Madeleine McCann

Steve F · 07-11-2018 01:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Everything seems to hinge on the belief the child was alive the evening of the abduction. What if she had in fact died a previous day? Did anyone see her that evening? I think all the people at the bar who "checked" didn't look in the room.

There have always been suspicions from almost day one that she disappeared prior to May 3rd yes
Not sure of logistics or timeline but.....

SusieBlue · 07-11-2018 01:17PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deleted User wrote: »

Everything seems to hinge on the belief the child was alive the evening of the abduction. What if she had in fact died a previous day? Did anyone see her that evening? I think all the people at the bar who "checked" didn't look in the room.

The last photograph of Madeleine was taken at 2:30pm on the day of her disappearance, taken by Kate at the pool.

She was signed out of the hotel kids club at 17:30 so she was definitely alive at that point.

The conspiracy/suspicion that she died before May 3rd has no basis or merit, there is undeniable proof she was alive and well up till late that evening.

07-11-2018 01:41PM

The parents did it

SusieBlue wrote: »

The last photograph of Madeleine was taken at 2:30pm on the day of her disappearance, taken by Kate at the pool.

She was signed out of the hotel kids club at 17:30 so she was definitely alive at that point.

The conspiracy/suspicion that she died before May 3rd has no basis or merit, there is undeniable proof she was alive and well up till late that evening.

May you be correct!

With respect 17:30 is not late evening.

The photo is heavily disputed because of how long it took to become apparent, though I think it's probably real, even if its the only one with a date.

SusieBlue · 07-11-2018 01:47PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deleted User wrote: »

May you be correct!

With respect 17:30 is not late evening.

The photo is heavily disputed because of how long it took to become apparent, though I think it's probably real, even if its the only one with a date.

Actually the photo of her by the pool is one of the most widely used and most recognised photos of Madeleine, as seen here.

With respect, if splitting straws about what time constitutes late evening is your only argument, you don't have one.
Call it early evening if it suits you better but the point remains.
There is verifiable proof that she was alive and well at 5:30pm the day she went missing, yet people are still trying to speculate that she died a few days before.

Steve F · 07-11-2018 01:52PM

Fascinating debate over this photo and the "Tennis Balls" photo can be found from various sources
Worth a look

pc7 · 07-11-2018 01:54PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Jesus that photo, actually felt a pain in my stomach looking at it. That poor poor little girl, absolutely heartbreaking whatever has happened.

limnam · 07-11-2018 01:56PM

Steve F wrote: »

Fascinating debate over this photo and the "Tennis Balls" photo can be found from various sources
Worth a look

Was the photo at the pool ever verified regarding date/time?

Cyrus T Buford · 07-11-2018 02:09PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

You’re struggling.

Just admit you lied and we’ll move on.

Bye now.

I dont think you have yet answered any question put to you on this thread.

You clearly are the one struggling

retro:electro · 07-11-2018 02:11PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

I dont think you have yet answered any question put to you on this thread.

You clearly are the one struggling

Wow I have tasted my own medicine and it is bitter. :rolleyes:

I’ve answered all that was asked of me.

Timeline?

the_pen_turner · 07-11-2018 02:17PM

Something Else

limnam wrote: »

Was the photo at the pool ever verified regarding date/time?

while i agree that we need this to be proven .can you change the date afterwards. i have taken a photo a few times with the camera set to the date the photo was suposed to be taken (college projects);););).

for them to have changed the date before hand would mean they would have had to plan what ever happened to maddie. i dont think they planned anything. you never know but i doubt it

loveall · 07-11-2018 02:37PM

Poor Gerry, he really seems to get it, anyone would think Kate is a Goddess.

Steve F · 07-11-2018 02:39PM

pc7 wrote: »

Jesus that photo, actually felt a pain in my stomach looking at it. That poor poor little girl, absolutely heartbreaking whatever has happened.

Yes indeed
As a Father to Daughters myself I find it particularly heartbreaking.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this debate let us not forget that something has happened to this little Girl

Garzorico · 07-11-2018 02:39PM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

times are all approximate ranges

7.00-7.15
McCanns putting children to bed

7.15- 8.30
McCanns getting ready to go out and having a glass of wine

8.35
McCanns Arrive at Tapas Bar
Chat to Carpenter couple at another table

8.40
Jane Tanner arrives at Tapas

8.45
Rachel and Matt Oldfield leave their apartment for Tapas

8.50
Russell O’Brien arrives at Tapas
Matt Oldfield goes back to chase up the Paynes.

On his return, he listens outside McCann apartment reporting that all was quiet.

8.55
Fiona and David Payne arrive with Dianne Webster

9.05
Gerry McCann goes to check children
Notes children’s bedroom door is open wider than he thought they’d left it
Uses bathroom

9.10
Gerry McCann leaves apartment and meets Jez Wilkins for chat in street

9.15
Jane Tanner goes to do a check. Sees Gerry talking to Jez.

Sees Man carrying child walking away from apartment,Walks quickly along Rue Dr Agostinho da Silva

9.20
Gerry McCann returns to Tapas and explains that he has been chatting outside for a while.

9.25
Jane Tanner returns from her check
Kate McCann stands up to do her check but Matt Oldfield offers to pop in on his way past to do his check.

9.30
Matt Oldfield and Russell O’Brien leave Tapas together for a check.

Oldfield enters McCann apartment and listens but does not enter children’s bedroom although he says the bedroom door was half open.

On his return to the Tapas, he says that Russell O’Brien is staying with a sick child.

9.45
Jane Tanner returns to the apartment to let her husband go back to the Tapas and finish his meal.

She remains in the apartment.

10.00
Kate McCann goes to do her check and finds Madeleine missing.
Raises the alarm.

10.00
A man carrying a child is seen walking towards the beach on Rue da Escola Primaria by Smith family

first time I've seen this/any timeline for this case - alarm bells all over the place reading it.

Steve F · 07-11-2018 02:42PM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

while i agree that we need this to be proven .can you change the date afterwards. i have taken a photo a few times with the camera set to the date the photo was suposed to be taken (college projects);););).

for them to have changed the date before hand would mean they would have had to plan what ever happened to maddie. i dont think they planned anything. you never know but i doubt it

I believe it is possible to change Metadata of a photo but it takes quite specialist software that anyone involved in a supposed cover up probably wouldn't have access to. I stand to be corrected on this though

retro:electro · 07-11-2018 02:49PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

Yes indeed
As a Father to Daughters myself I find it particularly heartbreaking.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of this debate let us not forget that something has happened to this little Girl

Agreed. There’s always fractious debate surrounding this case more so than others but it’s easy to forget there are no winners here. At best a child is missing and at worst a child is dead. I suppose what we all hold in common is the yearning and not knowing what happened the poor little girl.

Steve F · 07-11-2018 02:53PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Agreed. There’s always fractious debate surrounding this case more so than others but it’s easy to forget there are no winners here. At best a child is missing and at worst a child is dead. I suppose what we all hold in common is the yearning and not knowing what happened the poor little girl.

The eternal fascination with the unknown. I believe we are born with it

limnam · 07-11-2018 03:12PM

Steve F wrote: »

I believe it is possible to change Metadata of a photo but it takes quite specialist software that anyone involved in a supposed cover up probably wouldn't have access to. I stand to be corrected on this though

Wasn't there a very long delay in getting the photo?

Was the device it was taken from ever provided to the police and verified?

I've never seen anything that it was

07-11-2018 03:35PM

The parents did it

SusieBlue wrote: »

The last photograph of Madeleine was taken at 2:30pm on the day of her disappearance, taken by Kate at the pool.

She was signed out of the hotel kids club at 17:30 so she was definitely alive at that point.

The conspiracy/suspicion that she died before May 3rd has no basis or merit, there is undeniable proof she was alive and well up till late that evening.

The creche. She was not signed out on the 1st, signed out by someone else on the 2nd apparently. I don't find the evidence she was there compelling. I think our standards of "undeniable proof" may differ. I have no dog in this fight, so it matters not which turns out to be true, but I will not be blindly lead by faith.

If I was to make full conspiracy, I would note the photo data could be changed by Geryy brother in law, a photographer. The parents also said the time on the photo data was wrong, why not the date?

SusieBlue · 07-11-2018 03:43PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Deleted User wrote: »

The creche. She was not signed out on the 1st, signed out by someone else on the 2nd apparently. I don't find the evidence she was there compelling. I think our standards of "undeniable proof" may differ. I have no dog in this fight, so it matters not which turns out to be true, but I will not be blindly lead by faith.

If I was to make full conspiracy, I would note the photo data could be changed by Geryy brother in law, a photographer. The parents also said the time on the photo data was wrong, why not the date?

What happened on the 1st & 2nd of May has absolutely zero relevance.

It was speculated on this thread that perhaps she had died a few days before, but the fact that the creche staff confirmed & proved that she attended that day & was signed out by Kate at 5:30pm (along with the twins at 5:25pm) knocks that out of the water.
Unless you are trying to suggest that the creche staff and other parents who verified this were in cahoots with the McCanns as well.

If you don't think that evidence is relevant that's your prerogative, but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

I have no doubt that Gerry's brother in law would be able to change the data if necessary.
I also have no doubt that the police would have investigated this possibility thoroughly, and would have far better investigative and IT resources available to them that would have uncovered any editing of dates/times, if it had actually occurred.

Steve F · 07-11-2018 03:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The creche. She was not signed out on the 1st, signed out by someone else on the 2nd apparently. I don't find the evidence she was there compelling. I think our standards of "undeniable proof" may differ. I have no dog in this fight, so it matters not which turns out to be true, but I will not be blindly lead by faith.

If I was to make full conspiracy, I would note the photo data could be changed by Geryy brother in law, a photographer. The parents also said the time on the photo data was wrong, why not the date?

Now that's interesting,I didn't know he was a photographer :eek:

SusieBlue · 07-11-2018 03:46PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

[/B]

Now that's interesting,I didn't know he was a photographer :eek:

Do you think a photogrophers editing skills would be superior enough to fool an professional forensic IT specialist? Who's job it would be to uncover such edits and manipulations?

Plumbthedepths · 07-11-2018 03:47PM

SusieBlue wrote:

Do you think a photogrophers editing skills would be superior enough to fool an government forensic IT specialist?

Can only people employed in a government sector be experts? With the right computer programme everyone can be an expert.

Boom_Bap · 07-11-2018 03:49PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Can only people employed in a government sector be experts? With the right computer programme everyone can be an expert.

This was a good few years ago when photograph editing software was not widely available, maybe just photoshop which had a hefty license with it. That would rule out everyone.

Charmeleon · 07-11-2018 03:51PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Do you think a photogrophers editing skills would be superior enough to fool an professional forensic IT specialist? Who's job it would be to uncover such edits and manipulations?

Unless they got a warrant to sieze the exact memory card that was used then the photo that is circulated can easily have the date/time changed using fairly standard and free software. The output file from this software has no built-in forensic data.

In fact some camera manufacturers have specialist cameras and software for police and forensic use that show when the file data has been changed precisely because it is so easy to spoof the camera data that it could easily be challenged in court.

Steve F · 07-11-2018 03:52PM

Begs the question how much of a photographer was/is the Brother in Law? Amateur or Professional?

limnam · 07-11-2018 03:52PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Do you think a photogrophers editing skills would be superior enough to fool an professional forensic IT specialist? Who's job it would be to uncover such edits and manipulations?

Do you have a report from an IT specialist that checked the device and confirmed the date and time?

Charmeleon · 07-11-2018 03:52PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

This was a good few years ago when photograph editing software was not widely available, maybe just photoshop which had a hefty license with it. That would rule out everyone.

Exiftool has been freely available since 2005. (Edit to change from 2003 to 2005)

SusieBlue · 07-11-2018 03:52PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Can only people employed in a government sector be experts? With the right computer programme everyone can be an expert.

No of course not, a better choice of word would be professional, which is what I edited it to.
Do you think if you downloaded some computer software to have a go off of, you could compete with a professional forensic IT specialist who actually works in the field?

And again, I'll ask, even if he did change the data, do you think your average photographer back in 2007's skill set would be able to fool a trained professional in forensic IT?

limnam · 07-11-2018 03:53PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

No of course not, a better choice of word would be professional, which is what I edited it to.
Do you think if you downloaded some computer software to have a go off of, you could compete with a professional forensic IT specialist who actually works in the field?

And again, I'll ask, even if he did change the data, do you think your average photographer back in 2007's skill set would be able to fool a trained professional in forensic IT?

did a trained professional examine the card/device ?

SusieBlue · 07-11-2018 03:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Do you have a report from an IT specialist that checked the device and confirmed the date and time?

No, but any investigator worth their salt would have looked into it. The Portuguese were desperate to pin it on the McCann's, if there was any possibility that they date/time of the photos had been manipulated I'm sure they had the man power to investigate and prove that.

Madeleine McCann

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