Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

everlast75 · 08-11-2018 06:26PM

The acting AG has said he will not recuse himself.

He has stated on the record Mueller's investigation has gone too far.

He has said that Sessions' dealings with Russia were just chats.

Reminds me of why Trump picked Kavanaugh- his writings on why the President shouldn't be indicted while sitting.

And still, his fans don't see the issue here.

It reminds me of a cat and its owner. The cat keeps nudging a glass towards the edge of the table. Each nudge, its owner says, "he hasn't knocked the glass off yet, there's no need to intervene". Anyone can see its intention.

Nudge after nudge gets the glass closer and closer... until the glass falls off and smashes.

By then, its too f'n late.

Jolly Red Giant · 08-11-2018 06:45PM

In many respects the mid-terms were more notable for some of the propositions - rather than the Congressional and governor results. While some left and progressive candidates were elected - including a significant number of Democratic Socialist Alliance members at state level - the propositions provide more of a weather barometer as to the prevailing mood in the US – particularly in some so-called ‘red’ states.

E.g.
- Missouri (62%) to raise the minimum wage from $7.85 to $12 per hour - a measure that will benefit almost 700,000 workers in the state. Missouri also rejected “right to work” legislation designed to force people off welfare. It is worth noting that is is the state where the Democrats expected ultra conservative corporate Democrat Claire McCaskill to hold a Senate seat - yet while voters supported progressive measures, they rejected McCaskill.

- Arkansas (65%) voted to raise the minimum wage from $8.50 to $11 per hour. Arkansas is one of the poorest states in the USA with a median wage of $14.50 an hour.

- Idaho (67%), Nebraska, Montana (53%) and Utah (54%) all voted to expand Medicaid.

- Florida (65%) voters restored voting rights to 1.4 million (about 10% of voters) residents convicted of a felony who served their time.

- San Francisco (60%) passed a corporate tax that will raise $300million a year to aid the homeless and fund mental health services. This was similar to the measure promoted by Socialist Alternative in Seattle where a public campaign forced the city council to implement a 'head tax' designed to raise $500million a year to fund social housing - only for Amazon's Jeff Bezos and Starbucks to launch a national propaganda campaign (backed by Fox News) attacking Seattle's Socialist city councilwoman Kshama Sawant and Socialist Alternative and threatening all kinds of economic catastrophe - resulting in the Democrats on the city council to capitulate. SF's campaign benefited from Seattle's previous efforts to generate funds for housing for the poor.

Washington (63%) voted to restrict the rights of police officers to use deadly force and compel all officers to undergo extensive training on 'de-escalation', mental health and first aid.

A host of states voted to decriminalise the use of marijuana for medical and/or recreational use. A large number of states passed measures to inhibit gerrymandering and voter suppression and Massachusetts (69%) voted on measures to protect LGBT rights.

Even some of the defeats had significant votes - in Ohio 37% of people voted to reduce drug possession to a misdomeanour and that the savings were to be ring-fenced for rehab services. A m easure opposed by both Republicans and Democrats. California 39% of people voted state-wide rent control measure - corporate landlords spent over $100million defeating this proposal in California - however Sacramento voted in favour and the city council are planning on implementing rent controls in the city which would benefit more than 100,000 families (72% of those in rented accommodation).

Now - not all measures were progressive - Oregon, West Virginia and Alabama voted to increase restrictions on abortion - basically saying that abortions had to be privately funded and take place in private for-profit facilities.

In political terms the corporate Democrats are claiming that the results back their strategy of appealing to the 'middle ground' - when in reality they show the opposite - the more 'progressive' the campaign the better the result. It does raise the question of the DSA working within the Democrats - and already elements within the DSA are calling for a 'socialist caucus' in the House to promote a 'progressive' agenda. The battle lines are clearly drawn - and the next step is to build a mass movement of opposition to Trump - not to simply wait for 2020. This will get an echo - people can see how the electoral college can distort the result and give Trump an anti-democratic boost (as with the Senate elections where the Democrats got 9 million more votes and still lost seats in the Senate). The DSA could play a vital role in such a mass movement - we will have to wait and see if they draw the correct conclusions or become a mudguard for the corporate Democrats.

Manic Moran · 08-11-2018 07:02PM

The merits of rent control is hotly debated. There is a lack of mobility in San Francisco and the related areas given that there is something of a self-fulfilling cycle. People who are in a place with cheap rent are very encouraged to not move. Even if they wanted to move to another location, bigger house, or whatever, the relative amount of money they are saving means that they are toughing it out for as long as possible. This means that there are fewer units coming available for rent, often in desireable locations, which, by the laws of supply and demand, means that rent becomes ridiculously high with great competition for the fewer units coming up. This also means that you can have two folks living in the same apartment building, for identical units, but one person is paying four times more (or whatever) than the guy across the hall (Prop 13 has had a similar effect with the property tax structure for homeowners). On the other hand, at least rent control keeps folks who are already present from being kicked out by rising costs.

Basically, the most people who are in favour of rent control are the people who are already renting, or believe it highly likely that they will be in a place to rent in the very near future. Folks who are fighting with everyone else to get a place, and property owners (to include me, and I am no corporate landlord) are against rent control.

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 07:12PM

everlast75 wrote: »

He has said that Sessions' dealings with Russia were just chats.

How is that false? The idea that Sessions is somehow in cahoots with mother Russian was an absolute laughable charge from the start. Imo it was a disgrace he was pulled in front of hearings to answer benign questions from frothing Democrats. The day after Trump's state of the union address the Dem's and media hopped on Sessions and eventually he felt pressured enough to recuse himself from the Russia investigation.

There's news out today that Mueller and his team are writing their final report so it won't be long until it comes out hopefully. But please FS - stop throwing around innuendo as fact just because you heard the talking heads on the TV say it.

Gbear · 08-11-2018 07:12PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Here's a mad solution, which obviously has absolutely no chance of ever happening.

Ban guns.

"Oh, but you're a European, you simply don't understand America. The second amendment is one of our most cherished freedoms."

"I bet if you banned guns there would be a lot less gun deaths."

"That's far too simplistic. You don't understand the culture."

"Yes, I do. I understand that your gun culture is totally insane. Not only can the rest of the world see it but most of your own country can see it."

"The framers of our consti-toooo-shun were visionaries. They understood that a well armed militia is the only protection against tyranny."

"You have a tyrant in the White House. And your "militias" are fanatical supporters of him."

"But such a ban would never get through Congress."

"Well, start voting for better politicians."

"But there would be civil war over it."

"Well, it's highly unlikely to be any worse than it is now, because as it is you're going around shooting the bejaysus out of each other. 13,000 gun deaths a year. That's 130,000 in a decade. Since the Iraq War, it's over 200,000 dead."

I know. It's so simplistic. And so obvious. So obvious that it's staring America in the face.

And I bet anything it would work a hell of a lot better than the gun laws there work now.

Ban. Fooking. Guns.

And ammo, while you're at it.

They can be doing plenty in the mean time, like not having a parallel society of legacy slavery victims.

There might well be a higher rate of murders in the US if they brought the standards of the lowest up to par with the rest of the western world, but if they sorted out their absurd legal system, drug legislation, instituted serious efforts to address intergenerational poverty and healthcare reform, that would probably close most of the gap in murders with the rest of the developed world, but the ****ing mad thing is that the pro-gun lot aren't interested in any of that, even if it meant the heat would be turned way down on guns as the source of the problem.

They're too busy blaming the poor for being poor, when even if that was true, it still wouldn't matter, and you'd still be left with all the problems that go along with it.

This toxic conservative ideology that has taken root in the US would be hilarious in how it perpetually drives people to cut their noses off to spite their face, if they weren't also cutting everyone elses noses off as well.

prawnsambo · 08-11-2018 07:13PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

How is that false? The idea that Sessions is somehow in cahoots with mother Russian was an absolute laughable charge from the start. Imo it was a disgrace he was pulled in front of hearings to answer benign questions from frothing Democrats. The day after Trump's state of the union address the Dem's and media hopped on Sessions and eventually he felt pressured enough to recuse himself from the Russia investigation.

There's news out today that Mueller and his team are writing there final report so it won't be long until it comes out hopefully. But please FS - stop throwing around accusations as fact just because you heard the talking heads on the TV say it.

Iirc it wasn't that he had had chats, it was that he had testified otherwise. Whether or not the chats meant anything, he had damaged his credibility on the subject. I would class it as being an honourable decision he made rather than caving under pressure. Quite possibly also to avoid having to face constant pressure from Trump to end the probe. I'm kind of leaning heavily towards the latter. Trump wouldn't strike me as the type to understand or appreciate the separation of powers.

Frank Bullitt · 08-11-2018 07:14PM

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1060592786469208068

Good breakdown of the edited video that the WH released.

Podge_irl · 08-11-2018 07:15PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

- Idaho (67%), Nebraska, Montana (53%) and Utah (54%) all voted to expand Medicaid.

Montana voted against it no? Which is odd given they have the only D governor in the list.

Of course, I doubt it will impact the Republican governors of the other states who could have just brought it through with a pen-stroke if not for ideological hatred of an Obama policy.

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 07:32PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Iirc it wasn't that he had had chats, it was that he had testified otherwise. Whether or not the chats meant anything, he had damaged his credibility on the subject. I would class it as being an honourable decision he made rather than caving under pressure. Quite possibly also to avoid having to face constant pressure from Trump to end the probe. I'm kind of leaning heavily towards the latter. Trump wouldn't strike me as the type to understand or appreciate the separation of powers.

He was asked during a hearing specifically if he saw anything on the campaign in regards to corroboration with Russian operatives. You could make the argument that what was asked is up to interpretation, he later amended what he said to distill any disparity. Here's the transcript; You can interpret that in a way that he doesn't view the day to day work he had as a senator running into people like the Russian ambassador as significant in regards to the question he was specifically asked, one or two of such interactions were public information, or you can interpret it like the Democrats and media did that Sessions was hiding secret meetings with the Russians to subvert Democracy. The man is as clean as a whistle and despite what some people here might think, has a high level of integrity.

FRANKEN: CNN has just published a story and I’m telling you this about a news story that’s just been published. I’m not expecting you to know whether or not it’s true or not. But CNN just published a story alleging that the intelligence community provided documents to the president-elect last week that included information that quote, “Russian operatives claimed to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump.” These documents also allegedly say quote, “There was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump’s surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government.”
Now, again, I’m telling you this as it’s coming out, so you know. But if it’s true, it’s obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

SESSIONS: Senator Franken, I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn’t have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.

prawnsambo · 08-11-2018 07:41PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

He was asked during a hearing specifically if he saw anything on the campaign in regards to corroboration with Russian operatives. You could make the argument that what was asked is up to interpretation, he later amended what he said to distill any disparity. Here's the transcript; You can interpret that in a way that he doesn't view the day to day work he had as a senator running into people like the Russian ambassador as significant in regards to the question he was specifically asked, one or two of such interactions were public information, or you can interpret it like the Democrats and media did that Sessions was hiding secret meetings with the Russians to subvert Democracy. The man is as clean as a whistle and despite what some people here might think, has a high level of integrity.

I do recall that exchange and that's why I was leaning heavily on the supposition that he'd recused himself rather than be forced into a confrontation with Trump. He never struck me as anything other than a man of integrity. Not necessarily one who's views I'd support, but that doesn't mean I can't respect his integrity or his ability for that matter. I suspect life has been extremely difficult for him over the last year or so. His hanging on in the job has insulated Rosenstein.

Leroy42 · 08-11-2018 07:42PM

If Sessions was so unable to handle a few questions from the Democrats, and folded to recuse himself when, as Scoops ascertains he had done absolutely nothing wrong, then it really staggering that Trump hired him to be the most important legal mind in the entire country.

Imagine him trying to control a constitutional crisis when he couldn't even handle a small bit of pressure.

Bless him all the same, those mean Democrats (the minority) asking him questions. There he was doorstepped by them, totally caught off guard with their questions and not one sympathetic person in the room or the media to stand by him. If only he had the support of POTUS behind him.

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 07:43PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I do recall that exchange and that's why I was leaning heavily on the supposition that he'd recused himself rather than be forced into a confrontation with Trump. He never struck me as anything other than a man of integrity. Not necessarily one who's views I'd support, but that doesn't mean I can't respect his integrity or his ability for that matter. I suspect life has been extremely difficult for him over the last year or so. His hanging on in the job has insulated Rosenstein.

Yup, Trump publicly said he would never have appointed him if he knew he was going to recuse himself. Sessions is a tough nut so he'll be fine but he was treated very badly by all sides.

everlast75 · 08-11-2018 07:46PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yup, Trump publicly said he would never have appointed him if he knew he was going to recuse himself. Sessions is a tough nut so he'll be fine but he was treated very badly by all sides.

He was thrown under the bus by the man he stuck his neck out for. Sessions was the first senator to endorse him.

Trump demands loyalty but doesn't show it.

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 07:46PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

If Sessions was so unable to handle a few questions from the Democrats

Blatant twist, if he was directly asked during the hearing did you ever meet the Russian Ambassador during your work as a senator how do you think he would have answered? He was asked about corroboration between the campaign and Russian operatives and he replied saying he saw none of that. Viewing it any other way is disingenuous and it was a disgrace how he was treated, the media and Dem's didn't care though. I still remember the hearings with Democrats directly accusing him of being a Russian agent, a man who spent practically his entire life serving his country.

Then everlast just throws around these stupid idiotic talking points repeating the same rubbish. It's nothing less than disingenuous smearing to try force a point or make someone look bad.

jobbridge4life · 08-11-2018 07:47PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yup, Trump publicly said he would never have appointed him if he knew he was going to recuse himself. Sessions is a tough nut so he'll be fine but he was treated very badly by all sides.

That is an embarrassing example of 'both sides-ism'.

One side is the elected opposition. The other was the man who appointed him, the Administration he worked for and was part of, and the party he came from.

It would be hilarious if I didn't suspect that this insidious nonsense wasn't afflicting people on a mass scale.

Leroy42 · 08-11-2018 07:48PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

Yup, Trump publicly said he would never have appointed him if he knew he was going to recuse himself. Sessions is a tough nut so he'll be fine but he was treated very badly by all sides.

By all sides? Really? It is very true that he was treated very badly by Trump, whatever honor the man had going into the job he lost it all by he decision to support Trump and then continue in his job despite the abuse of himself and his character and flagrant carry on by Trump.

What did the DNC do that was so terrible? They have sought to protect him from being fired, which is far more than his GOP 'colleagues' have done.

prawnsambo · 08-11-2018 07:49PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

If Sessions was so unable to handle a few questions from the Democrats, and folded to recuse himself when, as Scoops ascertains he had done absolutely nothing wrong, then it really staggering that Trump hired him to be the most important legal mind in the entire country.

Imagine him trying to control a constitutional crisis when he couldn't even handle a small bit of pressure.

Bless him all the same, those mean Democrats (the minority) asking him questions. There he was doorstepped by them, totally caught off guard with their questions and not one sympathetic person in the room or the media to stand by him. If only he had the support of POTUS behind him.

He was already AG when he recused himself. Trump absolutely lost his sh1t about it when he found out. Allegedly.

everlast75 · 08-11-2018 07:50PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What did the DNC do that was so terrible? They have sought to protect him from being fired, which is far more than his GOP 'colleagues' have done.

See Lindsey Graham go from "there'll be hell to pay" to "The President has a right to an AG he has confidence in".

All Reps roll over for Trump. Not a backbone amongst them.

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 07:53PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What did the DNC do that was so terrible? They have sought to protect him from being fired, which is far more than his GOP 'colleagues' have done.

Is your memory that bad? They were on media stations 24/7 the day after Trump's address saying Sessions lied purposely and it's a constitutional crisis having him as AG. Acted no better when they got him in front of a panel and practically quizzed him on his new found love of being a Russian agent. Sessions just sat there in disbelief the entire time.

Water John · 08-11-2018 07:56PM

Laurence Tribe, Constitutional Professor Havard tore strips off Matthew Whitaker on Amanpour CNN. He believes Matthew is not legally able to be AG.
Sorry no link.

everlast75 · 08-11-2018 07:57PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

How is that false? The idea that Sessions is somehow in cahoots with mother Russian was an absolute laughable charge from the start. Imo it was a disgrace he was pulled in front of hearings to answer benign questions from frothing Democrats. The day after Trump's state of the union address the Dem's and media hopped on Sessions and eventually he felt pressured enough to recuse himself from the Russia investigation.

There's news out today that Mueller and his team are writing their final report so it won't be long until it comes out hopefully. But please FS - stop throwing around innuendo as fact just because you heard the talking heads on the TV say it.

Have a cup of tea and take a breath.

Now- if what I said about the interaction with Russians was wrong, I take it the rest of what I said is correct to you.

If so, the thrust of what I said stays valid and true and that alone is suspect.

But you go right ahead and pick holes.

Jolly Red Giant · 08-11-2018 08:08PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Montana voted against it no? Which is odd given they have the only D governor in the list.

You are correct - I misread the results - rejected by 53-47.

Healthcare was one of the main issues for voters during the midterms - many Republican candidates published adverts supporting parts of Obamacare (although they didn't term it like that).

prawnsambo · 08-11-2018 08:13PM

Water John wrote: »

Laurence Tribe, Constitutional Professor Havard tore strips off Matthew Whitaker on Amanpour CNN. He believes Matthew is not legally able to be AG.
Sorry no link.

I think because he hasn't been properly confirmed for a post at this level. State AG confirmation not enough iirc.

Duck Soup · 08-11-2018 08:17PM

everlast75 wrote: »

He was thrown under the bus by the man he stuck his neck out for. Sessions was the first senator to endorse him.

Trump demands loyalty but doesn't show it.

I'll put good money on it he'll throw Don Jr under the Mueller bus.

Duck Soup · 08-11-2018 08:22PM

Matthew Whitaker is on shaky ground before he even starts.

Trump's acting attorney general was part of firm US accused of vast scam

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/07/matthew-whitaker-trump-attorney-general-us-firm

jobbridge4life · 08-11-2018 08:28PM

2 Scoops wrote: »

Is your memory that bad? They were on media stations 24/7 the day after Trump's address saying Sessions lied purposely and it's a constitutional crisis having him as AG. Acted no better when they got him in front of a panel and practically quizzed him on his new found love of being a Russian agent. Sessions just sat there in disbelief the entire time.

Is your connection with reality that bad? Trump acknowledged he fired Comey because of the 'Russia stuff' and from the moment Sessions recused himself in respect of the Russia investigation berated him, humiliated him and diminished his work in the role Trump appointed him to. Trump has publicly stated that his ire was based on the recusal.

relax carry on · 08-11-2018 08:33PM

God it's bad when Fox isn't exactly rowing in behind the acting AG.

"Napolitano said Whitaker, however, is not legally qualified for the role of acting attorney general because of "very precise laws" written by Congress in the wake of the Watergate scandal.

He said there are only three ways someone can become acting attorney general: if they are the deputy attorney general and the president signs an executive order to make them acting attorney general, if they are already at the Justice Department in a job that both required and received Senate confirmation or if the Senate in in recess, they can be a recess appointment.

He said none of those apply in this case, as Whitaker is not deputy attorney general, he did not receive Senate confirmation for his current role at the DOJ and the Senate is not in recess.

"So with deference and respect to what the president's trying to do -- he has every right to want whoever he wants to run the Justice Department -- he has chosen someone who does not qualify under the law to be the acting attorney general of the United States," Napolitano said."

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/08/judge-napolitano-matthew-whitaker-does-not-qualify-under-law-be-acting-attorney-general

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 08:33PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Also, while I disagree with tucker carlson on everything and find him very unlikable what those "protesters" did outside his house and then apparently inside his house to the point where his wife was scared for her life deserve a phunt up the hole. You can disagree with someone without resorting to that carry on.

Very commendable, I see Everlast said the same so fair dues. I despise the use of the word "protestors" in the media reports surrounding this incident. It's not a protest if you're ramming someones door and spray painting their driveway which can be heard on the police audio or chanting "We'll fight you we know where you sleep at night". That's vandalism and intimidation. His wife was alone in side terrified. He's taken time off presumably to move house.

What sickens me is there many verified accounts on twitter with large followings encouraging this time of behavior, On the flipside others called it out. Twitter took a long time to ban this account, initially they just removed the posts containing home addresses, it's the same group who got in the face of Ted and Heidi Cruz. There should be zero tolerance for this behavior of any kind, right or left. The extremities on each end of the spectrum make the vast majority of decent people look bad.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/tucker-carlson-critics-defend-protest-house-2018-11

2 Scoops · 08-11-2018 08:35PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Is your connection with reality that bad? Trump acknowledged he fired Comey because of the 'Russia stuff' and from the moment Sessions recused himself in respect of the Russia investigation berated him, humiliated him and diminished his work in the role Trump appointed him to. Trump has publicly stated that his ire was based on the recusal.

Fully aware of that, please point to the post where I said Trump treated him fairly. I took issue with a poster's innuendo about Sessions and his interactions with Russians.

everlast75 · 08-11-2018 08:38PM

Water John wrote: »

Laurence Tribe, Constitutional Professor Havard tore strips off Matthew Whitaker on Amanpour CNN. He believes Matthew is not legally able to be AG.
Sorry no link.

The ethics committee will put pay to Whitaker.

Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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