Absolutely tormented by pub noise

Graniteville

Nothing whatsoever to do with the Gardai. So ignore that advice.

Local Council, EPA or objection to license are the options.


Council - check the planning files and see what special conditions were attached. It is quite possible that live music is restricted especially if the pub was built at similar time or after the apartments.

EPA - make a noise complaint http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html#l4a9c0

Objection - keep a diary, at license renewal time (end Sept) make an objection. The court can apply restrictions.

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Check the planning. If you don't find anything wrong, then most. Either they were there first, or they got permission to do what they're doing any you didn't object.

It's more than just planning - it is a pub licensing issue.


OP should check if they have a public music license;


http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/da60356593be5de78025763c004fbf04?OpenDocument


And have they been licensed by Revenue;


https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-licensing/theatre-licence/music-and-singing-licence.aspx


And if they have a licence from IMRO and also PPI;


http://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence


It would be helpful to have all this info before you have a chat with the pub manager.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

It depends on the conditions of the lease. The tenant would certainly need to check with the management company, who probably don't want different types of windows in each apartment.

It's the glass that you change. Window frames stay the same. They would look exactly like every other window in the building

Graham

There's a section on Citizens Information regarding noise nuisance:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

Read the section "Noise from commercial premises, processes or works" which briefly mentions pubs.

jasper100

Bigus wrote: »

A solicitor cost money , meeting the Garda costs nothing and is quicker, the pub will listen to the Garda suggestions immediately if the Garda agrees with the residents (op) objection/ nuisance.

This is far from nonsense and happens every week all over the city. Garda have huge influence on pub behaviour, more so in residential areas.

The only way a renewal goes before a judge in september is if there is an objection lodged formally to the court. If the guards object it will be because of a major issue like drugs, organised crime etc.

In this instance the only person with an issue is the OP, he can lodge an objection in his own name.

AndrewJRenko

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's the glass that you change. Window frames stay the same. They would look exactly like every other window in the building

It depends on the frame. Many older uPVC frames for double-glazing are too thin to take triple glazing.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

It depends on the frame. Many older uPVC frames for double-glazing are too thin to take triple glazing.

You can get triple glazed glass the same thickness as double glazed. There is also double glazed glass designed for sound proofing. Some of these have better soundproofing than triple glazed

jasper100

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's more than just planning - it is a pub licensing issue.


OP should check if they have a public music license;


http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/da60356593be5de78025763c004fbf04?OpenDocument


And have they been licensed by Revenue;


https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-licensing/theatre-licence/music-and-singing-licence.aspx


And if they have a licence from IMRO and also PPI;


http://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence


It would be helpful to have all this info before you have a chat with the pub manager.

One of your links is for a theatre licence. Pubs dont need such licence to play live music.

An imro licence or lack of, wont help the op. If there is no imro licence and he complains the pub will just pay for one and keep on playing music.

Uncharted

Take your pick OP.

1. Approach the pub owner,try find a solution.

2. Suck it up,and deal with it.

3. Complain left,right and centre to gardai.

4. Invest in soundproofing.

5. Move elsewhere.

Gimme A Pound

I'd be very surprised if the pub was found in breach of anything - no lock-ins, no extreme noise (just standard pub stuff on weekend nights).

AndrewJRenko

jasper100 wrote: »

An imro licence or lack of, wont help the op. If there is no imro licence and he complains the pub will just pay for one and keep on playing music.

It is leverage.

Yeah, the pub might just decide to pay for the backdated licence.

Or they might decide that the cost of said licence makes the music night not viable financially.

Bigus

Graniteville wrote: »

Nothing whatsoever to do with the Gardai. So ignore that advice.

Local Council, EPA or objection to license are the options.


Council - check the planning files and see what special conditions were attached. It is quite possible that live music is restricted especially if the pub was built at similar time or after the apartments.

EPA - make a noise complaint http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html#l4a9c0

Objection - keep a diary, at license renewal time (end Sept) make an objection. The court can apply restrictions.

I personally know a publican who was approached by the gardai in the first instance in exactly the same circumstances, over music noise complaints from neighbours. It was also a new addition to this pub .
The gardai let it be known to the publican that it would be very much in his interest to do all possible to placate the residents or face the consequences in the licensing court. He engaged a sound engineer to advise on physical modifications, which he carried out but this didn't work and he had to revert back to no late music.

Graniteville

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It is leverage.

Yeah, the pub might just decide to pay for the backdated licence.

Or they might decide that the cost of said licence makes the music night not viable financially.

Threatening to squeal on them to a place like imro is utter pettiness and will simply antagonize them.

Imro license has nothing to do with noise levels or the pub licence.

You can also be fairly sure imro license is paid as imro are fairly on the ball when it comes to pubs.

Graniteville

Bigus wrote: »

I personally know a publican who was approached by the gardai in the first instance in exactly the same circumstances, over music noise complaints from neighbours. It was also a new addition to this pub .
The gardai let it be known to the publican that it would be very much in his interest to do all possible to placate the residents or face the consequences in the licensing court. He engaged a sound engineer to advise on physical modifications, which he carried out but this didn't work and he had to revert back to no late music.

The op can certainly ask the Gardai to assist, but there's nothing specific the Gardai can really do. So it's asking the Gardai to act as a mediator which many Gardai will do for a citizen.

The op would have to approach it in the right manner and it may be a good first call.

jasper100

Bigus wrote: »

I personally know a publican who was approached by the gardai in the first instance in exactly the same circumstances, over music noise complaints from neighbours. It was also a new addition to this pub .
The gardai let it be known to the publican that it would be very much in his interest to do all possible to placate the residents or face the consequences in the licensing court. He engaged a sound engineer to advise on physical modifications, which he carried out but this didn't work and he had to revert back to no late music.

Did a judge order that he had to stop playing music? Who made the objection to the court, the residents or the guards?

Bigus

jasper100 wrote: »

Did a judge order that he had to stop playing music? Who made the objection to the court, the residents or the guards?

It didn't get to court,The Garda let it be known that if matters weren't resolved they would be objecting to the license, this was in Dublin suburbs but well built up area on a main artery regional road, pub was well run and not full of skangers either. Publican wasn't prepared to push the matter as it had a large trade apart from music nights.

Mrs OBumble

Bigus wrote: »

I.... he had to revert back to no late music.

However in this case there is no late musuc: everything is within normal licensing laws.

rom

Bose QC 35 changed my life.

Sleeper12

rom wrote:

Bose QC 35 changed my life.

I've been thinking about buying these over the last week. I know that there are better options for sound quality from music but was wondering if the noise cancelling is as good as they say?

Bigus

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

However in this case there is no late musuc: everything is within normal licensing laws.

Later than 11

gctest50

JigglyMcJabs wrote: »

I've lived in an apartment block next to a pub for more than 4 years, over the last year the pub has started to have live acts. It must be working for them because now there is live music every Friday and Saturday night until 12.30 and most Sundays until 11am.

Its not exactly loud, if you put a decibel meter in my living room it's not going to show much, but there is still a constant low level bass for several hours each day at the weekend. I should point out that this is a lical neighbourhood pub.

I've complained several times, even called the local garda station when the music runs passed 12.30.

What's the most effective course of action and how do I find out if they're licensed to play music? If they do have a license, are there times and days specified?

I'd appreciate any advice

It's not actuallt noisy at all, is it ? :

JigglyMcJabs wrote: »

......

Its not exactly loud, if you put a decibel meter in my living room it's not going to show much,

jasper100

Bigus wrote: »

It didn't get to court,The Garda let it be known that if matters weren't resolved they would be objecting to the license, this was in Dublin suburbs but well built up area on a main artery regional road, pub was well run and not full of skangers either. Publican wasn't prepared to push the matter as it had a large trade apart from music nights.

Why would the guards object?

Its the residents who have the problem, they would need to object.

Bigus

jasper100 wrote: »

Why would the guards object?

Its the residents who have the problem, they would need to object.

I'm just reporting the facts as happened, however I also know the gardai are very pro active as to how pubs are run in their patch. This is why they have a designated licensing inspector or sergeant in each district.

BrianBoru00

Bigus wrote: »

An appointment to discuss the change in use of the pub and it's specific licence and whether live music is allowed under its current license and what time it has to cease same.
The licensing inspector is there for this very purpose, and will have a handle on all pubs and complaints in the area , he attends all the annual licensing court hearings to voice any objections to the renewal of pub licenses. Therefore he has very very powerful powers of persuasion to publicans in his area, who if they don't listen to him will have a hard time in September renewal time.
So if the Garda agrees with the resident he will act.

The Garda are not just there for murder cases , in fact Garda Siochana means guardians of the peace.

Your plucking your "facts" out of your rear end.
There is no SPECIFIC licence required to host live music within normal opening hours.

The "source" you quoted was also talking rubbish or the full story is not being told. If I was running my pub within the laws and a garda made such a warning to me I d be getting straight on to his sergeant or inspector or superintendent and making an official complaint and so looking for any documentation as to why they could object to me.

Also there is no sergeant/ inspector /super looking carefully at every licence renewal . They will look at ones where there have been ongoing anti social issues.
Maybe you could start giving links to any relevant legislation you think may apply.

But as OP said. It would not register too highly on a decibel scale and they haven t said it contravenes regular pub opening hours

decky1

we've a pub in our town and the noise inside it is inhuman they don't do music just the people talking, don't know how it was built but it holds the noise inside can be very annoying.

Bigus

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Your plucking your "facts" out of your rear end.
There is no SPECIFIC licence required to host live music within normal opening hours.

The "source" you quoted was also talking rubbish or the full story is not being told. If I was running my pub within the laws and a garda made such a warning to me I d be getting straight on to his sergeant or inspector or superintendent and making an official complaint and so looking for any documentation as to why they could object to me.

Also there is no sergeant/ inspector /super looking carefully at every licence renewal . They will look at ones where there have been ongoing anti social issues.
Maybe you could start giving links to any relevant legislation you think may apply.

But as OP said. It would not register too highly on a decibel scale and they haven t said it contravenes regular pub opening hours

I was at all times referring to publicans licence , and never mentioned anything at all about a special music licence .
However a separate dance licence is required for certain uses , but I'm sure you know all about these, their limitations and entitlements.
Also in certain cases an additional restaurant licence can allow a publican with an ordinary licence to open later, some pubs have all three licences ,and all night clubs used to need all three.
However compliance with all licenses is enforced By the guards, and because pub licensing is so complicated, varied and historical, a specific Garda is responsible in each district.

BrianBoru00

Bigus wrote: »

I was at all times referring to publicans licence , and never mentioned anything at all about a special music licence .

Which emphasises the point that you know very little about licencing laws so shouldn't be suggesting the OP wastes a gardas time. Again - NOTHING ILLEGAL has been outlined in the OP.

Bigus wrote: »

However a separate dance licence is required for certain uses , but I'm sure you know all about these, their limitations and entitlements.
Also in certain cases an additional restaurant licence can allow a publican with an ordinary licence to open later, some pubs have all three licences ,and all night clubs used to need all three.

Which is irrelevant to this discussion.

Bigus wrote: »

However compliance with all licenses is enforced By the guards, and because pub licensing is so complicated, varied and historical, a specific Garda is responsible in each district.

They may be officially responsible but its very very far from being their sole responsibility. And in Dublin I'd be pretty confident it'd not even be on the radar given the crime epidemic in the capital.

hullaballoo

There's a huge difference between illegal and unlawful.

The pub might well be 100% compliant with licences and rules and regs etc., but that doesn't mean they are not acting in an unlawful manner towards their neighbours.

The relevant area of law is private nuisance. It may be possible for the op to obtain orders restricting the pub from doing what it's currently doing, but advising in relation to that is something that's strictly and solely within the competence of appropriate legal professionals, solicitors and counsel who are experts in this particular field.

Graniteville

Bigus wrote: »

Later than 11

Standard pub hours on Friday and Saturday are to 00.30am + 30min drinking up time.

southstar

Graniteville wrote: »

Standard pub hours on Friday and Saturday are to 00.30am + 30min drinking up time.

So like I said... feck the neighbours...? Is it any wonder that these situations escalate..
or why my neighbours and I had considered using the flat directly over the pub to play back equally irritating noise through their roof during lunch service or in competition with their live music acts. Crazy I agree but we had being living peacefully enough before this new owner arrived. And believe me as a city centre dweller my threshold for noise was well above average.. I suspect that onus would be on pub to soundproof if this issue arise in the US foe example