What is your impression of Aspergers syndrome?

AndrewJRenko

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No.
It's not possible to diagnose over the phone. They need to see the patient. They look out for mannerisms, tics, eye contact etc.
There are standard tests that have to be done.

Even if someone gave a bogus diagnosis the health board carrys out their own tests eventually. The medical governing body would quickly weed out any giving false diagnosis for cash. They would treat this in the same way as a doctor selling valium to people who shouldn't have it.

It was reported to me by people involved in the sector, maybe about five years ago. And yes, they were well aware of the need to see the patient in person, which was a major concern.

I think the NCSE and schools were obliged to accept the findings of the diagnosis in assessing provision of supports at the time.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

It was reported to me by people involved in the sector, maybe about five years ago. And yes, they were well aware of the need to see the patient in person, which was a major concern.

I think you will find that they were wrong or simply made it up.

You'd have to have been through a diagnosis to understand that it's laughable to suggest that an over the phone is possible. It takes hours of face to face to be diagnosed.

tretorn

There is a film about living with Autism on in the IFI this Thursday (I think)

Mutant z

Sheldon Cooper.

Sleeper12

Mutant z wrote:

Sheldon Cooper.

Strange thing about Sheldons character is they have never come outright & said that he is autistic. They leave it up to the viewers to decide. Many watching this for over 10 years would be supprised to be told that he is autistic. They just see him as odd.

DublinWriter

Cutting a really, really long story short, my son was diagnosed as being on the spectrum aged three.

As a parent, you tend to blame yourself for everything. We tried to find out what happened - too much Aspartame? Not enough folic acid? Was it the 4D scan?

I took the Baron-Cohen AQ Test myself for a joke and scored really highly, meaning I'm effectively Aspergers myself.

It was only when my son started exhibiting certain traits that it unlocked memories of me doing the same things. From minor things such as running out of the room when the ads came on the TV, hand-washing, obsession with certain subjects, etc.

ABM (Advanced Behaviour Modification) was the key for him at that age.

I had a similar thing in the 70's - corporal punishment.

I 'script', i.e. watch people to see the ideal way to react in certain social circumstances and try and emulate myself. I find making eye contact almost to be physically painful, yet I've trained myself to do it over the years and sometimes I just need to pretend by looking at the speakers nose or mouth.

Zorya

wexie wrote: »

I don't know if that's all about the labels though, I think it might be more to do with the fact that people are uncomfortable with the unknown or different.

Once you can slap a label on something (or someone) it's no longer unknown, it's no a known quantity. Problem is many people end up with labels that are a poor fit or just plain wrong.

I think we (as a society) could do with focusing on just accepting 'different' and offering support where needed rather than putting labels on everything. And I do mean everything, everywhere you look it seems there are efforts being made to classify and quantify people, gender, politics, mental health etc. etc. etc.

I agree, wexie

Zorya

Mutant z wrote: »

Sheldon Cooper.

Bus pants. Surely you understand the need for bus pants?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbb66RM4NLs

begbysback

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Don't believe that for a second many stay single not a good way for breeding up their numbers.;)

The evolution angle of Aspergers is very interesting - my understanding is that those with some level of aspergers seem of a single nature given that they don't feel the social pressure of getting into a relationship for the sake of it, as many "normal" people would - not that they are incapable of it, far from the truth.

30 or 40+ years ago you could put forward the case that aspies were outcasts in society and therefore didn't appeal to the opposite sex, nowadays these are some of the most successful people in the world, and as such it could be argued that they are more appealing to the opposite sex, therefore increasing chances of passing on these genes.

Zorya

DublinWriter wrote: »

Cutting a really, really long story short, my son was diagnosed as being on the spectrum aged three.

As a parent, you tend to blame yourself for everything. We tried to find out what happened - too much Aspartame? Not enough folic acid? Was it the 4D scan?

I took the Baron-Cohen AQ Test myself for a joke and scored really highly, meaning I'm effectively Aspergers myself.

It was only when my son started exhibiting certain traits that it unlocked memories of me doing the same things. From minor things such as running out of the room when the ads came on the TV, hand-washing, obsession with certain subjects, etc.

ABM (Advanced Behaviour Modification) was the key for him at that age.

I had a similar thing in the 70's - corporal punishment.

I 'script', i.e. watch people to see the ideal way to react in certain social circumstances and try and emulate myself. I find making eye contact almost to be physically painful, yet I've trained myself to do it over the years and sometimes I just need to pretend by looking at the speakers nose or mouth.

Glad to hear your son is doing well.

I have this thing where I find that a lot of what is called aspergers (or other non-coping syndromes like ADHD etc) seems to me to be somehow quite a reasonable reaction to an abnormal situation. If you think about it the modern world as we know it is reasonably recent in evolutionary terms, and perhaps some people just feel inherently profoundly uncomfortable with certain modern aspects of life.

We evolved to be comfortable with small groups of well known, familiar people, and now in modern times we are thrust into large crowds regularly of people completely unknown to us, and we also have the constant awareness via media of the unimaginable press of other human beings on the planet - something of which few would have been aware through the whole time of our evolution.

We are surrounded by machinery and electronic devices, and the refresh rates on digital monitors can be very disconcerting to some, likewise TV stimulation is a reasonably new aspect of human life (in evolutionary terms). These make some people feel uncomfortable - and I do not specifically think this is abnormal - perhaps the people who are impervious to the hyper stimulation are the ones who have the problem, perhaps they are deficient in some areas of perception or vision etc?

We run our lives on ridiculous schedules regarding school and work, with little allowance made for human rhythms, natural cycles, the environment, our very existence as creatures bound intrinscially to a natural ecosystem. Some people find that stressful. Perhaps they are not the ones who have the problem? perhaps the people who can shut down enough to accommodate the basic fundamental insanity of modern life are the ones with the problem?

Our food is adulterated, our furniture, clothing, hygiene products, general purchases etc are often full of chemicals and weird stuff - maybe the people who react to this are the ones whose senses are working normally? Optimally even?

These are just some examples of a half maddened civilisation, which has little metaphysical grounding in the sense of a true quest for meaning and which almost has forgotten its raison d'etre, a civilisation based on mindless consumption, pleasure seeking, gauche materialism etc., and we wonder why we have more and more people who just feel like their electric circuits are fried from the inexplicable weirdness of it all.

Just a thought

ayux4rj6zql2ph

What are some of the obsessions/fixations that those diagnosed have?

Mine, numbers, anything to do with dates,times,reg numbers,phone numbers etc etc. I have been branded very very weird for it.

Sleeper12

Konnor Blue Gate wrote:

What are some of the obsessions/fixations that those diagnosed have?

I d have any myself but I throw myself 110 percent into things like my Business.

My son gets fixated on something for months or years and then drops that fixation & moves on to another one.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I d have any myself but I throw myself 110 percent into things like my Business.

My son gets fixated on something for months or years and then drops that fixation & moves on to another one.

I would be similar to your son in some areas.

Fair play on the business though

Sleeper12

Konnor Blue Gate wrote:

Fair play on the business though

If you are to be fixated on something why not something that tu a profit

god's toy

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I know your being sarcastic but the funny thing is your right.
Inane babbling about football scores and did ya see the state of ya man last night and so on.

Edit and they go on for ages talking a lot and saying very little.

Oh believe me. I know that only too well. But thankfully not all.

begbysback

Konnor Blue Gate wrote: »

What are some of the obsessions/fixations that those diagnosed have?

Mine, numbers, anything to do with dates,times,reg numbers,phone numbers etc etc. I have been branded very very weird for it.

Counting the duplicate posts

Seriously though, flags, numbers, avoiding cracks in the ground, games, punctuality, rules, generally how stuff works - apathy for locations, you will never find an aspie driving a taxi

One eyed Jack

wexie wrote: »

Things have changed a little since whatever days you were in school though haven't they OEJ?

What if, in order for you to get the necessary supports to stay and succeed in a mainstream school it would have been necessary for you to have a diagnosis?

Cause that is the situation some parents find themselves in these days, child needs some extra help and support in school (for whatever reason that may be) and they're not likely to get it without a diagnosis.

While I believe that is not a good situation, I also think when that situation arises it's more important for the child to get those supports. Ideally of course that should be happening without a potentially harmful diagnosis being slapped on the child but sadly that's not really the current reality.

While I believe that parents should receive every support necessary for their children to be educated in a mainstream school if that’s what the parents want, I find that State interventionist policies like the type that Calhoun was leaning towards are targeted almost exclusively at parents and their children on the lowest socioeconomic rungs of the social ladder.

I don’t believe that forcing diagnoses on children is spite of their parents is ever actually acting in the best interests of children. More often than not these policies are motivated by a political ideology than any genuine concern for children’s welfare.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

begbysback wrote: »

Counting the duplicate posts

Seriously though, flags, numbers, avoiding cracks in the ground, games, punctuality, rules, generally how stuff works - apathy for locations, you will never find an aspie driving a taxi

Very similar to myself there. You’re right I couldn’t be a taxi driver.

wexie

Zorya wrote: »

We run our lives on ridiculous schedules regarding school and work, with little allowance made for human rhythms, natural cycles, the environment, our very existence as creatures bound intrinscially to a natural ecosystem. Some people find that stressful. Perhaps they are not the ones who have the problem? perhaps the people who can shut down enough to accommodate the basic fundamental insanity of modern life are the ones with the problem?

Our food is adulterated, our furniture, clothing, hygiene products, general purchases etc are often full of chemicals and weird stuff - maybe the people who react to this are the ones whose senses are working normally? Optimally even?

While I personally think you may well be right in that assessment as it's largely how I feel about things, I'd also have to point out to you 'they' aren't the ones experiencing the problems are they?

Regardless of whether or not our societies and lives are structured in a completely bizarre way the fact remains that it is how they are structured.

It's not going to change so your options are essentially to either adjust and somehow learn to cope, or don't.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you are to be fixated on something why not something that tu a profit

You’ll retire wealthy

Zorya

wexie wrote: »

While I personally think you may well be right in that assessment as it's largely how I feel about things, I'd also have to point out to you 'they' aren't the ones experiencing the problems are they?

Regardless of whether or not our societies and lives are structured in a completely bizarre way the fact remains that it is how they are structured.

It's not going to change so your options are essentially to either adjust and somehow learn to cope, or don't.

I do think there will come a time when more and more people will look up and ask what the hell is going on here? Why are we living like this? Maybe our kids cannot cope?



Even in the past couple of years in Ireland the roads are like lunatic asylums, and people are working every hour of the day to afford identikit doll houses in commuter belt estates, hardly seeing their children from one end of the week to the other. The fact that things are structured that way now does not mean that at some point we cannot change that, or that at least we should be regularly reminding ourselves of the insanity.

There are choices even within the status quo. Less money. Less hours working. Less THINGS. Less screens. Less rushing around like a blue arsed fly. More time with people you love, your children. More time with yourself.

Move if needs be, go live in the sticks. It all goes by very fast.

professore

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I didn't know and until you said that it did not occur to me.
Spend my life making social gaffs without meaning to and I know I meant no harm so I ain't going to apologise or feel guilty.

Spent enough of my life replaying social mistakes and gaffs in my head and feeling awful.
In fact, it has caused suicidal thoughts many times.

I know I meant no harm so I am not got to worry torture myself or give a fcuk anymore.

As a small bit of advice it just works better for us NTs to apologise and explain and then stop talking. My wife was recently diagnosed and she does the same thing, keeps talking after she apologises and ends up saying she has nothing to apologise for. While technically correct, it doesn't make her easier to like.

It took both out daughters saying what I'd been saying for years for her to finally look into it.

And even the most NT people make social gaffes in unfamiliar situations. There are lots of flexible rules of conduct in social situations, I know, I've tried to make up some for my wife and failed miserably.

One of her issues is either coming across rude or overly friendly in social interactions. Also playing the same 3 songs on a loop all day long. Drives me nuts.

She's lovely though, extremely intelligent and a very honest person. Wouldn't change her for the world.

Calhoun

skepticalme wrote: »

Autism diagnosis cannot be bought, really annoys me when people suggest it can or that parents want a diagnosis. In reality services are minimal to non existent and parents end up paying for as much private therapy as they can afford.
The common trait I think running through people with asd is anxiety which can affect them horrendously and if not helped can lead to depression, self harm etc.
I think people with no experience of dealing with asd don't realise that even 'mild' asd involves huge challenges for those affected.

Hold on i was the one that implied that there was a psychiatrist making it difficult for people to get proper diagnosis and i stand over it. Our own private diagnosis was rejected because of the cowboy practices of certain folk looking to make a quick buck.

That may not be palatable to you but its the reality of the situation and its why parts of the HSE will only recognize if you go through their recommended service.

Calhoun

One eyed Jack wrote: »

While I do understand where you’re coming from, I think a loaded statement like that is quite frankly ludicrous, on a number of levels.

It’s not about neglecting children, it’s about rejecting the pathologisation of what the parents consider normal behaviours. If parents are considered to be neglecting their children because they don’t want their children being labelled with various conditions, then that does make way for the State to intervene and supplant the authority of the parents if they are successful in arguing that it is in the children’s best interests to do so (and they are indeed usually successful).

If for example, my mother had followed the advice she was given by experts at the time when I was diagnosed as a child with severe dyslexia, I imagine my life would have taken a very different path had my mother actually taken their advice and enrolled me in a ‘special’ school, instead of keeping me in a mainstream school. If the State had intervened and successfully argued that I should be taken into care and enrolled in a special school, that’s exactly where you’re heading when you would have determined that my parents were guilty of child neglect from your perspective.

They certainly weren’t, not from my perspective, and that’s why it was fairly annoying when I had my own child and plenty of clueless but well-meaning types pathologising his every behaviour, analysing his behaviours to the nth degree and suggesting all sorts of conditions, top of the list of course came aspergers and transgenderism. Still think neglecting your children because you don’t want them labelled should be regarded on the same level as people who refuse to vaccinate their children? I’ve no doubt Katherine Zappine for one will be only too happy to hear it.

Well i think your wrong but you don't have to agree with me. In my view if my child badly breaks their leg i am not qualified to make sure they get the right care.

Parents are the ones with the hangup's regarding labels and medical care, they should be trying to take get the best care for their children so the long term outcome is great and the child does not end up in an institution.

Also i don't think i need to point out the parallels between ones personal beliefs in both cases and medical evidence but i will.

fyfe79

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s obviously a modern diagnosis which pathologises what would previously have been considered normal human behaviour. That’s not to suggest people who are diagnosed with the condition are faking it, but making the point that the criteria for the diagnosis of the condition are so broad that practically anyone could be diagnosed with aspergers syndrome.

One of the things I constantly hear promoted about the disorder is the observation that people diagnosed with aspergers syndrome are unusually highly intelligent in one way or another, and it’s not from clinicians I hear this but ordinary people who are self-diagnosing themselves as having aspergers, or parents who identify their children as having aspergers or displaying characteristics of behaviour they typically associate with autism. It reminds me of the myth which I thought had been debunked a long time ago when people who were autistic were portrayed as savants, the reality of course being that savants are as rare in people who are autistic as they are in the general population.

The idea that medicine and science are getting better at diagnoses of neurological and developmental disorders like autism and aspergers and that’s why we’re seeing such a dramatic rise in people diagnosed with these conditions, is eventually going to get to the point where what were once considered atypical characteristics are actually normal behaviours that should probably never have been pathologised and categorised as atypical behaviour when they’re as common among a population as they are.

I’ve often thought about this – what is the tipping point? There seems to be more and more people diagnosed. At what point will be percentage of the western world diagnosed with AS or Autism lead to a discussion of “well actually, AS and Autism seems to be quite normal human behaviour since so many people display the traits”? It could be just another facet of human existence and not a ‘disorder’ at all.

skepticalme

Calhoun wrote: »

Hold on i was the one that implied that there was a psychiatrist making it difficult for people to get proper diagnosis and i stand over it. Our own private diagnosis was rejected because of the cowboy practices of certain folk looking to make a quick buck.

That may not be palatable to you but its the reality of the situation and its why parts of the HSE will only recognize if you go through their recommended service.

Have you heard of any of this psychiatrists diagnosis being retracted by the hse assessment when they eventually get around to it, because I don't think that is happening.
The hse are rejecting private diagnosis in some areas, not because the diagnosis is wrong but because their waiting lists are so long. Children under 5 might see early intervention after hse assessment a few times only before they are moved to the school age team, where they wait years for an appointment which is only an assessment of their difficulties. There is hardly any hse help. Parents are paying privately for whatever therapy they can afford.

CinemaGuy45

Carla Victorious Cane wrote: »

Two people I've watched programmes about recently - The Unabomber and Vincent Van Gogh - apparently said this also: a feeling of being "outside" the standard social world, and trying to get in but encountering an impenetrable barrier.

Don't want to claim the fukcer as one of our own however will take Van Gogh.:D

Calhoun

skepticalme wrote: »

Have you heard of any of this psychiatrists diagnosis being retracted by the hse assessment when they eventually get around to it, because I don't think that is happening.
The hse are rejecting private diagnosis in some areas, not because the diagnosis is wrong but because their waiting lists are so long. Children under 5 might see early intervention after hse assessment a few times only before they are moved to the school age team, where they wait years for an appointment which is only an assessment of their difficulties. There is hardly any hse help. Parents are paying privately for whatever therapy they can afford.

I have not heard of them retracting a diagnosis but i have heard of them not recognizing diagnosis from psychiatrists who aren't following a multi-disciplinary diagnosis.

Tell me something i don't know, i have a daughter who is exactly 5 going through the system right now and i can tell you its not been made any easier by certain diagnosis muddying the water.

CinemaGuy45

I got a private diagnosis about 7 years ago not that I have ever needed to use it for anything at my age it has just made sense of my life somewhat.

As regards the HSE I applied about 8 years ago still waiting to hear back.:rolleyes:

wexie

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

As regards the HSE I applied about 8 years ago still waiting to hear back.:rolleyes:

If my experiences with HSE adult mental health care are anything to go by you could end up with a diagnosis of being French