Madeleine McCann

smelly sock · 04-11-2018 08:06PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The evidence of abduction is that the little girl is gone.

smelly sock · 04-11-2018 08:13PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

redshoes15 wrote: »

I absolutely don’t think they have suffered enough no. They contributed to the losing of their child. In my opinion they should have been arrested and charged with child endangerment/child neglect and/or child abandonment. The 7 other people who dined with them should also have faced the same charges. Yes, I believe if this had been John and Tracey Smith from Bristol who were not doctors/middle class they would have been torn through the courts and vilified by the media from the outset of the case first breaking(and rightly so).

Nutcase kind of comments.

limnam · 04-11-2018 08:13PM

smelly sock wrote: »

The evidence of abduction is that the little girl is gone.

Thanks Sherlock.

redshoes15 · 04-11-2018 08:17PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Nutcase kind of comments.

Nutcase comments because you disagree?

smelly sock · 04-11-2018 08:18PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

Thanks Sherlock.

And the evidence that the parents didnt do anything is there is no body. And no evidence that points at them. Apart from whack jobs on youtube and boards.

MonkieSocks · 04-11-2018 08:41PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p10p2653-2660l

DNA Testing

Samples collected in the living room of the apartment 5A, block A, Ocean Club, tourist resort - Praia da Luz, Lagos, on August 1st, 2007, following the examination carried out by a British specialist dog team. Delivery note no. 286/2007 - CR/L):

Objects attributed to the Apartment 5A of the Ocean Club

86/2007-CRL (1) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 1
A DNA result by LCN, that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex for a meaningful interpretation, was obtained from the cellular material collected from these floor tiles.

286/2007-CRL (2) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 2
An inconclusive, incomplete DNA result, consisting of only some unconfirmed DNA components, was obtained from the cellular material recovered from the edges of floor-tile 2 from the apartment floor. The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material recovered from the larger area of floor-tile 2 was unfruitful, given that it was not possible to obtain any DNA profile. These samples were then subjected to LCN analysis.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material in an area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, there is not any positive proof that supports the theory of any of the members of the McCann family to have contributed DNA to this result. A DNA result was obtained through LCN consistent with only one DNA component from a second area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, this component leaves no room for any other interpretation.

286/2007-CRL (3) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 3
The attempts to a DNA profile from any cellular material in two areas of this floor-tile were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 10

A DNA result that consisted of only some DNA components was obtained through LCN analysis of cellular material recovered from one area of floor-tile 3. In my opinion, this result left no room for any other interpretation. The attempt made the obtain a DNA profile through LCN from a second area of floor-tile 3 was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained.

286/2007-CRL (4) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 4
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these floor-tiles. In my opinion, this resuly contained information too meagre [scanty/poor] to permit a meaningful comparison.

286/2007-CRL (5) Pieces of floor-tile identified close to number 1
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through the LCN technique from some cellular material present in swabs collected from the marks [spots] 1, 2 and 3 were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained.

286/2007-CRL (6) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 1
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from these objects.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 11

286/2007-CRL (7) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 2
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (8) Pieces of skirting board identified as numbers 2 and 3
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (9) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 3
A DNA result that contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (10) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 4
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 12

286/2007-CRL (11) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 1
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (12) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 4
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects.
In my opinion, there exists no proof that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.

286/2007-CRL (13) Residual/small fragments in the area of the skirting board.
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (14) Dust/small fragments in the area of the floor tiles
This object was not adequate to perform DNA profile tests.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 13

286/2007-CRL (15) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (16) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 1
A DNA profile that did not match any [of the five members] of the McCann family was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area.

286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2
A DNA profile that appeared to be from at least two sources was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area. In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques. Breaking [departing] from the principle, for it to have had a DNA contribution from Lino Henriques then the remaining information in the smaller part of the result is too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.

286/2007-CRL (18) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 3
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 14

286/2007-CRL (19) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 4
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (20) Fragments of floor tile and grouting
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (21) Fragments of bush/shrubbery
Insofar as it relates to this sample, the examination performed was aimed at the detection of the possible presence of blood, no trace thereof having been found. Particles from the superficial surface layer were recovered and preserved in a way similar to that of hairs and fibres. In my opinion, the capillary roots were not good quality as they were not adequate to perform DNA profile tests.

286/2007-CRL (22, 23 e 24) Oral swabs for elimination
A new deposition to report the examination of these objects will be presented at a future time along with the DNA profiles obtained to date from all the DNA results relating to this case.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 15

286A/2007-CRL 1A & B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual but not matching any other profile obtained in this case, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.

286A/2007-CRL 2A & B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two people, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 16

A low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3B).
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 4A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a female individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 17

286A/2007-CRL 6A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

286A/2007-CRL 7A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 8A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

286A/2007-CRL 9A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. Also, this result did not match in any way the profile obtained from swabs 286A/2007 CRL 1A & B.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 18

286A/2007-CRL 10A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 11A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286A/2007-CRL 12A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there is no evidence that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 19

286A/2007-CRL 13A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286A/2007-CRL 14A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
Weak and incomplete DNA results consisting only of some unconfirmed DNA components were obtained from the cellular material present in these wet and dry swabs. In my opinion the results are not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

A mixed, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in each of the swabs.
In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 20

286A/2007-CRL 15A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
A weak and incomplete DNA result showing indications as having come from more than one person was obtained from the cellular material present in dry swab (15A) effected on the rear of the sofa. In my opinion the result is not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

A DNA result, apparently originating from at least three persons of whom at least two were male and contributed the majority of the DNA, was obtained from the cellular material present in the wet swab (15B) effected on the rear of the sofa.
In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result, comprising only some DNA components, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the dry swab (15A).
In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

Charmeleon · 04-11-2018 09:02PM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p10p2653-2660l

DNA Testing

Samples collected in the living room of the apartment 5A, block A, Ocean Club, tourist resort - Praia da Luz, Lagos, on August 1st, 2007, following the examination carried out by a British specialist dog team. Delivery note no. 286/2007 - CR/L):

The dogs detect traces of bodily fluid, most of which do not contain DNA. For blood samples for example, only the white blood cells contain DNA. Dead skin cells that fall off continuously do not preserve DNA. A negative DNA test does not invalidate the dog indications.

The well-known ‘CSI Effect’ leads people to believe that crimes result in DNA all over the place. That’s rarely the case.

The dogs are trained and tested to detect bodily fluids on objects and surfaces that have been washed and therefore are highly unlikely to contain traces of DNA.

goat2 · 04-11-2018 09:17PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

One of the main defences of the McCanns is why they would continue to campaign for sightings of Madeline.

I've been thinking about this today. Look at it from their point of view - if they stopped, would the public response be "why have they stopped looking for her?" The finger of suspicion would be turned on them, so they kept going and going and going.

They have scaled it back in recent years and it seems to me that the finger of suspicion is turning to them. The recent BBC mini-series "The Cry" bore so many similarities to their case: an accidental death of a child, a cover-up and a media campaign to divert suspicion.

Is it at all credible to believe an opportunistic paedophile or child trafficker wandered past their apartment that night, somehow knew the children were alone, mooched in and lifted a three-year old girl from her bed in total silence and carried her away, without a shred of evidence left. No witnesses, no dna, no nothing.

Or is the police's version of events more credible. That a sedated Madeline critically injured herself falling in the apartment, was discovered by her father, carried away and hidden or buried and a cover-up instigated. The child's favourite toy washed in a washing machine, mobile phone records on the night deleted and not a second spent by either parent looking for their daughter, not one second.

It has happened before, Jon Benet Ramsey, and another in America, she was found, and a Boy that found that he was being searched for also

Ash.J.Williams · 04-11-2018 09:30PM

Until the case is solved I'd give the mccans the benefit of the doubt. They are definitely lacking in emotional iq and their reactions in public and in the media certainly don't help them but only inhuman monsters could disappear they're own kid and until we find out the truth I couldnt imagine they'd do such a thing.

chicorytip · 04-11-2018 09:56PM

Something Else

tupenny wrote: »

There's zero evidence of an abduction.
Personally think parents are full of guilt. Didnt purposely do it but covering up ever since. An awful accident

That scenario is unbelieveable for two reasons. They could not have hidden, removed and then disposed of the childs body without arousing some suspicion or without some trace of her remains being discovered in the general region - the geography of which neither were that familiar with. Secondly, does anybody believe it possible to maintain a facade of innocence for so long without being found out? There is simply not a shred of evidence that suggests they were responsible for her disappearance.

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 10:08PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Sereneone wrote: »

Amaral remained living in Portugal. He was never fired from the police force, he eventually resigned, so there is/was no question of him being re-hired/re-instated.

....but he didn’t sue the McCanns for defamation of character.
Because for defamation you have to have had a good “name” to begin with, and the allegations must be untrue, so that’s no good to him...

Charmeleon · 04-11-2018 10:11PM

chicorytip wrote: »

That scenario is unbelieveable for two reasons. They could not have hidden, removed and then disposed of the childs body without arousing some suspicion or without some trace of her remains being discovered in the general region - the geography of which neither were that familiar with. Secondly, does anybody believe it possible to maintain a facade of innocence for so long without being found out? There is simply not a shred of evidence that suggests they were responsible for her disappearance.

There was a witness who made a statement to the Gardaí and then the Portuguese police that he was almost certain he saw Gerry McCann walking with a child draped over his shoulder towards the beach. The e-fit of this man was created by the McCann investigators but was not released until Scotland Yard obtained it years later.

ozzy jr · 04-11-2018 10:31PM

Something Else

chicorytip wrote: »

Secondly, does anybody believe it possible to maintain a facade of innocence for so long without being found out?

Yeah.

People do it all the time, not necessarily after their child goes missing, but people lie all the time. Some are really good at it too, regardless of evidence against them. Lance Armstrong springs to mind, Jimmy Saville another. Every politician that's ever lived

Sereneone · 04-11-2018 10:33PM

splinter65 wrote: »

....but he didn’t sue the McCanns for defamation of character.
Because for defamation you have to have had a good “name” to begin with, and the allegations must be untrue, so that’s no good to him...

His book, the subject of the McCanns lengthy legal proceedings against him, was based solely on the contents of the investigation files which were made public - an "easy read" version of the files. This has always been his claim and this was agreed and endorsed by the Supreme Court ruling, the most recent court ruling in the case.

Perhaps not everything comes down to money for all involved in this case. Perhaps he is not bothered what anonymous people on the internet think of his "name". Perhaps he is happy in the knowledge he did what he could at the time to find a lost child and perhaps he actually knows what happened but never got the chance to prove it. Only he can answer those questions.

the_pen_turner · 04-11-2018 10:59PM

Something Else

chicorytip wrote: »

That scenario is unbelieveable for two reasons. They could not have hidden, removed and then disposed of the childs body without arousing some suspicion or without some trace of her remains being discovered in the general region - the geography of which neither were that familiar with. Secondly, does anybody believe it possible to maintain a facade of innocence for so long without being found out? There is simply not a shred of evidence that suggests they were responsible for her disappearance.

what about joseph fritzel . he locked up and killed some of his kids. did all kinds of horrible things to them. nobody suspected him and he kept the act up for 20 years even fooling his wife

just because 99% of people could never do things like that doesnt mean they couldnt or didnt

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 11:12PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

redshoes15 wrote: »

I absolutely don’t think they have suffered enough no. They contributed to the losing of their child. In my opinion they should have been arrested and charged with child endangerment/child neglect and/or child abandonment. The 7 other people who dined with them should also have faced the same charges. Yes, I believe if this had been John and Tracey Smith from Bristol who were not doctors/middle class they would have been torn through the courts and vilified by the media from the outset of the case first breaking(and rightly so).

What a load of rubbish. How bitter you must be after 12 years that this still annoys you. Your hopes and dreams of seeing a destroyed family dragged through the criminal justice system came to nothing. Boohoo.
Maybe if you bring a bigger pitchfork to the next lynching you’ll get some satisfaction there.

splinter65 · 04-11-2018 11:24PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ozzy jr wrote: »

Yeah.

People do it all the time, not necessarily after their child goes missing, but people lie all the time. Some are really good at it too, regardless of evidence against them. Lance Armstrong springs to mind, Jimmy Saville another. Every politician that's ever lived

So all the people who sat down to eat that night, the Tapas 7, have all managed to keep this terrible secret, the most terrible secret anyone could possibly have, for 12 years.
Despite merciless scrutiny from the press and the public.
Not one of them ever let one iota slip.
Not to anyone. Not in a row. No ones conscience was pricked. Ever.
Not a word.
So. 7 psychotics all just happened to go on holiday together.
7 people know where the body of the most famous missing child ever is and none of them have ever cracked.

You do know how insane this is, surely?

Cyrus T Buford · 04-11-2018 11:38PM

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

So all the people who sat down to eat that night, the Tapas 7, have all managed to keep this terrible secret, the most terrible secret anyone could possibly have, for 12 years.
Despite merciless scrutiny from the press and the public.
Not one of them ever let one iota slip.
Not to anyone. Not in a row. No ones conscience was pricked. Ever.
Not a word.
So. 7 psychotics all just happened to go on holiday together.
7 people know where the body of the most famous missing child ever is and none of them have ever cracked.

You do know how insane this is, surely?

Who said ALL of the Tapas 7 were involved?

ozzy jr · 04-11-2018 11:39PM

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

So all the people who sat down to eat that night, the Tapas 7, have all managed to keep this terrible secret, the most terrible secret anyone could possibly have, for 12 years.
Despite merciless scrutiny from the press and the public.
Not one of them ever let one iota slip.
Not to anyone. Not in a row. No ones conscience was pricked. Ever.
Not a word.
So. 7 psychotics all just happened to go on holiday together.
7 people know where the body of the most famous missing child ever is and none of them have ever cracked.

You do know how insane this is, surely?

Steady on there. I answered a general question......

Secondly, does anybody believe it possible to maintain a facade of innocence for so long without being found out?

My answer was not in relation to what you posted in your reply and I made that quite clear.

I'll spell it out to you again, PEOPLE lie all the time. I'm not specifically saying the McCanns are or the Tapas 7 or anything like that. PEOPLE, just people in general.

limnam · 04-11-2018 11:53PM

splinter65 wrote: »

So all the people who sat down to eat that night, the Tapas 7, have all managed to keep this terrible secret, the most terrible secret anyone could possibly have, for 12 years.
Despite merciless scrutiny from the press and the public.
Not one of them ever let one iota slip.
Not to anyone. Not in a row. No ones conscience was pricked. Ever.
Not a word.
So. 7 psychotics all just happened to go on holiday together.
7 people know where the body of the most famous missing child ever is and none of them have ever cracked.

You do know how insane this is, surely?

You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

splinter65 · 05-11-2018 12:45AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Cyrus T Buford wrote: »

Who said ALL of the Tapas 7 were involved?

Ok so 7 adults and assorted small children went on holidays. One of the small children was alive one day at 6pm but had been accidentally killed/murdered and removed hidden and buried with no trace leaving absolutely no evidence whatsoever by 10pm while her parents ate tapas within full sight of the 5 other parents ALL THE TIME AND NOT ONE OF THEM NOTICED ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY ODD!?!?

splinter65 · 05-11-2018 12:57AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

limnam wrote: »

You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

I’m sure you were on The Three Arguidos forum all those years ago. Of course you were. You all couldn’t explain this super human secret keeping theory on behalf of the Tapas 7 then, and you still can’t explain it.
Because it just doesn’t make any sense limnam. It didn’t make any sense then and 12 years later you still can’t make it fit your theory .
That’s why people who kept asking the difficult questions on that forum got banned.
You have a theory and you don’t want any pesky difficult questions like “who moved the body where when and how?”
to be asked because the lack of answers doesn’t fit your theory.
Frustrating for you but not enough that you’ll even consider, for one minute, that you could possibly be wrong all along....

splinter65 · 05-11-2018 01:02AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ozzy jr wrote: »

Steady on there. I answered a general question......

My answer was not in relation to what you posted in your reply and I made that quite clear.

I'll spell it out to you again, PEOPLE lie all the time. I'm not specifically saying the McCanns are or the Tapas 7 or anything like that. PEOPLE, just people in general.

People lie about where they were last night and they lie about how much the new dress was or how much they spent in the bookies. They lie when you ask them if they like your new hairstyle and they lie when you ask them if they paid the electric bil.
7 people don’t tell the same lie repeatedly for 12 years about the disappeance of an almost 4 year old girl that the whole world is searching 4.

redshoes15 · 05-11-2018 01:19AM

splinter65 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. How bitter you must be after 12 years that this still annoys you. Your hopes and dreams of seeing a destroyed family dragged through the criminal justice system came to nothing. Boohoo.
Maybe if you bring a bigger pitchfork to the next lynching you’ll get some satisfaction there.

Madeline Mc Cann was 3 years old when she was left in an unlocked/unsecured property alone with her two younger siblings while her parents went to have dinner and drinks. The children may or may not have been drugged to ensure they didn’t cause any issues or problems. Madeline Mc Cann either: 1) Wandered off and was involved in an accident/incident that was fatal. 2) Was abducted from this property by persons unknown. 3) Came to harm at the hands of their parents (either accidentally or intentionally) or a member/members of the Tapas 7. Nothing about this case has ever caused me to feel bitter. Nothing apart from the fact that the case remains unsolved and the child was put in danger by the people who should have been her biggest protectors annoy me. I find the tone used in your response to my previous post absolutely pathetic.

MonkieSocks · 05-11-2018 01:23AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

There was a witness who made a statement to the Gardand then the Portuguese police that he was almost certain he saw Gerry McCann walking with a child draped over his shoulder towards the beach. The e-fit of this man was created by the McCann investigators but was not released until Scotland Yard obtained it years later.

Load of Bollox :rolleyes:

Kate McCann believed the Smith sighting is highly significant

From the May 2009 Channel 4 documentary "Madeleine Was Here" (4.36):-

Quote:
The most likely sighting of Madeleine and her abductor was by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns.

In the files, Kate believes another witness statement from an Irish family, describes a very similar sighting to Jane’s. Less than a mile from the McCann’s apartment.

Kate: The reason why this is significant is.... both sightings were given independently. So, when this family gave their statement they weren’t aware of Jane's description and there’s actually quite a lot of similarities ... and it does beg the question... I mean, how many people carry their children on a cold night, not covered, you know?

Nothing on their arms, or their feet - no blanket.

Now, either there’s been two people carrying children that way who haven’t come forward to eliminate themselves, or potentially they’re related.

Voice of Interviewer: But, you think that child is Madeleine?

Kate: I think there's a good chance it could be Madeleine.

Certainly the description there sounds to me like Madeleine.Quote:

Kate McCann's book "Madeleine" (hardback):-

Kate McCann devotes no fewer than 4 pages in her book to the significance of the Smith sighting – pp 98, 328-329 & 365

Quote:
“The police did not appear to feel that Jane’s sighting in Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva and the man and child reported by the Irish holidaymakers in Rua da Escola Primaria were related.

They seem to have concluded that these were in all likelihood two different men carrying two different children (if, they implied, these two men actually existed at all).

The only reason for their skepticism appeared to be an unexplained time lapse between the two sightings.

To me, the similarities seem far more significant than any discrepancy in timing”.Quote:

______________________________

As for you bull about DNA evidence

fin12 · 05-11-2018 01:26AM

Accident happened, parents hid body

redshoes15 wrote: »

Madeline Mc Cann was 3 years old when she was left in an unlocked/unsecured property alone with her two younger siblings while her parents went to have dinner and drinks. The children may or may not have been drugged to ensure they didn’t cause any issues or problems. Madeline Mc Cann either: 1) Wandered off and was involved in an accident/incident that was fatal. 2) Was abducted from this property by persons unknown. 3) Came to harm at the hands of their parents (either accidentally or intentionally) or a member/members of the Tapas 7. Nothing about this case has ever caused me to feel bitter. Nothing apart from the fact that the case remains unsolved and the child was put in danger by the people who should have been her biggest protectors annoy me. I find the tone used in your response to my previous post absolutely pathetic.

Well said, a lot of the posters constantly go on about what her parents suffered or went through, but what about Madeline, what about the suffering that poor child went through?

Charmeleon · 05-11-2018 01:59AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Load of Bollox :rolleyes:

Kate McCann believed the Smith sighting is highly significant

From the May 2009 Channel 4 documentary "Madeleine Was Here" (4.36):-

Quote:
The most likely sighting of Madeleine and her abductor was by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns.

In the files, Kate believes another witness statement from an Irish family, describes a very similar sighting to Jane’s. Less than a mile from the McCann’s apartment.

Kate: The reason why this is significant is.... both sightings were given independently. So, when this family gave their statement they weren’t aware of Jane's description and there’s actually quite a lot of similarities ... and it does beg the question... I mean, how many people carry their children on a cold night, not covered, you know?

Nothing on their arms, or their feet - no blanket.

Now, either there’s been two people carrying children that way who haven’t come forward to eliminate themselves, or potentially they’re related.

Voice of Interviewer: But, you think that child is Madeleine?

Kate: I think there's a good chance it could be Madeleine.

Certainly the description there sounds to me like Madeleine.Quote:

Kate McCann's book "Madeleine" (hardback):-

Kate McCann devotes no fewer than 4 pages in her book to the significance of the Smith sighting – pp 98, 328-329 & 365

Quote:
“The police did not appear to feel that Jane’s sighting in Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva and the man and child reported by the Irish holidaymakers in Rua da Escola Primaria were related.

They seem to have concluded that these were in all likelihood two different men carrying two different children (if, they implied, these two men actually existed at all).

The only reason for their skepticism appeared to be an unexplained time lapse between the two sightings.

To me, the similarities seem far more significant than any discrepancy in timing”.Quote:

______________________________

As for you bull about DNA evidence

I sense a pattern in your posting style. It’s almost like a computer algorithm where you detect keywords and regurgitate any related talking points without dealing with the actual issues raised.

You didn’t address any of the points I made. The Smith family saw a man carrying a child, the father later made a statement to the police that he was highly certain the man he saw looked like Gerry McCann and held the child in the same manner as Gerry did when he saw him on television. Kate doesn’t seem to mention this in any of the quotes you pasted in there.

The e-fit the McCann investigators generated from this sighting was never released by the McCann team before Scotland Yard published it.

MonkieSocks · 05-11-2018 04:24AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

The e-fit the McCann investigators generated from this sighting was never released by the McCann team before Scotland Yard published it.

For once I sort of agree with you.

The e-fit the McCann investigators generated, was with the Portugese Police and leicester police and only when Scotland Yard got involved were they released.

Portugese Police and leicester police had the e-fits and didn't release them.

This was mainly down to Amaral who thought the child was already disposed at the time

Maybe Kate didn't think it looked like Gerry, at the time of the sighting Gerry was seen by lots of people in the Ocean club at that time

Martin Smith was not sure %100 it was gerry

I actually think they look like the Podesta Brothers

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Martan Smith been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits.

__________________________________________

Have your self some fun with this eye witnesses

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RI_Mc.htm

MonkieSocks · 05-11-2018 04:32AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

MonkieSocks wrote: »

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#p10p2653-2660l

DNA Testing

Samples collected in the living room of the apartment 5A, block A, Ocean Club, tourist resort - Praia da Luz, Lagos, on August 1st, 2007, following the examination carried out by a British specialist dog team. Delivery note no. 286/2007 - CR/L):

Objects attributed to the Apartment 5A of the Ocean Club

86/2007-CRL (1) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 1
A DNA result by LCN, that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex for a meaningful interpretation, was obtained from the cellular material collected from these floor tiles.

286/2007-CRL (2) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 2
An inconclusive, incomplete DNA result, consisting of only some unconfirmed DNA components, was obtained from the cellular material recovered from the edges of floor-tile 2 from the apartment floor. The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material recovered from the larger area of floor-tile 2 was unfruitful, given that it was not possible to obtain any DNA profile. These samples were then subjected to LCN analysis.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material in an area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, there is not any positive proof that supports the theory of any of the members of the McCann family to have contributed DNA to this result. A DNA result was obtained through LCN consistent with only one DNA component from a second area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, this component leaves no room for any other interpretation.

286/2007-CRL (3) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 3
The attempts to a DNA profile from any cellular material in two areas of this floor-tile were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 10

A DNA result that consisted of only some DNA components was obtained through LCN analysis of cellular material recovered from one area of floor-tile 3. In my opinion, this result left no room for any other interpretation. The attempt made the obtain a DNA profile through LCN from a second area of floor-tile 3 was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained.

286/2007-CRL (4) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 4
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these floor-tiles. In my opinion, this resuly contained information too meagre [scanty/poor] to permit a meaningful comparison.

286/2007-CRL (5) Pieces of floor-tile identified close to number 1
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through the LCN technique from some cellular material present in swabs collected from the marks [spots] 1, 2 and 3 were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained.

286/2007-CRL (6) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 1
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from these objects.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 11

286/2007-CRL (7) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 2
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (8) Pieces of skirting board identified as numbers 2 and 3
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (9) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 3
A DNA result that contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (10) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 4
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 12

286/2007-CRL (11) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 1
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (12) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 4
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects.
In my opinion, there exists no proof that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.

286/2007-CRL (13) Residual/small fragments in the area of the skirting board.
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (14) Dust/small fragments in the area of the floor tiles
This object was not adequate to perform DNA profile tests.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 13

286/2007-CRL (15) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (16) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 1
A DNA profile that did not match any [of the five members] of the McCann family was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area.

286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2
A DNA profile that appeared to be from at least two sources was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area. In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques. Breaking [departing] from the principle, for it to have had a DNA contribution from Lino Henriques then the remaining information in the smaller part of the result is too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.

286/2007-CRL (18) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 3
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 14

286/2007-CRL (19) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 4
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (20) Fragments of floor tile and grouting
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (21) Fragments of bush/shrubbery
Insofar as it relates to this sample, the examination performed was aimed at the detection of the possible presence of blood, no trace thereof having been found. Particles from the superficial surface layer were recovered and preserved in a way similar to that of hairs and fibres. In my opinion, the capillary roots were not good quality as they were not adequate to perform DNA profile tests.

286/2007-CRL (22, 23 e 24) Oral swabs for elimination
A new deposition to report the examination of these objects will be presented at a future time along with the DNA profiles obtained to date from all the DNA results relating to this case.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 15

286A/2007-CRL 1A & B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual but not matching any other profile obtained in this case, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.

286A/2007-CRL 2A & B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two people, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 16

A low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3B).
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 4A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a female individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 17

286A/2007-CRL 6A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

286A/2007-CRL 7A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 8A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The DNA results obtained through LCN from cellular material present in these combined swabs contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful comparison.

286A/2007-CRL 9A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
An incomplete DNA result, apparently originating from a male individual, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result. Also, this result did not match in any way the profile obtained from swabs 286A/2007 CRL 1A & B.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 18

286A/2007-CRL 10A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there are no indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

286A/2007-CRL 11A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286A/2007-CRL 12A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
A mixed DNA result, apparently originating from at least two persons, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the combined swabs.
In my opinion, there is no evidence that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 19

286A/2007-CRL 13A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through LCN from all and any cellular material recovered from these combined swabs was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286A/2007-CRL 14A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
Weak and incomplete DNA results consisting only of some unconfirmed DNA components were obtained from the cellular material present in these wet and dry swabs. In my opinion the results are not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

A mixed, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in each of the swabs.
In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify [confirm/prove] the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 20

286A/2007-CRL 15A & B Swabs collected from the rear of the sofa
A weak and incomplete DNA result showing indications as having come from more than one person was obtained from the cellular material present in dry swab (15A) effected on the rear of the sofa. In my opinion the result is not adequate for comparison purposes. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

A DNA result, apparently originating from at least three persons of whom at least two were male and contributed the majority of the DNA, was obtained from the cellular material present in the wet swab (15B) effected on the rear of the sofa.
In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result, comprising only some DNA components, was obtained through LCN from the cellular material present in the dry swab (15A).
In my opinion, there are no conclusive indications that justify the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to this result.

I post the above

Your Reply

Charmeleon wrote: »

The dogs detect traces of bodily fluid, most of which do not contain DNA. For blood samples for example, only the white blood cells contain DNA. Dead skin cells that fall off continuously do not preserve DNA. A negative DNA test does not invalidate the dog indications.

The well-known ‘CSI Effect’ leads people to believe that crimes result in DNA all over the place. That’s rarely the case.

The dogs are trained and tested to detect bodily fluids on objects and surfaces that have been washed and therefore are highly unlikely to contain traces of DNA.

I mentioned nothing about dogs, the post I posted was talking the DNA samples from the apartment 5a.

Simple enough to understand

ozzy jr · 05-11-2018 08:37AM

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

People lie about where they were last night and they lie about how much the new dress was or how much they spent in the bookies. They lie when you ask them if they like your new hairstyle and they lie when you ask them if they paid the electric bil.
7 people don’t tell the same lie repeatedly for 12 years about the disappeance of an almost 4 year old girl that the whole world is searching 4.

Seriously, you need to read the reply you quoted. I even want as far as to say I was not refering to the McCanns or the Tapas 7, but you still ignored that.

And people lie about a lot more serious things than "a new hairstyle".

Bill Clinton never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.
Richard Nixon knew nothing about Watergate.
OJ Simpson didn't kill his wife.
Neither did Joe O'Reilly.

History is full of people prepared to lie.

ONCE AGAIN I'M NOT REFERRING TO THE MCCANNS OR THE TAPAS 7, JUST MAKING A GENERAL POINT ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE WILL DO TO PROTEST THEIR INNOCENCE, REGARDLESS OF THE EVIDENCE AGAINST THEM.

Madeleine McCann

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