Absolutely tormented by pub noise

JigglyMcJabs · 10-11-2018 12:31am #1

I've lived in an apartment block next to a pub for more than 4 years, over the last year the pub has started to have live acts. It must be working for them because now there is live music every Friday and Saturday night until 12.30 and most Sundays until 11am.

Its not exactly loud, if you put a decibel meter in my living room it's not going to show much, but there is still a constant low level bass for several hours each day at the weekend. I should point out that this is a lical neighbourhood pub.

I've complained several times, even called the local garda station when the music runs passed 12.30.

What's the most effective course of action and how do I find out if they're licensed to play music? If they do have a license, are there times and days specified?

I'd appreciate any advice

Eircom_Sucks · 10-11-2018 12:34am

JigglyMcJabs wrote: »

I've lived in an apartment block next to a pub for more than 4 years, over the last year the pub has started to have live acts. It must be working for them because now there is live music every Friday and Saturday night until 12.30 and most Sundays until 11am.

Its not exactly loud, if you put a decibel meter in my living room it's not going to show much, but there is still a constant low level bass for several hours each day at the weekend. I should point out that this is a lical neighbourhood pub.

I've complained several times, even called the local garda station when the music runs passed 12.30.

What's the most effective course of action and how do I find out if they're licensed to play music? If they do have a license, are there times and days specified?

I'd appreciate any advice

Move

What do you expect living next to a pub

Entitled to do what they like if they have a license

Pauliedragon · 10-11-2018 12:44am

JigglyMcJabs wrote: »

I've lived in an apartment block next to a pub for more than 4 years, over the last year the pub has started to have live acts. It must be working for them because now there is live music every Friday and Saturday night until 12.30 and most Sundays until 11am.

Its not exactly loud, if you put a decibel meter in my living room it's not going to show much, but there is still a constant low level bass for several hours each day at the weekend. I should point out that this is a lical neighbourhood pub.

I've complained several times, even called the local garda station when the music runs passed 12.30.

What's the most effective course of action and how do I find out if they're licensed to play music? If they do have a license, are there times and days specified?

I'd appreciate any advice

I could be wrong but the only way the guards can get involved is if the pub is breaching it's license which in my experience they don't really care about. My local opens at about 10am every Sunday and the cops don't care. With the noise I'd contact the council or I've heard the EPA are taking control of noise complaints a lot more these days.

boombang · 10-11-2018 12:44am

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Move

What do you expect living next to a pub

Entitled to do what they like if they have a license

Bit harsh given there has been a change in noise since the OP moved in. Not like finding a new place is a walk in the park.

JigglyMcJabs · 10-11-2018 12:48am

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Move

What do you expect living next to a pub

Entitled to do what they like if they have a license

Yeah, helpful, thanks for that. I was here long before they decided to play live music and serve after hours. Also, in case you've been out of the loop for a while, it's not exactly easy to find somewhere to rent at the moment.

What do I expect? I expect a licenced premises to operate without being a nuisance to its neighbours, licensed to do what they like? Bollix, get back under your rock.

Peter Denham · 10-11-2018 12:51am

JigglyMcJabs wrote: »

Yeah, helpful, thanks for that. I was here long before they decided to play live music and serve after hours. Also, in case you've been out of the loop for a while, it's not exactly easy to find somewhere to rent at the moment.

What do I expect? I expect a licenced premises to operate without being a nuisance to its neighbours, licensed to do what they like? Bollix, get back under your rock.

You're not in D20 by any chance? Being driven insane as we speak .

JigglyMcJabs · 10-11-2018 12:57am

Peter Denham wrote: »

You're not in D20 by any chance? Being driven insane as we speak .

No, Harolds Cross Road

Gimme A Pound · 10-11-2018 1:18am

I know the other poster worded their response unhelpfully but I think they're right. As a bar, are they doing anything wrong? It sounds like standard fare for weekend nights. I know it's a nuisance - I've been in the exact same boat (well it was worse as it wasn't just weekend nights and the noise lasted til a good bit later) but I really don't think there's anything you can do if you remain living there. It's city living unfortunately.

I moved - best decision ever.

Mrs OBumble · 10-11-2018 2:24am

JigglyMcJabs wrote: »

I've lived in an apartment block next to a pub for more than 4 years, over the last year the pub has started to have live acts. It must be working for them because now there is live music every Friday and Saturday night until 12.30 and most Sundays until 11am.

Those hours are within licensing times (assumong you mean 11pm). Nothing wrong there.

You can check their planning permission to see if there were any special conditions attached. If so, complain to the councils enforcement division.

But really, if it's just a loe level noise, i think you need to build a bridge ....

nice_guy80 · 10-11-2018 10:57am

Find out when they renew their pub licence and object to it
Prompt closing might be included in the terms of renewal

CiarraiAbu2 · 10-11-2018 11:39am

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Find out when they renew their pub licence and object to it
Prompt closing might be included in the terms of renewal

Objecting to What, he stated himself that the noise stops at 12.30 on Friday and Saturday which are pub closing times and 11.00 on Sunday which is also correct.

Bigus · 10-11-2018 12:13pm

Ask for an appointment with the local Garda licencesing inspector/ sergeant/ superintendent, there's a specific Garda in each area assigned to this duty ( he may cover multiple Garda stations). No point in talking to an ordinary Garda.

Eircom_Sucks · 10-11-2018 12:46pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Find out when they renew their pub licence and object to it
Prompt closing might be included in the terms of renewal

Or just move out and stop whinging ? After all op did move in before this rental shortage , pub is providing local business and jobs so why try affect that ?

BrianBoru00 · 10-11-2018 12:51pm

Bigus wrote: »

Ask for an appointment with the local Garda licencesing inspector/ sergeant/ superintendent, there's a specific Garda in each area assigned to this duty ( he may cover multiple Garda stations). No
point in talking to an ordinary Garda.

An appointment for what exactly ? OP has not identified anything illegal so why would you waste garda time and resources?
Basically the OP is complaining about a pub being a pub.

Cyrus · 10-11-2018 12:53pm

Get a white noise machine for your bedroom?

boombang · 10-11-2018 1:01pm

Have you spoken to your neighbours?

southstar · 10-11-2018 1:16pm

It's maddening that some pubs feel they have no responsibility to neighbours.. surely the onus should be on them to properly insulate their premises but it seems that money talks and feck the rest or us. I'd get a kango Hanmer and give it a good blast every day and see how much their clientele appreciated it.. How are your neighbours affected.

Bigus · 10-11-2018 1:33pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

An appointment for what exactly ? OP has not identified anything illegal so why would you waste garda time and resources?
Basically the OP is complaining about a pub being a pub.

An appointment to discuss the change in use of the pub and it's specific licence and whether live music is allowed under its current license and what time it has to cease same.
The licensing inspector is there for this very purpose, and will have a handle on all pubs and complaints in the area , he attends all the annual licensing court hearings to voice any objections to the renewal of pub licenses. Therefore he has very very powerful powers of persuasion to publicans in his area, who if they don't listen to him will have a hard time in September renewal time.
So if the Garda agrees with the resident he will act.

The Garda are not just there for murder cases , in fact Garda Siochana means guardians of the peace.

Sleeper12 · 10-11-2018 1:36pm

If you are a home owner you could invest in better windows in the rooms you sleep in. Triple glazing or sound proofing windows.

JustJoe7240 · 10-11-2018 1:39pm

southstar wrote: »

It's maddening that some pubs feel they have no responsibility to neighbours.. surely the onus should be on them to properly insulate their premises but it seems that money talks and feck the rest or us. I'd get a kango Hanmer and give it a good blast every day and see how much their clientele appreciated it.. How are your neighbours affected.

Gotta love boards.ie, User starts thread about a noise complaint. User suggests wrecking their own gaff with a jackhammer.... That'll show them!

White noise has been great for me in a similar situation, lots of apps for it. Just be wary of dodgey permissions, a white noise app doesn't need access to your photos, contacts etc.

boombang · 10-11-2018 1:39pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Get a white noise machine for your bedroom?

That's a good suggestion. You can just try 8 hours of white noise on YouTube through your phone. I'm not sure how effective white noise is for masking base tones though.

jasper100 · 10-11-2018 1:41pm

Bigus wrote: »

An appointment to discuss the change in use of the pub and it's specific licence and whether live music is allowed under its current license and what time it has to cease same.
The licensing inspector is there for this very purpose, and will have a handle on all pubs and complaints in the area , he attends all the annual licensing court hearings to voice any objections to the renewal of pub licenses. Therefore he has very very powerful powers of persuasion to publicans in his area, who if they don't listen to him will have a hard time in September renewal time.
So if the Garda agrees with the resident he will act.

The Garda are not just there for murder cases , in fact Garda Siochana means guardians of the peace.

All of the above sounds like pure nonsense.

The op needs to speak to his solicitor and try negotiate a solution with the pub, if that fails then object to the license renewal which is next september.

Jack Moore · 10-11-2018 1:42pm

Bigus wrote: »

An appointment to discuss the change in use of the pub and it's specific licence and whether live music is allowed under its current license and what time it has to cease same.
The licensing inspector is there for this very purpose, and will have a handle on all pubs and complaints in the area , he attends all the annual licensing court hearings to voice any objections to the renewal of pub licenses. Therefore he has very very powerful powers of persuasion to publicans in his area, who if they don't listen to him will have a hard time in September renewal time.
So if the Garda agrees with the resident he will act.

The Garda are not just there for murder cases , in fact Garda Siochana means guardians of the peace.

A pub on Harold’s cross road that is playing music unti 12-30?
Are you familiar with the area?

AndrewJRenko · 10-11-2018 1:44pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you are a home owner you could invest in better windows in the rooms you sleep in. Triple glazing or sound proofing windows.

Even an owner would probably not be allowed by the management company to do major works like this

Sleeper12 · 10-11-2018 1:52pm

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Even an owner would probably not be allowed by the management company to do major works like this

Major works? It's replacing double glazed window for triple glazing. What do you suppose happens if someone broke a window by mistake? It would be replaced of course.

Bigus · 10-11-2018 2:18pm

jasper100 wrote: »

All of the above sounds like pure nonsense.

The op needs to speak to his solicitor and try negotiate a solution with the pub, if that fails then object to the license renewal which is next september.

A solicitor cost money , meeting the Garda costs nothing and is quicker, the pub will listen to the Garda suggestions immediately if the Garda agrees with the residents (op) objection/ nuisance.

This is far from nonsense and happens every week all over the city. Garda have huge influence on pub behaviour, more so in residential areas.

AndrewJRenko · 10-11-2018 2:26pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Major works? It's replacing double glazed window for triple glazing. What do you suppose happens if someone broke a window by mistake? It would be replaced of course.

It depends on the conditions of the lease. The tenant would certainly need to check with the management company, who probably don't want different types of windows in each apartment.

Gimme A Pound · 10-11-2018 2:28pm

One of the pubs where I used to live had a sign up saying "Please respect residents" aimed at the patrons' ****ing stampede that would occur afterwards, and the beeping by taxi drivers picking people up. Like that worked!

But in my opinion, if it's bass vibrations until 12.30 Friday/Saturday night, and 11pm Sunday night, and there's no lock-in, and no people having a riot outside afterwards (on week nights too) it's grand tbh. Best you could hope for living near a pub in Dublin city.

southstar · 10-11-2018 2:28pm

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Gotta love boards.ie, User starts thread about a noise complaint. User suggests wrecking their own gaff with a jackhammer.... That'll show them!

White noise has been great for me in a similar situation, lots of apps for it. Just be wary of dodgey permissions, a white noise app doesn't need access to your photos, contacts etc.

OK the kango hammer is OTT.. A recorded one perhaps.. Or Barbie Girl on a loop.. Seriously though this noise from pub can be seriously infuriating.. found out that pub below me only had permission to have tables out on street until 8pm.. after months of enduring a godawful racket till 2/3 am in the morning...they have no smoking facilities other than this so owner suddenly became quite approachable when this was pointed out to him. So reasonable all of a sudden.
By the way what does this white noise gadget do

Crazyivan 1979 · 10-11-2018 2:32pm

I have quite a bit of experience of this type of issue (acoustic consultant). More often than not these situatuions end up in court, if you have the means to pursue it that is.

If you want to go down this route, judges prefer that you have exhausted all others avenues e.g. Try to resolve the issue by taking to the pub owner, then making a complaint to the environmental section of the council if the former does not resolve it.

The council may help or may do absolutley nothing! Plenty of clients of mine have had this experience.

A noise survey is advisable if you go to court, using the entertaining music breakout method (EMB).

Mrs OBumble · 10-11-2018 2:35pm

southstar wrote: »

Seriously though this noise from pub can be seriously infuriating..

But as the OP says

if you put a decibel meter in my living room it's not going to show much, but there is still a constant low level bass for several hours each day

This isn't serious infuriation, it's just snowflakery.

Check the planning. If you don't find anything wrong, then most. Either they were there first, or they got permission to do what they're doing any you didn't object.

Graniteville · 10-11-2018 2:43pm

Nothing whatsoever to do with the Gardai. So ignore that advice.

Local Council, EPA or objection to license are the options.

Council - check the planning files and see what special conditions were attached. It is quite possible that live music is restricted especially if the pub was built at similar time or after the apartments.

EPA - make a noise complaint http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html#l4a9c0

Objection - keep a diary, at license renewal time (end Sept) make an objection. The court can apply restrictions.

AndrewJRenko · 10-11-2018 2:44pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Check the planning. If you don't find anything wrong, then most. Either they were there first, or they got permission to do what they're doing any you didn't object.

It's more than just planning - it is a pub licensing issue.

OP should check if they have a public music license;

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/da60356593be5de78025763c004fbf04?OpenDocument

And have they been licensed by Revenue;

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-licensing/theatre-licence/music-and-singing-licence.aspx

And if they have a licence from IMRO and also PPI;

http://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence

It would be helpful to have all this info before you have a chat with the pub manager.

Sleeper12 · 10-11-2018 2:44pm

AndrewJRenko wrote:

It depends on the conditions of the lease. The tenant would certainly need to check with the management company, who probably don't want different types of windows in each apartment.

It's the glass that you change. Window frames stay the same. They would look exactly like every other window in the building

Graham · 10-11-2018 2:46pm

There's a section on Citizens Information regarding noise nuisance:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

Read the section "Noise from commercial premises, processes or works" which briefly mentions pubs.

jasper100 · 10-11-2018 2:46pm

Bigus wrote: »

A solicitor cost money , meeting the Garda costs nothing and is quicker, the pub will listen to the Garda suggestions immediately if the Garda agrees with the residents (op) objection/ nuisance.

This is far from nonsense and happens every week all over the city. Garda have huge influence on pub behaviour, more so in residential areas.

The only way a renewal goes before a judge in september is if there is an objection lodged formally to the court. If the guards object it will be because of a major issue like drugs, organised crime etc.

In this instance the only person with an issue is the OP, he can lodge an objection in his own name.

AndrewJRenko · 10-11-2018 2:48pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's the glass that you change. Window frames stay the same. They would look exactly like every other window in the building

It depends on the frame. Many older uPVC frames for double-glazing are too thin to take triple glazing.

Sleeper12 · 10-11-2018 2:56pm

AndrewJRenko wrote:

It depends on the frame. Many older uPVC frames for double-glazing are too thin to take triple glazing.

You can get triple glazed glass the same thickness as double glazed. There is also double glazed glass designed for sound proofing. Some of these have better soundproofing than triple glazed

jasper100 · 10-11-2018 2:57pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's more than just planning - it is a pub licensing issue.

OP should check if they have a public music license;

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/da60356593be5de78025763c004fbf04?OpenDocument

And have they been licensed by Revenue;

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-licensing/theatre-licence/music-and-singing-licence.aspx

And if they have a licence from IMRO and also PPI;

http://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence

It would be helpful to have all this info before you have a chat with the pub manager.

One of your links is for a theatre licence. Pubs dont need such licence to play live music.

An imro licence or lack of, wont help the op. If there is no imro licence and he complains the pub will just pay for one and keep on playing music.

Uncharted · 10-11-2018 3:07pm

Take your pick OP.

1. Approach the pub owner,try find a solution.

2. Suck it up,and deal with it.

3. Complain left,right and centre to gardai.

4. Invest in soundproofing.

5. Move elsewhere.

Gimme A Pound · 10-11-2018 3:20pm

I'd be very surprised if the pub was found in breach of anything - no lock-ins, no extreme noise (just standard pub stuff on weekend nights).

AndrewJRenko · 10-11-2018 4:08pm

jasper100 wrote: »

An imro licence or lack of, wont help the op. If there is no imro licence and he complains the pub will just pay for one and keep on playing music.

It is leverage.

Yeah, the pub might just decide to pay for the backdated licence.

Or they might decide that the cost of said licence makes the music night not viable financially.

Bigus · 10-11-2018 4:43pm

Graniteville wrote: »

Nothing whatsoever to do with the Gardai. So ignore that advice.

Local Council, EPA or objection to license are the options.

Council - check the planning files and see what special conditions were attached. It is quite possible that live music is restricted especially if the pub was built at similar time or after the apartments.

EPA - make a noise complaint http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html#l4a9c0

Objection - keep a diary, at license renewal time (end Sept) make an objection. The court can apply restrictions.

I personally know a publican who was approached by the gardai in the first instance in exactly the same circumstances, over music noise complaints from neighbours. It was also a new addition to this pub .
The gardai let it be known to the publican that it would be very much in his interest to do all possible to placate the residents or face the consequences in the licensing court. He engaged a sound engineer to advise on physical modifications, which he carried out but this didn't work and he had to revert back to no late music.

Graniteville · 10-11-2018 4:57pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It is leverage.

Yeah, the pub might just decide to pay for the backdated licence.

Or they might decide that the cost of said licence makes the music night not viable financially.

Threatening to squeal on them to a place like imro is utter pettiness and will simply antagonize them.

Imro license has nothing to do with noise levels or the pub licence.

You can also be fairly sure imro license is paid as imro are fairly on the ball when it comes to pubs.

Graniteville · 10-11-2018 5:00pm

Bigus wrote: »

I personally know a publican who was approached by the gardai in the first instance in exactly the same circumstances, over music noise complaints from neighbours. It was also a new addition to this pub .
The gardai let it be known to the publican that it would be very much in his interest to do all possible to placate the residents or face the consequences in the licensing court. He engaged a sound engineer to advise on physical modifications, which he carried out but this didn't work and he had to revert back to no late music.

The op can certainly ask the Gardai to assist, but there's nothing specific the Gardai can really do. So it's asking the Gardai to act as a mediator which many Gardai will do for a citizen.

The op would have to approach it in the right manner and it may be a good first call.

jasper100 · 10-11-2018 5:09pm

Bigus wrote: »

I personally know a publican who was approached by the gardai in the first instance in exactly the same circumstances, over music noise complaints from neighbours. It was also a new addition to this pub .
The gardai let it be known to the publican that it would be very much in his interest to do all possible to placate the residents or face the consequences in the licensing court. He engaged a sound engineer to advise on physical modifications, which he carried out but this didn't work and he had to revert back to no late music.

Did a judge order that he had to stop playing music? Who made the objection to the court, the residents or the guards?

Bigus · 10-11-2018 6:38pm

jasper100 wrote: »

Did a judge order that he had to stop playing music? Who made the objection to the court, the residents or the guards?

It didn't get to court,The Garda let it be known that if matters weren't resolved they would be objecting to the license, this was in Dublin suburbs but well built up area on a main artery regional road, pub was well run and not full of skangers either. Publican wasn't prepared to push the matter as it had a large trade apart from music nights.

Mrs OBumble · 10-11-2018 6:43pm

Bigus wrote: »

I.... he had to revert back to no late music.

However in this case there is no late musuc: everything is within normal licensing laws.

rom · 10-11-2018 7:05pm

Bose QC 35 changed my life.

Sleeper12 · 10-11-2018 7:09pm

rom wrote:

Bose QC 35 changed my life.

I've been thinking about buying these over the last week. I know that there are better options for sound quality from music but was wondering if the noise cancelling is as good as they say?

Bigus · 10-11-2018 7:17pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

However in this case there is no late musuc: everything is within normal licensing laws.

Later than 11

Absolutely tormented by pub noise

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