What is your impression of Aspergers syndrome?

James Brown · 05-11-2018 5:22pm

Zaph wrote: »

I have a friend who has two children on the spectrum and have worked with several people over the years who I'd be very surprised weren't on it as well. Not entirely sure how that's relevant though, I'm not the one slagging them off.

We're all on the spectrum to varying degrees.

One eyed Jack · 05-11-2018 5:22pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Well i think your wrong but you don't have to agree with me. In my view if my child badly breaks their leg i am not qualified to make sure they get the right care.

Parents are the ones with the hangup's regarding labels and medical care, they should be trying to take get the best care for their children so the long term outcome is great and the child does not end up in an institution.

Also i don't think i need to point out the parallels between ones personal beliefs in both cases and medical evidence but i will.

While we’re drawing parallels, your idea was tried in the past, and it caused massive social damage to society where children who became wards of the State were institutionalised and subjected to all sorts of inhumane treatment, only to be institutionalised later in life as adults (if they lived that long), secluded and excluded from society.

All because of the personal beliefs of a minority of people who had the power to use agents of the State to enforce their personal beliefs on other people. If your policy had been in force 30 years ago, I would have been institutionalised in a rehabilitation centre and would likely still be unable to read or write, only making potato patterns on paper or working on an assembly line for 3 quid a week because I wouldn’t have been regarded as being capable of much more according to what some people believed at the time.

I was fortunate enough to have parents who were in a position to be able to tell other people what they could do with their personal beliefs and their ideas for how other people should raise their children.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 05-11-2018 5:25pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We're all on the spectrum to varying degrees.

I've heard that before

"Sure there's something wrong with all of us"

One eyed Jack · 05-11-2018 5:25pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We're all on the spectrum to varying degrees.

Speak for yourself there Matt :pac:

professore · 05-11-2018 5:27pm

mvl wrote: »

Saw few "coming out" posts in here, this is good.
- might have guessed some, without getting into details... but maybe I have an online radar now, after my personal experiences .

Now ... I would be curious hearing some thoughts from NT partners/children: how is it to be married/in a partnership with someone with Asperger's; how are they as parents ?

Thanks,

My wife has Aspergers - and I agree with others that there SHOULD be a line between Aspergers and autism, ASD doesn't cut it. She is easier to live with since we now know she has it. She needs some time to herself every day and if we are going anywhere social we need to plan it well in advance, and she needs to know she can leave at a certain time.

Also I often go to events alone or with my older daughters as she and I are quite social and enjoy the whole thing. Ironically I come across as "shy" compared to her, as she tends to talk and talk in social situations as a coping mechanism, whereas I need to feel out the room first.

The most difficult thing is that she is extremely stubborn and will never ever admit she is wrong about something. Some might cynically say all women are like that but this is another level entirely. Often the "being wrong" was her misunderstanding something that was said. For example I might have said looking at 2 t-shirts 10 years ago, one blue and one green "I don't like the green one" and she would interpret that as I hate anything green regardless of context, and when I would say "that's not true" she would accuse me of saying it 10 years previous. Upon digging it nearly always turns out to be something like the t shirt example.

Also she doesn't seem to understand analogies. If I say I don't like it when she tells me "I don't like beards so you should always shave" and I say "How would you feel if I said "I don't like makeup so you should never wear any" she says these two examples are completely different and totally irrelevant to each other. This makes it much harder to explain social things to her.

This kind of thing has caused a lot of conflict in our relationship. Now I understand it better, I explain these things a lot more.

She gets obsessed with particular songs and music and plays them ALL THE TIME. Also certain games on her phone she could play for hours on end.

Most people who know her would say she is confident, articulate and outgoing. We get to see how draining she really finds it all and how little she actually enjoys it. I suspect there are nearly as many Aspie girls out there as boys, but the girls can hide it better.

CinemaGuy45 · 05-11-2018 5:29pm

wexie wrote: »

If my experiences with HSE adult mental health care are anything to go by you could end up with a diagnosis of being French

I went into a shrink once in my life for one visit in total before I knew about the ASD.

I was feeling down after somebody close had died and work was proving a disaster at the time.

The shrink said to me you don't think the dead person is going to come back or anything?
I replied that is why I am depressed and sad I know what death is.

He asked a few more questions like this and said my reactions were normal and I was not crazy.:rolleyes:

I went because I was feeling like sh*t I knew I was sane:rolleyes:.

It's like going to a doctor with a broken arm and saying your in pain and the doctor telling you that you do indeed have a broken arm the pain is quite normal now move along.:D

AndrewJRenko · 05-11-2018 5:30pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think you will find that they were wrong or simply made it up.

You'd have to have been through a diagnosis to understand that it's laughable to suggest that an over the phone is possible. It takes hours of face to face to be diagnosed.

For the record, the people involved were fully in agreement with your position that diagnosis by phone is laughable at best and dangerous at worst. They weren't suggesting that this was a good approach - quite the opposite.

Calhoun · 05-11-2018 5:37pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

While we’re drawing parallels, your idea was tried in the past, and it caused massive social damage to society where children who became wards of the State were institutionalised and subjected to all sorts of inhumane treatment, only to be institutionalised later in life as adults (if they lived that long), secluded and excluded from society.

All because of the personal beliefs of a minority of people who had the power to use agents of the State to enforce their personal beliefs on other people. If your policy had been in force 30 years ago, I would have been institutionalised in a rehabilitation centre and would likely still be unable to read or write, only making potato patterns on paper or working on an assembly line for 3 quid a week because I wouldn’t have been regarded as being capable of much more according to what some people believed at the time.

I was fortunate enough to have parents who were in a position to be able to tell other people what they could do with their personal beliefs and their ideas for how other people should raise their children.

What idea was tried in the past? I have never said to force anyone to do anything. I said parents who do not engage in helping their children at all because they are afraid of a label are as damaging as anti-vaxxers.

Your falling into the anecdotal evidence trap and turning this into something that is solely about you. You had one experience, and are basically saying that lets ignore all the fact based evidence that the right care can have a positive impact. Sure why engage in modern medicine at all we should just burn the science witches at the stake.

So lets get back to what i am saying, 1. Parents need to fight on behalf of their children and not blindly accept any single person or professionals word on it and believe me when i say this you have to fight all the time to just get basic services, but 2. there are a group of parents out their who are so fearful of the stigma of a label they won't get any help and support which could make the lives of their children a hell of allot easier.

yourdeadwright · 05-11-2018 5:38pm

Its strange because in certain moment in a certain set of circumstances we all show signs of Asperger's depending on our life experience and likes and dislikes .
I think we may come to a point where we over prescribe people as having Asperger's ,

All humans have certain character flaws and at the moment we seem to be a race who want to find a reason or "problem" in certain parts of someone character that we do like or find "normal "

Sometimes children's acts as children are seen as odd and something that need's to be fixed when in fact its just a child being a child,
Then if said child is constantly told growing up he is different and has a "problem" he will grow up believing this and trying to be something he is not, As people when then notice something is not quite right and further beat on the drum that the person has a medical issue such has Asperger's

Its a dangerous road

DEFTLEFTHAND · 05-11-2018 5:39pm

It's amazing how it's missed so often in early development, I've heard of people in their late 30s being diagnosed with it for the first time.

Most people with it seem to get on well and are usually above average intelligence.

I wouldn't consider anybody with it to be a 'weirdo' or creepy.

professore · 05-11-2018 5:56pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's amazing how it's missed so often in early development, I've heard of people in their late 30s being diagnosed with it for the first time.

Most people with it seem to get on well and are usually above average intelligence.

I wouldn't consider anybody with it to be a 'weirdo' or creepy.

I work in IT and let's just say I encounter more people on the spectrum than in the average workplace. I find many with it are great to work with but less so when you go out to the pub as they just continue the same conversations that they were having at work. I remember one night in particular where this particular guy showed up and no one else did and it was the most painful hour I ever put in in my life. The guy had no ability to hold a conversation. Everything was "Yes" and "No" answers. I eventually made my excuses and left.

Sleeper12 · 05-11-2018 5:57pm

wexie wrote:

If my experiences with HSE adult mental health care are anything to go by you could end up with a diagnosis of being French

Had an adult nephew in the mental health ward in the Mater hospital for two weeks a few years ago. Because he checked himself in & he was an adult they wanted very little to do with the family. We were pushing for him to be assessed for autism. After two weeks the only answer we got was that he had too many visitors for him to be autistic.. A year or two later he was arrested during a water meter protest. In court his mother stated that autism runs in our family and we all believed /knew that he was autistic. Judge had him assessed and he is autistic with bells on.

HSE mental health sucks

One eyed Jack · 05-11-2018 5:59pm

Calhoun wrote: »

What idea was tried in the past? I have never said to force anyone to do anything. I said parents who do not engage in helping their children at all because they are afraid of a label are as damaging as anti-vaxxers.

What do you suggest is done then with children and what Katherine Zappone would call “unsupportive parents”? The anti-vaxxers comparison isn’t helpful because that too is as mired in political ideologies as diagnoses of what are considered developmental disorders and other conditions regarding child development and children’s welfare.

Your falling into the anecdotal evidence trap and turning this into something that is solely about you. You had one experience, and are basically saying that lets ignore all the fact based evidence that the right care can have a positive impact. Sure why engage in modern medicine at all we should just burn the science witches at the stake.

I’m not falling into any anecdotal evidence trap. There’s mountains of evidence to support the fact that removing children from their parents causes children more harm than any good it’s perceived to have done. That’s exactly why it’s not regarded as best practice any more to do so. Of course the right care can have a positive impact, which is why I disagree with your idea that forcing parents into conforming to your ideological beliefs would not have a positive impact on their children’s welfare. When modern medicine and science are infested with ideologues who are more interested in promoting their ideology than they are in children’s welfare, then society suffers for their personal and political beliefs.

So lets get back to what i am saying, 1. Parents need to fight on behalf of their children and not blindly accept any single person or professionals word on it and believe me when i say this you have to fight all the time to just get basic services, but 2. there are a group of parents out their who are so fearful of the stigma of a label they won't get any help and support which could make the lives of their children a hell of allot easier.

There are a group of parents out there who aren’t so much fearful of any stigma, but rather they are fighting on behalf of their children for what they believe is in their children’s best interests against people who want to use those children against their parents to further their own ideological beliefs.

ELM327 · 05-11-2018 6:02pm

professore wrote: »

I work in IT and let's just say I encounter more people on the spectrum than in the average workplace. I find many with it are great to work with but less so when you go out to the pub as they just continue the same conversations that they were having at work. I remember one night in particular where this particular guy showed up and no one else did and it was the most painful hour I ever put in in my life. The guy had no ability to hold a conversation. Everything was "Yes" and "No" answers. I eventually made my excuses and left.

If your job involves anything to do with IT, Fintech, Coding or development or such like, you are likely to find a higher number of ASD people than normal.

I sound just like the guy you describe tbh, but I'm a little more self aware now.

CinemaGuy45 · 05-11-2018 6:04pm

ELM327 wrote: »

If your job involves anything to do with IT, Fintech, Coding or development or such like, you are likely to find a higher number of ASD people than normal.

I sound just like the guy you describe tbh, but I'm a little more self aware now.

ELM327 · 05-11-2018 6:05pm

Feck off!
Nah the difference is I wouldnt have gone to the work event in the first place to be honest

Sleeper12 · 05-11-2018 6:07pm

professore wrote:

Also I often go to events alone or with my older daughters as she and I are quite social and enjoy the whole thing. Ironically I come across as "shy" compared to her, as she tends to talk and talk in social situations as a coping mechanism, whereas I need to feel out the room first.

I'm going to U2 tonight in the Three Arena. I want to go as I like U2 and love music. Between now and 7pm I could back out. The slightest hint from my wife that she's tired ill jump on it so I won't have to go. The crowd I can cope with but 15,000 people all talking at the same time for 30 minutes before the show starts freaks me out no end. 15,000 people clapping is torture for me. I will go & it will be extremely stressful for me at times yet while the band play & no one is clapping its pure heaven

Mr.Wemmick · 05-11-2018 6:12pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm going to U2 tonight in the Three Arena. I want to go as I like U2 and love music. Between now and 7pm I could back out. The slightest hint from my wife that she's tired ill jump on it so I won't have to go. The crowd I can cope with but 15,000 people all talking at the same time for 30 minutes before the show starts freaks me out no end. 15,000 people clapping is torture for me. I will go & it will be extremely stressful for me at times yet while the band play & no one is clapping its pure heaven

Can you wear ear defenders that just look like a normal headphone set? You wouldn't look out of the ordinary wearing them at the start.. bands always take an age to come on stage.

Calhoun · 05-11-2018 6:13pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What do you suggest is done then with children and what Katherine Zappone would call “unsupportive parents”? The anti-vaxxers comparison isn’t helpful because that too is as mired in political ideologies as diagnoses of what are considered developmental disorders and other conditions regarding child development and children’s welfare.

I’m not falling into any anecdotal evidence trap. There’s mountains of evidence to support the fact that removing children from their parents causes children more harm than any good it’s perceived to have done. That’s exactly why it’s not regarded as best practice any more to do so. Of course the right care can have a positive impact, which is why I disagree with your idea that forcing parents into conforming to your ideological beliefs would not have a positive impact on their children’s welfare. When modern medicine and science are infested with ideologues who are more interested in promoting their ideology than they are in children’s welfare, then society suffers for their personal and political beliefs.

There are a group of parents out there who aren’t so much fearful of any stigma, but rather they are fighting on behalf of their children for what they believe is in their children’s best interests against people who want to use those children against their parents to further their own ideological beliefs.

Who said that we should institutionalize kids? this is something you are projecting using your own bias.

What i said is kids will end up having to be institutionalized long term because their parents cannot cope. Maybe its not a big deal to folk with Asperger but kids on the autism spectrum who aren't help communicate can turn very violent. I know of a case recently where a woman was looking for the government to take her son off her hands as she could not cope.

As for the comments on Zappone, i am not a big fan of hers and agree with you on the direction of the trans parents but what i would be an advocate for is a policy inclusive of parents that includes them in the process rather than excludes. I know in Ireland given the recent evidence that we may not be there yet but its something we can hope for that there is care that is inclusive of the family ect.

Sleeper12 · 05-11-2018 6:18pm

Mr.Wemmick wrote:

Can you wear ear defenders that just look like a normal headphone set? You wouldn't look out of the ordinary wearing them at the start.. bands always take an age to come on stage.

I have orange rubber ear plugs. I don't look out of place as most of the roadies & Arena staff ware them.

I'm the only person wearing plugs before & after the gig but not during it. As others plug in I plug out

eviltwin · 05-11-2018 7:07pm

Both of my children have Aspergers and it's not that big a deal for us. I've always said our children will not be treated any different because of it so it doesn't make much of an impact to our lives, or rather, we don't let it.

It can be tough at times, my son struggles in school and my daughter has an obsession with cleanliness that regularly leads to arguments but everyone has something don't they?

One eyed Jack · 05-11-2018 7:20pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Who said that we should institutionalize kids? this is something you are projecting using your own bias.

What i said is kids will end up having to be institutionalized long term because their parents cannot cope. Maybe its not a big deal to folk with Asperger but kids on the autism spectrum who aren't help communicate can turn very violent. I know of a case recently where a woman was looking for the government to take her son off her hands as she could not cope.

As for the comments on Zappone, i am not a big fan of hers and agree with you on the direction of the trans parents but what i would be an advocate for is a police inclusive of parents that includes them in the process rather than excludes. I know in Ireland given the recent evidence that we may not be there yet but its something we can hope for that there is care that is inclusive of the family ect.

The institutionalising of children is where I thought you were going because that’s what generally happens with children with disabilities and developmental disorders when the State steps in in the interests of the children’s welfare when the parents are deemed to be incapable of providing for the child’s needs. They’re institutionalised until they either age out of the system, or are transferred to an adult rehabilitative facility. They don’t go on to have any opportunities in life and the whole process has a detrimental effect on their mental health.

When I say I know where you’re coming from, I really do, as I worked with children and adults with autism and other developmental disorders and intellectual disabilities for a number of years. That’s why the whole ‘aspies’ stuff really ticks me off, because it’s like trying to put a cutsie positive spin on what is a developmental disorder, and also why the whole ‘spectrum’ stuff is, from my point of view at least, a load of bollocks. There’s no risk for example of an adult diagnosed with aspergers putting your head through the window of a transit van because you naively insist on offering him an apple he doesn’t want :pac:

It was definitely a learning experience, from the non-verbal guy who liked to click his fingers in time with the vibrations of the van as we were driving, to the guy who never stopped talking and had a thing for men in uniform

I met plenty of parents (many of them elderly themselves) who couldn’t cope with their adult children’s disabilities, but then I also met plenty of parents who could and didn’t want their children labelled. It wasn’t because of any stigma, but simply because they didn’t regard their children in terms of what other people would see as a disability.

I just don’t agree with the current trend to pathologise children with an A to Z of clinical diagnoses which the criteria are being broadened all the time to include more children in this ‘spectrum’ of disorders from mental health disorders to developmental disorders, and there is a growing tendency among some parents to want to have their children diagnosed with something for which the parents can say ‘everything makes sense now’, and while it’s not so prevalent here in this country, in larger populations like the US and the UK it’s rife among certain demographics who have a propensity to want the medical and psychiatric professionals to agree with their diagnosis of their children’s behaviours because being ‘aspie’ or having ‘aspie’ children is trendy among that particular social demographic nowadays, quite the opposite of any perceived stigma about developmental disorders, it’s like it’s regarded as a badge of honour.

Hammer89 · 05-11-2018 7:40pm

I met a man with Aspergers in the United Kingdom earlier this year. We were staying at the same hostel. He'd hug me whenever I left the room, even if it was just for a cigarette. I thought it was weird at first, but eventually thought it was pretty sweet.

He was completely obsessed with heavy-duty machinery, like ferries and the trains and stuff like that. I made the mistake of mentioning that I went on the HSS when I was little, and half-an-hour later he's still talking about how it was such an amazing ship. It's really quite remarkable how much he knows about the HSS - the speed, the capacity - and his memory was second to none. He's about 40, but he and his family travelled to Ireland on the HSS when he was a kid, and he still remembered how to pronounce Dun Laoghaire, and he knew how to navigate around the town, from being there once 30 years ago. Phenomenal.

He was a lovely, lovely guy really. I accidentally gave him a panic attack, because he wished me Happy Birthday about a month before the actual event, because he wouldn't be around to say it in person, but then remarked that it was bad luck in Germany to do that. "Great, so if my plane crashes I know who to blame," I say, just messing, but he started getting super nervous at the thought of him accidentally causing my death.

He'd sit in the common room of the hostel, listening to heavy metal music on his phone and carefully unwrapping bits of RAM that he'd bought in CEX, as if he was unwrapping C4 or something. For such an intelligent and knowledgeable lad, he'd very often forget what he was talking about though, which I found interesting. I imagine his brain is constantly functioning at a higher level than mine at all times, so trains of thought can occasionally get a bit scrambled. I don't know if that's the science but it made sense to me.

Anyway, to my knowledge Colin is the first Aspergers sufferer I've ever met. I don't know if he is the atypical person with the condition, but if he is then I certainly wouldn't hold any negative prejudice toward them.

05-11-2018 7:47pm

professore wrote: »

I remember one night in particular where this particular guy showed up and no one else did and it was the most painful hour I ever put in in my life. The guy had no ability to hold a conversation. Everything was "Yes" and "No" answers. I eventually made my excuses and left.

I must say, this is one of the best AH threads I've seen in a long time- great examples and discussions going on- very informative.

@professore- a very similar experience to you. I used to meet up with a group of wider friends and acquaintances at events like weddings where there was this one person, who i invariably found myself sitting beside for a considerable time.

He worked in IT but to say he was monosyllabic would be generous- not just to me, just to people in general.

He just seemed very happy to sit there and say and do very little. What got me is I always felt bad thinking he didn't like me or was being ignorant- but I've heard since that just his way.

After reading this thread today, I thought of him and I really do feel, that he's on the spectrum in some way.

While the cause of Aspergers and Autism in general doesn't seem to be well defined, (although there is some genetic links i think in some cases) I understand that the older you are having a baby, the more the chances are that they will have it? Anyone have stats on that?

I know 4 couples out of my circle of friends - all had babies in their late 30's who have been now diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum- I thought this was quite unusual.

Early diagnosis is key in terms of starting appropriate treatments/therapies but also for the sanity of the parents. I spotted the signs in one of my friends kids at 18 months- I didn't mention it to the parents at the time as I felt it wasn't my place. They only started considering autism as a possibility in the last 6 months with the child well past 4 years of age.

gormdubhgorm · 05-11-2018 8:09pm

I thought about this thread where the OP asked if people with Aspergers were perceived as annoying weirdos.
The the OP belatedly revealed that he has Aspergers and it was an 'experiment' on his part.
The OP then totted up the number of thanks his original post got (prejudiced to aspergers) v another post (non-prejudiced to Aspergers).

Ironically this information is a truer reflection of an 'experiment' as you now have to ask yourself do you find the OP's behaviour annoying as you did not know you were part of an experiment?

paleoperson · 05-11-2018 8:22pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought about this thread where the OP asked if people with Aspergers were perceived as annoying weirdos.
The the OP belatedly revealed that he has Aspergers and it was an 'experiment' on his part.
The OP then totted up the number of thanks his original post got (prejudiced to aspergers) v another post (non-prejudiced to Aspergers).

Ironically this information is a truer reflection of an 'experiment' as you now have to ask yourself do you find the OP's behaviour annoying as you did not know you were part of an experiment?

I lose all respect for and interest in someone immediately when they try to trick or deceive me like that.

I am very much against any kind of "experiments" where some people are being deceived. I think they're wrong and at best pointless.

Wanderer78 · 05-11-2018 8:24pm

paleoperson wrote: »

I lose all respect for and interest in someone immediately when they try to trick or deceive me like that.

I am very much against any kind of "experiments" where some people are being deceived. I think they're wrong and at best pointless.

you must get very upset with the marketing and advertisement industry

paleoperson · 05-11-2018 8:26pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you must get very upset with the marketing and advertisement industry

Why, do they do something like that?

Wanderer78 · 05-11-2018 8:28pm

paleoperson wrote: »

Why, do they do something like that?

experimentation of deception! oh yea, big time!

Riesen_Meal · 05-11-2018 8:36pm

My cousin has Asperger's, he was only diagnosed with it at the age of 28 I think, before that we were all convinced (and the doctors) he was dyslexic, he sat a dyslexic junior and leaving cert as thats what the diagnosis was, his writing and grammar was terrible, he always struggled with certain things like that..

He goes through phases in his life, one minute he is the biggest Trekkie you would ever meet and was borderline obsessed with Star Trek growing up, the next week he is a goth and wearing 3/4 length leather jackets and makeup... (at 37!)

He has a fairly normal life as it stands, he's a tradesman, works all his life, has a chick, who was a bit young for him when they first got together but she seems to get him, all in all he is fairly happy in his bubble...

I get the part about empathy, I think sometimes he does not know what he does be at and can get confused with himself...

If you met him you would just think he was odd, a strange kettle of fish, he is very mannerly and really nice and chatty etc...

I don't think of him as handicapped or anything of the sort, I just think you take him as he is...

What is your impression of Aspergers syndrome?

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