Madeleine McCann

splinter65 · 05-11-2018 09:44AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

Well said, a lot of the posters constantly go on about what her parents suffered or went through, but what about Madeline, what about the suffering that poor child went through?

Madeleine suffered. She’s dead. Her parents suffered. They continue to suffer everyday. Why do you want them to suffer more? What kind of person wants to inflict more suffering on people who have been suffering horrendously for 12 years.
People like you.
Unless you want to argue that they’re not suffering.
Go ahead.

splinter65 · 05-11-2018 09:47AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ozzy jr wrote: »

Seriously, you need to read the reply you quoted. I even want as far as to say I was not refering to the McCanns or the Tapas 7, but you still ignored that.

And people lie about a lot more serious things than "a new hairstyle".

Bill Clinton never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.
Richard Nixon knew nothing about Watergate.
OJ Simpson didn't kill his wife.
Neither did Joe O'Reilly.

History is full of people prepared to lie.

ONCE AGAIN I'M NOT REFERRING TO THE MCCANNS OR THE TAPAS 7, JUST MAKING A GENERAL POINT ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO TO PROTEST THEIR INNOCENCE, REGARDLESS OF THE EVIDENCE AGAINST THEM.

None of the examples you give compare to 7 ordinary Joe Soaps all colluding to lie about thevery sudden tragic death of one of their minor children, and maintaining that lie doggedly for 12 years.
You haven’t even made a good attempt here. Very poor.
Unless your arguing that they planned to kill Madeleine prior to the holiday.
I know that was one of the anti McCann cult theories, back in the day....

limnam · 05-11-2018 10:37AM

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m sure you were on The Three Arguidos forum all those years ago. Of course you were. You all couldn’t explain this super human secret keeping theory on behalf of the Tapas 7 then, and you still can’t explain it.
Because it just doesn’t make any sense limnam. It didn’t make any sense then and 12 years later you still can’t make it fit your theory .
That’s why people who kept asking the difficult questions on that forum got banned.
You have a theory and you don’t want any pesky difficult questions like “who moved the body where when and how?”
to be asked because the lack of answers doesn’t fit your theory.
Frustrating for you but not enough that you’ll even consider, for one minute, that you could possibly be wrong all along....

Huh...

What waffle..

You don't even know what my "theory" is or even if I have one....

ozzy jr · 05-11-2018 10:39AM

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

None of the examples you give compare to 7 ordinary Joe Soaps all colluding to lie about thevery sudden tragic death of one of their minor children, and maintaining that lie doggedly for 12 years.

Jeez

How many times do I have to spell it out to you?

ozzy jr wrote:

ONCE AGAIN I'M NOT REFERRING TO THE MCCANNS OR THE TAPAS 7, JUST MAKING A GENERAL POINT ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO TO PROTEST THEIR INNOCENCE, REGARDLESS OF THE EVIDENCE AGAINST THEM.

ozzy jr wrote:

I'll spell it out to you again, PEOPLE lie all the time. I'm not specifically saying the McCanns are or the Tapas 7 or anything like that. PEOPLE, just people in general.

ozzy jr wrote:

People do it all the time, not necessarily after their child goes missing, but people lie all the time.

Does that clear it up for you, or do I need to spell it out for you again. Ah sure I may as well. People lie all the time, from small little lies, to big f**kin huge ones. I'm not suggesting for one minute that the McCanns or the Tapas 7 are doing anything of the sort. I think that's as clear as I can make it.

Yet somehow you manage to come up with this......

splinter65 wrote: »

Unless your arguing that they planned to kill Madeleine prior to the holiday.

Wtf is going on in your head? I never mentioned anything of the sort.

iamwhoiam · 05-11-2018 10:58AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Some posters are putting words in others mouths on this thread . Its very obvious and best ignored .

Plumbthedepths · 05-11-2018 11:00AM

splinter65 wrote:

Itâ€™s not ridiculous. Parents put children down for the night and they close the bedroom door and go to their own bedroom and go to sleep. Anything could happen any child in its own room while itâ€™s parent is asleep or outside cutting the grass. Unless you sit in your childâ€™s bedroom while they sleep then they are being left unattended. The children were all being checked at regular intervals, in a Rota involving 3 sets of parents thatâ€™s how she was discovered missing. You prefer to imply that the children were dumped into bed and abandoned by careless unloving neglectful parents. People seem to get particularly gleeful pleasure out of sitting in pious judgment over the McCanns because they were medical professionals who both came from very ordinary backgrounds, so working class kids made â€œgoodâ€ so to speak. This seems to irk a certain section of society, who in years gone by would have derided G McCann in particular as an â€œupstartâ€, cheeky and brash whoâ€™d â€œgot above himselfâ€. The unfortunate woman who took her own life after being outed by Sky News as one of the internet trolls who spent vast hours trying to destroy Kate McCann was particularly irked by what she imagined was the lavish lifestyle Mrs McCann enjoyed as a GP married to a consultant cardiologist. The disappeance of Maddie McCann. The gift that keeps on giving to those who sit and judge.

In relevance to the McCann case it is . Putting your child to sleep in their own bed and remaining in the house is in stark contrast to what the McCanns did. Surprised you don't see the difference.

Steve F · 05-11-2018 12:00PM

You will need quite a bit of free time to watch the 3 x 45 mins Youtube video's featuring Statement analyst Peter Hyatt titled "Embedded Confessions"
Not just to anyone interested in the McCann disappearance but anyone interested in the science of how investigators interpret what someone says and what they could possibly be unintentionally saying?
Peter comes across as someone fairly level headed and dare I say it has no agenda regarding this particular case.
As I said you will need to spend well over 2hrs in total watch time as the subject is split into 3 x 45 mins episodes but for the full benefit I recommend watching all 3
It really made me think and also listen more closely to what people say
Body language is another fascinating subject...

Toots · 05-11-2018 01:05PM

We need to get Tim Roth in there to figure out who's lying and what really happened

Kingp35 · 05-11-2018 01:27PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

There is a clear divide in this thread between posters who think Madeleine was abducted and those who think the parents were involved. Both sets of posters are essentially using the exact same argument to back up their position - The total lack of evidence.

That's what it boils down to - there is no evidence that Madeleine was abducted but equally there is no evidence that the parents were involved. That's what makes this such a frustrating case. What's clear though is that nobody posting on this thread can be certain about the opinion they hold and the I find the staunch refusal to listen to the arguments of the other side to be a little odd, especially from posters who think it was a simple abduction case.

MODE NOTE: As an aside, posters stating that they don't think the parents have suffered enough are dangerously close to breaking the rules of this forum. You may hold the opinion that the parents were negligent without being so vitriolic

iamwhoiam · 05-11-2018 01:50PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The fact there is no evidence at all leads me to believe it was a planned inside job
The pattern of leaving the kids was established . They had booked tables in the Tapas in advance and staff knew the pattern . Maybe a member of staff passed this on to a paedophile gang or possibly mentioned to someone who then passed it on
Staff have keys to the doors and its not difficult to imagine a key was used to open the front door ( the door on the far side away from the Tapas ) They would use gloves and enter in the darkness
That door is sheltered by trees and in darkness not impossible to imagine they wouldn't be seen
A car parked in the small parking space between the path and the door . A key used , child wrapped in a blanket , into the car and gone
Gone north into dark isolated countryside and gone before Madeleine was even missed
There are balconys on the apartment block across the road behind the Mc Canns but on a dark cool May evening iits not impropable to think no one wad sitting out that evening .

No evidence at all for my thoughts but it's possible and not improbable to imagine it could happen

Charmeleon · 05-11-2018 02:07PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The fact there is no evidence at all leads me to believe it was a planned inside job
The pattern of leaving the kids was established . They had booked tables in the Tapas in advance and staff knew the pattern . Maybe a member of staff passed this on to a paedophile gang or possibly mentioned to someone who then passed it on
Staff have keys to the doors and its not difficult to imagine a key was used to open the front door ( the door on the far side away from the Tapas ) They would use gloves and enter in the darkness
That door is sheltered by trees and in darkness not impossible to imagine they wouldn't be seen
A car parked in the small parking space between the path and the door . A key used , child wrapped in a blanket , into the car and gone
Gone north into dark isolated countryside and gone before Madeleine was even missed
There are balconys on the apartment block across the road behind the Mc Canns but on a dark cool May evening iits not impropable to think no one wad sitting out that evening .

No evidence at all for my thoughts but it's possible and not improbable to imagine it could happen

Possible for sure.

The only thing is the Smith sighting seems to be a genuine sighting of the child being taken away by foot by someone obviously not prepared ahead of time. No one has ever come forward despite being seen by an entire family. The child was not covered in a blanket and was just in pygamas and bare feet.

Whoever this was seems to have been responsible for the disappearance and had a very poor plan in place if they ended up walking around the streets with a sleeping child a few hundred meters away from the apartment.

iamwhoiam · 05-11-2018 02:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

Possible for sure.

The only thing is the Smith sighting seems to be a genuine sighting of the child being taken away by foot by someone obviously not prepared ahead of time. No one has ever come forward despite being seen by an entire family. The child was not covered in a blanket and was just in pygamas and bare feet.

Whoever this was seems to have been responsible for the disappearance and had a very poor plan in place if they ended up walking around the streets with a sleeping child a few hundred meters away from the apartment.

Yes that is a valid point .Having said that it was never proven the Smyths saw Gerry Mc Cann and it may not have been connected ? The Mark Warner creche had kids sleeping there and supervised from 8pm until 11pm ./ People collected there kids from there and often lifted them asleep back to their apartments.
It just could have been an innocent person bringing his child home . The way it was described how Gerry carried one of the twins is not an unusual way to carry a child in my opinion .I have seen lots of fathers carry kids like that

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-smiths-sighting.html

Steve F · 05-11-2018 02:49PM

Kingp35 wrote: »

There is a clear divide in this thread between posters who think Madeleine was abducted and those who think the parents were involved. Both sets of posters are essentially using the exact same argument to back up their position - The total lack of evidence.

That's what it boils down to - there is no evidence that Madeleine was abducted but equally there is no evidence that the parents were involved. That's what makes this such a frustrating case. What's clear though is that nobody posting on this thread can be certain about the opinion they hold and the I find the staunch refusal to listen to the arguments of the other side to be a little odd, especially from posters who think it was a simple abduction case.

MODE NOTE: As an aside, posters stating that they don't think the parents have suffered enough are dangerously close to breaking the rules of this forum. You may hold the opinion that the parents were negligent without being so vitriolic

And then there's the likes of myself who is still undecided and completely flummoxed by the whole affair yeah? There is a middle ground for this

DublinWriter · 05-11-2018 03:01PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The fact there is no evidence at all leads me to believe it was a planned inside job

Often thought this myself and wondered how thoroughly the staff were questioned\vetted by the police at the time.

splinter65 · 05-11-2018 03:11PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

You will need quite a bit of free time to watch the 3 x 45 mins Youtube video's featuring Statement analyst Peter Hyatt titled "Embedded Confessions"
Not just to anyone interested in the McCann disappearance but anyone interested in the science of how investigators interpret what someone says and what they could possibly be unintentionally saying?
Peter comes across as someone fairly level headed and dare I say it has no agenda regarding this particular case.
As I said you will need to spend well over 2hrs in total watch time as the subject is split into 3 x 45 mins episodes but for the full benefit I recommend watching all 3
It really made me think and also listen more closely to what people say
Body language is another fascinating subject...

Peters opinion is peters. No more or less worthy then my own.

iamwhoiam · 05-11-2018 03:14PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

DublinWriter wrote: »

Often thought this myself and wondered how thoroughly the staff were questioned\vetted by the police at the time.

Its a lot of reading but scroll down to Mark Warner employees and there is a long list of interviews

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

Steve F · 05-11-2018 03:25PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Peters opinion is peters. No more or less worthy then my own.

Hi Splinter65
Have you watched all 3 episodes?
I agree it is only his opinion,however he is a trained Statement Analyst.Surely that counts for something?

Regards
Steve F

cnocbui · 05-11-2018 05:15PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

DublinWriter wrote: »

Often thought this myself and wondered how thoroughly the staff were questioned\vetted by the police at the time.

The nannies gave statements to the Police and then were immediately shipped off to other MW resorts (Greece), the following day. MW also got in Bell-Potter to provide emergency public relations services, which they generously extended to the McCanns. Apart from the nannies being shipped out within 24hrs of giving statements, they also shipped out 3 other staff members. All very helpful of them.

They also helpfully provided the nannies with rape whistles and warnings. What did they tell their customers?

“We were told, ‘Here’s a rape whistle, don’t go anywhere by yourself, ever.’ There’d been a girl attacked the year or so before in Praia da Luz. It didn’t sound like a family resort to me.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/nanny-who-looked-after-madeline-mccann-speaks-out-for-the-first-time/news-story/926dc5312ec184fbec0d5235ef63b4d2

MonkieSocks · 05-11-2018 05:46PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://mmknowthetruth.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-smiths-sighting.html

I just read of Aoife Smiths statement.

Hadn't read that one for a while.

Only twigged this but, Aoife said the child had a top with Long Sleeves.

If I remember correctly the press release for Madeline said a top with short sleeves.

Might not be anything but I only noticed it now

A good read here from another Sighting.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

Kidchameleon · 06-11-2018 12:00AM

A few observations...

Abduction theory

One thing that I feel gets brushed under the carpet during discussions about this case is the fact that there were multiple burglaries in Praia de Luz during the time leading up to the McCann's holiday, it was not a safe area. There were sex assaults on young girls in the Algarve where the attacker was caught in the child's bed in the holiday apartment. If this kind of behavior was going on, its not too much of stretch to imagine an escalation to abduction.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/23/madeleine-mccann-police-nine-assaults-british-girls-algarve

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3733.0

The sniffer dogs

While I have nothing but respect for the accuracy of sniffer dogs (I have personally seen them in action in Ireland), something does not sit quite right with me about their findings in this case. The hire car was obtained two weeks after Madeline went missing. Two weeks into the investigation and the entire world was watching the McCann's. There is no way they would have put Madeline's body into that car. It would just be impossible and literally asking to be caught. It was a car that they would have to give back at some stage, along with all the evidence. Why would they do that?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13386785

The Smith sighting

Martin Smith made his initial statement to the investigators but weeks later changed elements of his testimony. He made these changes after seeing Gerry McCann walking out of an airplane carrying one of the twins. He said it was "the way he carried the child" that caused him to have second thoughts. This always didn't sit right with me. How many ways are there to carry a sleeping child? The photo fits made during the Smith's initial statements look nothing like Gerry.

Here is footage of Gerry holding the sleeping child, I cannot find the footage of him walking from the plane but I did see that footage on Sky News at the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pepDNi7WSYs&t=17s

From:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

"Reported that he passed a male carrying a child in Praia da Luz the night Maddie went missing. Went and made a statement to Portugal police in Portimao on 26th of May and returned to the U.K. Is saying that after seeing McCANNS on the news on 9th of September when they returned to the U.K. He has not slept and is worried sick. He states he was watching the 10 pm news on BBC and saw the McCANNS getting off the plane and coming down the steps. He states it was like watching an action replay of the night he saw the male carrying the child back in Portugal. He states the way Gerry was carrying his twin triggered something in his head. It was exactly the same way and look of the other male seen the night Maddy went missing. He also watched ITV news and SKY news and inferred it looked like the same person both times carrying the children. Is asking a member of the OP Task Force to ring him back. He was with a group of 9 family and friends the night he saw the male in Portugal. He sounded quite shaken and worried whilst speaking to me. "

I believe that Martin Smith MAY have been biased having been caught up in the whole sh*t storm of the situation.

Kidchameleon · 06-11-2018 12:16AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

A good read here from another Sighting.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

If I read that correctly, the witness made an initial statement then changed some details to implicate the McCanns after viewing a few days of wall to wall television coverage about the case. Later, it was found that the man carrying the child was a Ukrainian guy, the child was his daughter and the woman who the witness was "positive" was Kate McCann was in fact the Ukrainian mans wife.

This is what I think happened with the Smith sighting.

Deusexmachina · 06-11-2018 12:17AM

redshoes15 wrote: »

Madeline Mc Cann was 3 years old when she was left in an unlocked/unsecured property alone with her two younger siblings while her parents went to have dinner and drinks. The children may or may not have been drugged to ensure they didn’t cause any issues or problems. Madeline Mc Cann either: 1) Wandered off and was involved in an accident/incident that was fatal. 2) Was abducted from this property by persons unknown. 3) Came to harm at the hands of their parents (either accidentally or intentionally) or a member/members of the Tapas 7. Nothing about this case has ever caused me to feel bitter. Nothing apart from the fact that the case remains unsolved and the child was put in danger by the people who should have been her biggest protectors annoy me. I find the tone used in your response to my previous post absolutely pathetic.

What evidence have you that the children were ‘drugged’?

Deusexmachina · 06-11-2018 12:23AM

redshoes15 wrote: »

I absolutely don’t think they have suffered enough no. They contributed to the losing of their child. In my opinion they should have been arrested and charged with child endangerment/child neglect and/or child abandonment. The 7 other people who dined with them should also have faced the same charges. Yes, I believe if this had been John and Tracey Smith from Bristol who were not doctors/middle class they would have been torn through the courts and vilified by the media from the outset of the case first breaking(and rightly so).

That’s hysterical nonsense combined with a mighty chip on your shoulder. Nasty, callous and ignorant comment.

MonkieSocks · 06-11-2018 01:11AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Some vital witnesses the Portuguese Police didn't interview.

Michael Sperry and Clare Sperry
________________________________________________

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS.htm

He told us that yesterday, between 8.30 and 9pm, while he was in the "TAPAS" restaurant, he noted that a person of around 1.70m, with long blond hair, apparently of the "Rasta," style and dressed in green military-style clothes, entered the restaurant. This person did not stay very long. Their behaviour was somewhat strange and they seemed to be rather nervous. He was alone, he did not speak to anyone and left soon afterwards. The informant maintains that he has never seen this person in the village.

MICHAEL SPERREY CLARE SPERREY

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm

In the main reception (open 24h) of the Ocean Club, the signatory [undersigned] was able to observe a person with long hair, curly, blonde in colour, with camouflage shorts and green sweat-shirt, which fit the description of the suspect of the "Rastas", it being that I questioned the receptionist about him, who said that this individual and his wife are guests in the hotel and he has been tireless, since yesterday, in search of the missing girl. Attached are photocopies of their passports as well as the hotel registration form.

[The very last paragraph of my translation of pages 121-125 in /PJ/TAPAS-EMPLOYEES.htm states that they are passport copies of the person identified as the man with 'Rasta' hairstyle, camouflage shorts and green sweat-shirt (taken to be the person seen by Jez Wilkins per his witness statement), and his wife. They were resort guests. I have no reference to a formal witness statement from them on file, merely the above identification to eliminate them from the inquiry.]

The Sperry's had booked the tapas for 9pm 3rd may

MonkieSocks · 06-11-2018 01:34AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Some vital witnesses the Portuguese Police didn't interview.

Paul and Susan Moyse

Paul Moyes, 58, who is on holiday with his wife, Susan, said:

"The couple said the drama unfolded after what they described as “a fabulous day” in the Praia Da Luz resort.

It was as the couple were sleeping that three-year-old Madeleine was snatched from her parents’ holiday apartment below.

Mrs Moyes, 58, from Middlewich, Cheshire, told how they had returned to their apartment at around 9.15pm after an evening out.

“We went into the apartment, I went out on the balcony, looking over at the tapas bar, and remarked to Paul that there were so many people in there eating and drinking – ’what a fabulous day’.”

Among those dining in the tapas bar opposite their apartment were Madeleine’s parents, Gerry and Kate, who were making regular trips back to their own rooms to check on their children.

Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.

“At 11.30pm there was a knock on the door. I went out in my dressing gown and there was a distressed gentleman there saying that a child had been abducted and could we help with the search..

So, we got dressed and joined in the search, we were out until about four in the morning with, oooh… about, I don't know, thirty people... thirty other people, maybe.

The Mark Warner team were out, errm... and other guests at the Ocean Club.
rr-composite-moyesv3.jpg?w=960

prinzeugen · 06-11-2018 01:46AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

I would love to see these "experts" that comment on that Tears of a crime show read the parents body language.

I have said from day one that the mother knows exactly what happened.

Not one more penny should be spent on this case. I just hope the Met police will spend millions on every British kid that goes missing abroad in future.

the_pen_turner · 06-11-2018 01:53AM

Something Else

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Some vital witnesses the Portuguese Police didn't interview.

Paul and Susan Moyse

Paul Moyes, 58, who is on holiday with his wife, Susan, said:

"The couple said the drama unfolded after what they described as “a fabulous day” in the Praia Da Luz resort.

It was as the couple were sleeping that three-year-old Madeleine was snatched from her parents’ holiday apartment below.

Mrs Moyes, 58, from Middlewich, Cheshire, told how they had returned to their apartment at around 9.15pm after an evening out.

“We went into the apartment, I went out on the balcony, looking over at the tapas bar, and remarked to Paul that there were so many people in there eating and drinking – ’what a fabulous day’.”

Among those dining in the tapas bar opposite their apartment were Madeleine’s parents, Gerry and Kate, who were making regular trips back to their own rooms to check on their children.

Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.

“At 11.30pm there was a knock on the door. I went out in my dressing gown and there was a distressed gentleman there saying that a child had been abducted and could we help with the search..

So, we got dressed and joined in the search, we were out until about four in the morning with, oooh… about, I don't know, thirty people... thirty other people, maybe.

The Mark Warner team were out, errm... and other guests at the Ocean Club.

its a crazy situation.
if a child was missing the parents would be screaming adn shouting out her name. if they could hear children crying then they would easily hear a very distressed parent calling for their child. .

Deusexmachina · 06-11-2018 02:06AM

prinzeugen wrote: »

I would love to see these "experts" that comment on that Tears of a crime show read the parents body language.

I have said from day one that the mother knows exactly what happened.

Not one more penny should be spent on this case. I just hope the Met police will spend millions on every British kid that goes missing abroad in future.

And why did you say that from Day One? Looks suspicious, does she? What did she do?

redshoes15 · 06-11-2018 03:02AM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

What evidence have you that the children were ‘drugged’?

“The children may or may not have been drugged to ensure they didn’t cause any issues or problems.”

I’m pretty sure that’s an exact quote from my post, I’m open to correction tho...

redshoes15 · 06-11-2018 03:04AM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

That’s hysterical nonsense combined with a mighty chip on your shoulder. Nasty, callous and ignorant comment.

And that’s a litany of personal insults you have spewed in my direction on a discussion board. Wowzers!!

Madeleine McCann

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