 3 times this year my agent hasn’t sent nor will send cattle to it.

If that was true you'd think someone would be following it up, sounds a bit iffy to me

Willfarman · 10-11-2018 01:38PM

wrangler wrote: »

You must be referring to someone else if you think I can't think for myself,
No one seems able or bothered to prove these allegations, Wrong grading in our lambs would always be investigated when it happens and usually put right and it certainly wouldn't be allowed go on ad infinitum

No I have the correct poster. The sheep farmer who comes as the knights watch to the wall to defend the ifa in every beef thread!

CloughCasey1 · 10-11-2018 01:43PM

Willfarman wrote: »

No I have the correct poster. The sheep farmer who comes as the knights watch to the wall to defend the ifa in every beef thread!

The 11th commandment
"Thow shall not speak ill of the IFA or any of its cronies" "for theirs is the kingdom of brown envelopes and compitition authority dodging and screwing the peasants into quitting farming and joining the rat race into urban areas every morning, toils of boring paperwork and putting small parts together for these fat cronies when they need pace-makers, stints etc as a result of their ill gotten greed"

wrangler · 10-11-2018 02:03PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

The 11th commandment
"Thow shall not speak ill of the IFA or any of its cronies" "for theirs is the kingdom of brown envelopes and compitition authority dodging and screwing the peasants into quitting farming and joining the rat race into urban areas every morning, toils of boring paperwork and putting small parts together for these fat cronies when they need pace-makers, stints etc as a result of their ill gotten greed"

I'm telling you all to pull your finger out of wherever it happens to be at the moment and do something for yourselves......throwing around insinuations and accusations will get you nowhere and infact is probably turning you into a joke in the factory canteen.
I'm looking forward to yet another organisation fail to handle factories and finally reveal farmers for what they are

riemann · 10-11-2018 02:08PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no monitoring of grading. It an open secret that the machines are manuipilated. The dept will do f@@k all about it as they cannot read the code and therefore cannot see what is happening.

We have posted about this a lot over the last 12 months

That's just absolute nonsense. If you have any proof of this I'd be very interested to read it.

On the other hand, if it's all based on hearsay and anecdotes you'd be better served concentrating on what's under your control as opposed to complaining and moaning.

A cartel doesn't need to manipulate grading machines when they set the price.

Willfarman · 10-11-2018 02:14PM

https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/department-of-agriculture-inspectors-to-monitor-carcase-trim-in-meat-factories-ifa-37034399.html

I had to go looking for this from memory..

TITANIUM. · 10-11-2018 02:33PM

wrangler wrote: »

I'm telling you all to pull your finger out of wherever it happens to be at the moment and do something for yourselves......throwing around insinuations and accusations will get you nowhere and infact is probably turning you into a joke in the factory canteen.
I'm looking forward to yet another organisation fail to handle factories and finally reveal farmers for what they are

Why don't you take a few valum there rangler and keep your blood pressure down. Your beginning to sound like a bitter old man! "reveal farmers for what they are." ??? Really???
Keep your toes up the chimney and leave the farming to the farmers, we don't need broad generalisations from one, Who used to speak for us. Fine job ye did looking at the state were in now. These lads are trying to fix the mess. Get onboard or get out of the way.

wrangler · 10-11-2018 02:34PM

Willfarman wrote: »

No I have the correct poster. The sheep farmer who comes as the knights watch to the wall to defend the ifa in every beef thread!

I'm four years gone from IFA now, not because of Pat smith negotiating a salary for himself and expecting it to be delivered, but because farmers (again) let irregularities happen on their watch.
It's ironic that the person that blew the lid on the whole pile of sh... had to be in on negotiating smiths salary.....you couldn't make it up

charolais0153 · 10-11-2018 02:43PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Why don't you take a few valum there rangler and keep your blood pressure down. Your beginning to sound like a bitter old man! "reveal farmers for what they are." ??? Really???
Keep your toes up the chimney and leave the farming to the farmers, we don't need broad generalisations from one, Who used to speak for us. Fine job ye did looking at the state were in now. These lads are trying to fix the mess. Get onboard or get out of the way.

He not only person to keep bp down.

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

fat cronies when they need pace-makers, stints etc as a result of their ill gotten greed"

"leave the farming to the farmers"
He is retired now but was one of the best sheep farmers in the country.
Believe it or not, ifa dont control whether or not the factories tamper with the machines. They should be regulated by dept.

TITANIUM. · 10-11-2018 02:58PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

He not only person to keep bp down.

"leave the farming to the farmers"
He is retired now but was one of the best sheep farmers in the country.
Believe it or not, ifa dont control whether or not the factories tamper with the machines. They should be regulated by dept.

That's grand, So are we to take it you agree with statements like this,

"I'm looking forward to yet another organisation fail to handle factories and finally reveal farmers for what they are"

Tis some mouthful of scutter to come out of a former farmers mouth if you ask me. Wishing ill on your former colleagues peers and neighbours. Pathetic really!

wrangler · 10-11-2018 03:45PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

That's grand, So are we to take it you agree with statements like this,

"I'm looking forward to yet another organisation fail to handle factories and finally reveal farmers for what they are"

Tis some mouthful of scutter to come out of a former farmers mouth if you ask me. Wishing ill on your former colleagues peers and neighbours. Pathetic really!

You should at least wait to see how this latest effort works out before you refute what I'm saying.
I just hope the organisers are properly supported

Willfarman · 10-11-2018 04:39PM

I kind of see where Rangler is coming from.. a lot of farmers have their eye on the neighbors acre. Anyone in the agri business seems winds up very grouchy after dealing with farmers for a long time.

Penny pinching greed and begrudgery is rife.

TITANIUM. · 10-11-2018 05:25PM

wrangler wrote: »

I just hope the organisers are properly supported

I thought you were looking forward to it failing? Your contradicting yourself.

Times are tough in farming, I'll support them and hope to god they achieve sone level of success. Even if that means the lads who sit on there hands (either through laziness or ignorance) get the same benefit as those who stood up to be counted and put in the work.

wrangler · 10-11-2018 05:36PM

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I thought you were looking forward to it failing? Your contradicting yourself.

Times are tough in farming, I'll support them and hope to god they achieve sone level of success. Even if that means the lads who sit on there hands (either through laziness or ignorance) get the same benefit as those who stood up to be counted and put in the work.

I know where the organisers are at the moment,They cannot be confident of getting the strength of support they need. I also saw the support ICSA got for their last protest so it's not just IFA....Beef forum has also failed,.it doesn't look great.

greysides · 10-11-2018 06:03PM

I split these posts away from the Beef Price thread as I thought it deserved a separate discussion. It also served to corral all the 'argumentative types' into their own area but be aware some modicum of civility is still expected.

Okay, opposite corners and ......

Lest there be any offence taken, the above comments/descriptions are very much tongue-in-cheek.

I have to have a bit of fun the odd time.

coolshannagh28 · 10-11-2018 06:07PM

pat73 wrote: »

I kill alot of fresian bullocks over the year every year,all got good grass and plenty ration.All good square fresians.Every year they would grade o and believe it or not i got the odd r.This year every one of them graded p.Granted the drought didnt help but i would expect a mixture of o and p.I complained to the agent and his words were that the grading machine was gone very mean this year.A Larry Goodman grading machine.Im def not going to be a busy fool next year.

John Heney

patsy_mccabe · 10-11-2018 06:16PM

I remember in the old days when we killed cattle here, I could nearly always get the grade right on them. When experienced guys say there's something wrong now, I'd be inclined to listen to them.

Bass Reeves · 10-11-2018 06:30PM

wrangler wrote: »

Why would they bother manipulating the machines, they'd get the same amount of cattle if they offered 10 -20c/kg less with the same effect.

Why do plants over trim carcasses. For a few reasons it gives old fart an excuse to blame the younger and part time farmers. The truth is it gives them competitive advantage. It also allows them to boast that they are paying a fair price even if grading is screwing the system. I know one or two factory's were at having breed bonus killing days. A few lads started sending there Herefords and AA bullocks on normal days because of the grading. It allows them to access prime beef at cow price at times while seeming to be paying a top cow price

riemann wrote: »

That's just absolute nonsense. If you have any proof of this I'd be very interested to read it.

On the other hand, if it's all based on hearsay and anecdotes you'd be better served concentrating on what's under your control as opposed to complaining and moaning.

A cartel doesn't need to manipulate grading machines when they set the price.

Was it in the late noughties that the Dawn plant I think in Waterford was caught with there fingers in the till.

Mooooo · 10-11-2018 08:47PM

Said it before here, cow's that a couple years ago would have made o are all p now.

Aravo · 10-11-2018 10:29PM

Had something similar with a lamb recently. Only payed for half a lamb. Rest not used. Queried it as the info provided was lacking and then they provided a letter signed by a vet. But the vet had such poor writing you could not tell who signed it (local vets, so it's likely I may know them) and the description for discarding was very poor. In such circumstances should the lamb be kept to one side for a few days so farmer can inspect same.

Cattle carcase dis-grading and other persistant annoyances.

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