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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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  • Options
    #7712
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,451 ✭✭✭weisses


    everlast75 wrote: »
    I mean, why don't his supporters have a significant problem with the fact that every time he opens his damn mouth, he lies?

    https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1058327944995786752?s=19

    Do they not find it morally repugnant?
    Do they not see it as a significant personality flaw?
    Do they not see that if they cannot win their argument with facts then maybe, just maybe, their position and their views are completely wrong.

    It's not "funny".
    It's not "quaint".
    It's not "straight talking". It's the complete opposite. Its bullshít. Plain and simple.

    I for one cannot abide someone who is so completely devoid of honesty and is a simple member of the public, nevermind the President of the United f'n States.

    You are just doing what he wants .... engaging in the deception and deflection prior to the mid terms, so the real issues are not discussed .... don't feed the troll :D


  • Options
    #7713
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,625 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Danzy wrote: »
    Calm down with the Archbishop McQuaid routine.

    People can complain if they want, they have the right to and neither I nor you have to like it or respect.

    That sort of righteous B.S. killed the church in Ireland.

    It will do the same for people like you.

    You could say I'm doing a Trump. Calling it like it is and if the snowflakes don't like it, TS. ;)


  • Options
    #7714
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    I've been fairly obsessed with this administration since Trump was elected. One of the things I find fascinating about it is that it is clear to anyone with a glimmer of intelligence that Trump is totally out of his depth with the job. His knowledge of world affairs, economics, the constitution is very poor and I assumed, like any of us who have found themselves out of their depth in a job, would surround himself with people who know what they are doing and blag his way through it, until he could leave with some dignity.

    Instead he surrounded himself with Yes Men and it went tits up pretty fast, with continuous leaks, firings and a chaotic White House. His inability to pass any legislation has had the accidental, fortunate effect of continuing Obama's policies and leadership which has led to the healthy shape of the current US economy.

    Now, for the first time things are not going his way and he is up against genuine opposition. Not from the news, but from voters. He is coming out with spontaneous lies such as 10% tax reductions and these are clearly not working, so he has pulled out the old 'scary foreigners' chestnut in an attempt to unite using a common enemy, but this is not working either.

    This is new territory to Trump. This is a man who has always got his way, or bought his way out of it. But not anymore. What's worse is that there is a deluge of court cases awaiting him and his family, never mind Robert Mueller's investigation which seems to be reaching an end after just two years.

    How do you see this ending? A war turned GW Bush's fortunes around (albeit temporarily) but I don't believe Trump has it in him to start an actual war. He sees it more of a game and real bloodshed he shies away from.

    Comments from both pro and anti Trump welcome.


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    #7715
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,135 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    Instead he surrounded himself with Yes Men and it went tits up pretty fast, with continuous leaks, firings and a chaotic White House. His inability to pass any legislation has had the accidental, fortunate effect of continuing Obama's policies and leadership which has led to the healthy shape of the current US economy.

    I actually think the opposite: he has surrounded himself with people he is vulnerable to, and easily persuaded by; looking at the likes of Bolton, Bannon and so on & you see their influence with Trumps various stances (Bolton is particularly visible with Trump's pronouncements on foreign policy).

    And if they haven't been manipulators, then the promised 'best people' have turned out to be grifters and incompetents that stretch credulity - in fact were it not for the Commander & Chief himself being such a magnet for controversy, the continuous failures of Betsy DeVos, Rick Perry, Scott Pruitt, Ben Carson et al would have been enough to sink plenty of cabinets. Rick Perry is in charge of the nuclear arsenal IIRC - that ain't right.

    As to the chaos, I think that speaks to my own repeated insistence that it's merely a reflection of Trump's method of management: combative, competitive and almost zero sense of collaboration or encouragement. Coupled with that you got Trumps own refusal to engage in protocol - be it not destroying public documents or simply using an encrypted phone - and I could imagine many aides simply giving up trying to steer him. He demanded NDAs that turned out not to be enforceable, and generally cultivated an environment that was always going to result in people bailing em masse.


  • Options
    #7716
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,297 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Dog Man Star wrote: »

    How do you see this ending? A war turned GW Bush's fortunes around (albeit temporarily) but I don't believe Trump has it in him to start an actual war. He sees it more of a game and real bloodshed he shies away from.

    Comments from both pro and anti Trump welcome.

    I've a bet on that he'll be gone by Christmas.

    Being honest, any president normally would, when found to be the un-indicted co-conspirator in two felony crimes. Unfortunately, it is clear the gutless Reps would not impeach and their level of sycophancy has surprised me, along with the willingness of the republican base to eat the sh1t sandwiches he has delivered over the last nigh on two years.

    I sincerely hope the vast amount of Americans have a sense of decency sufficient enough to obliterate the Reps in the midterms. I would say Mr. Mueller has his first report ready to rock and if it is delivered to a Dem majority, with the knowledge contained in the Watergate roadmap, I am holding on to the dream that come Christmas, Mr. Trump will have had a serious dos of Karma.

    The sheer level of criminality will eventually come to the fore, and the reckoning will be extraordinary. Trump and his family and those closest to him will rue the day he ever decided to run.


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    #7717
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    Your examples of Bannon and Bolton prove my point though.

    Bannon initially lauded Trump. It was only after Bannon said the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians was 'treasonous' that he got fired.

    Bolton replaced McMaster, who replaced Mike Flynn. Flynn was fired under duress. McMaster was fired because he couldn't work with Trump's changing positions.

    These are original Yes Men who became No Men and were promptly fired.


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    #7718
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    Now, for the first time things are not going his way and he is up against genuine opposition. Not from the news, but from voters. He is coming out with spontaneous lies such as 10% tax reductions and these are clearly not working, so he has pulled out the old 'scary foreigners' chestnut in an attempt to unite using a common enemy, but this is not working either.
    For the midterms, the Republicans were originally going to go with the "big, beautiful tax cut", until they got feedback that told them that it was universally unpopular (with voters - with donors, it was a huge winner).

    So they actually did a bit of research to see what the public wanted and discovered that healthcare is a big concern - people saw the benefits of Obamacare and want to hold onto them. In particular, the coverage of pre-existing conditions is a requirement for (IIRC) 90% of the electorate. So the republicans just flat-out lied and said they were going to cover pre-existing conditions. Unlike the presidential election, when, as an alternative to Obamabacare, Trump promised "something terrific" (he's good on details, you see ), this time voters remember the fact that they tried to kill Obamacare, and don't believe the crap they are talking now.

    So now, it's back to the default strategy of getting the base out by fearmongering - "fear of the other" is something that's hard-wired into us as human beings, originating in our tribal days, and is very powerful once you tap into it. So from Australia to Hungary, through France, the UK and onto the US, those tapping into this fearmongering are going to rile people up, and garner a certain amount of support. The problem with riling people up, as Slobodan Milosevic discovered, is that it is then very hard to pull them back from the brink, and you can easily go from isolated attacks, to all-out war.

    In fairness to the extremely lazy man that is DJT, he is campaigning very hard on these midterms. For me, that's because Mueller is now very close to his family, with activity being suspended due to the elections. If the Republicans win, Trump can then fire Rosenstein and Mueller. If the Dems win, Trump is in big trouble, both politically and personally - and so are his family.

    And even within that, people wondered why they appointed Kavanaugh - when any right-winger would have done? Becuase Kavanaugh has strong views on whether you can indict a sitting president (hint: he thinks you can't). This would give Trump cover as long as he remains in the Oval Office.

    Of course, this wouldn't protect the family, but, you know ...


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    #7719
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    everlast75 wrote: »
    The sheer level of criminality will eventually come to the fore, and the reckoning will be extraordinary. Trump and his family and those closest to him will rue the day he ever decided to run.

    I agree with you on this. The spectrum of collusion with the Russians and others, and the degree of corruption will be extraordinary. It will have been the most rudimentary of investigations for Mueller, an easier case he will have never seen. We will see footage of Trump Jr and Kushner sentenced to jail terms, which will become our generations Zapruder films. Trump himself will avoid jail, but his name will always be associated with corruption and lying. Trumpism will come to mean total corruption and treason.

    It may also represent a watershed for populism and a brighter future for the US. The Republican party will suffer for a long time over Trump, perhaps a generation.

    The first phase begins next Wednesday. I am taking the day off to watch history unfold.


  • Options
    #7720
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    This is just bizarre.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1058388700617498625

    The Presidency is just a ratings game to him. He's treating it like a TV show. I doubt he even knows GoT. It is probably the idea of some stupid staffer and Trump loved it. FFS, what a child!


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    #7721
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    everlast75 wrote: »
    The fact that this race is so close is a damning indictment of the lack of moral fibre and critical thinking of the american public.
    The fact that Trump won the rust belt in 2016 is a damning indictment of the Democratic Party and their corruption, particularly when it emerged that they had conspired to cheat Bernie Sanders out of the nomination. This caused Democratic voters to either vote Trump or, what probably had a greater effect, to stay at home - thus handing the White House to DJT.

    This time around, the biggest excitement with Democratic candidates is with those following the small-donor path laid down by Sanders - refusing money from corporations and rich people, therefore not being beholden to them and therefore, when elected, doing what the people, rather than the donors want.


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    #7722
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    serfboard wrote: »
    ...

    Excellent analysis serfboard, thanks.


  • Options
    #7723
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,882 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    He is only motivating his base with these nonsense boogeymen on the border. No undecideds will be convinced by this guff. His base is not enough, as long as the voter turnout is high, which is looks certain to be.

    I can see some really surprising wins for the Democrats. Beto O'Rourke will win over Ted Cruz in Texas. The gap is narrowing more and more every day.

    What happens in the coming months will be very interesting.

    Democrats should put Beto O'Rourke forward for the 2020 Presidency. He is the antidote to Trump. A great orator, young and charming. He reminds me a lot of Bobby Kennedy.

    A win for O'Rourke next week should surely put him in pole position in the Dems' nomination race.

    I'm sure Trump would zero in on his name to throw some red meat to the alt-right.


  • Options
    #7724
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    serfboard wrote: »
    ...


    Great post. What constitutes a 'win' for the Democrats. It seems they are expected to take the House but not the Senate. Would that be enough to be considered a 'win'?


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    #7725
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    Slightly off topic: what are your opinions on the US news channels? I think I watch more than Trump. Disclaimer: I'm in Perth, so these shows are my morning or night and I listen to the evening shows at work.

    MSNBC
    I enjoy Morning Joe, but it is entertainment a la This Morning with Richard and Judy. Rachel Maddow is always interesting. Lawrence O'Donnell too dramatic.

    CNN
    Anderson Cooper is good. Love Chris Cuomo. Don Lemon too dramatic. New Day is a decent antitode to Morning Joe.

    FOX
    Hannity is unbearable propaganda, likewise Tucker Carlson and pretty much everything. I still tune in for a view from the other side, but it is hard to watch.

    Should this be a new thread maybe?


  • Options
    #7726
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,135 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    This is just bizarre.

    [snipped tweet]

    The Presidency is just a ratings game to him. He's treating it like a TV show. I doubt he even knows GoT. It is probably the idea of some stupid staffer and Trump loved it. FFS, what a child!

    And therein lies the essential conundrum for discussing Trump, alongside double standards in accusing his critics (such as folk here) as being hysterical: how can any criticism of the man possibly remain sober when he himself acts like a standard Twitter sh*tposter, and without any consideration towards decorum or maturity?

    Economic sanctions are a serious action, something that affects lives, livelihoods and the stability of countries & geopolitics yet here is Donald Trump, sitting US President, acting like it's just a big wheeze or some glib power move to be highfived. And remember, the previous President was excoriated for wearing a tan suit in the White House.


  • Options
    #7727
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    Great post. What constitutes a 'win' for the Democrats. It seems they are expected to take the House but not the Senate. Would that be enough to be considered a 'win'?

    I think winning some pure red seats would be a win for the Democrats. They have some great individual candidates. That they don't have a natural Presidential candidate is not important now.

    I think they may take the Senate too. I think this might be the shock of these elections. They are generating massive voting from the <30 yrs electorate, which is unprecedented.

    There isn't many 20 year old voters voting Republican.


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    #7728
    2 Scoops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    everlast75 wrote: »
    I've a bet on that he'll be gone by Christmas.

    You want to bet anymore? I'll give you odds of 10 to 1. We can escrow the money to a moderator here.


  • Options
    #7729
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    A win for O'Rourke next week should surely put him in pole position in the Dems' nomination race.

    I'm sure Trump would zero in on his name to throw some red meat to the alt-right.

    How refreshing would it be to have O'Rourke as President. I have listened to him talk at length and have struggled to disagree with anything he has said. At a minimum he is the next Bill Clinton, but he represents so much more than that. He is part deep south, part latino, cool, intelligent and so clearly loves America. Like Trump, they can throw anything at him and he calmly deflects.

    Like I said earlier, he is 2018 Robert Kennedy.


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    #7730
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    You want to bet anymore? I'll give you odds of 10 to 1. We can escrow the money to a moderator here.

    Reported. This is nonsense. This should be deleted, it's not the horse racing forum.


  • Options
    #7731
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    I don't think Beto is going to beat Cruz, but as I said before he is raising his profile very well and running a great campaign for the future.

    A democrat who can carry Texas is a very powerful candidate, the demographics of Texas are changing fast, not fast enough for this cycle imo but certainly for the future he is on the right path.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #7732
    2 Scoops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    Reported. This is nonsense. This should be deleted, it's not the horse racing forum.

    Did what I wrote upset you? I mean you seem pretty entangled in the hysteria too. A DUI driver who fled the accident is the new Robert Kennedy after all.
    I agree with you on this. The spectrum of collusion with the Russians and others, and the degree of corruption will be extraordinary. It will have been the most rudimentary of investigations for Mueller, an easier case he will have never seen. We will see footage of Trump Jr and Kushner sentenced to jail terms, which will become our generations Zapruder films. Trump himself will avoid jail, but his name will always be associated with corruption and lying. Trumpism will come to mean total corruption and treason.

    What you wrote above is nonsense and I'm calling you out on your faux hysteria. If you don't like it, tough. Everlast said he'd bet money on Trump being gone by Christmas, there's nothing wrong with seeing if he wants to bet more. You're not a moderator so leave it to them what's acceptable and what's not, until then keep your head in check and mind your own business.


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    #7733
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    Did what I wrote upset you? I mean you seem pretty entangled in the hysteria too. A DUI driver who fled the accident is the new Robert Kennedy after all.



    What you wrote above is nonsense and I'm calling you out on your faux hysteria. If you don't like it, tough. Everlast said he'd bet money on Trump being gone by Christmas, there's nothing wrong with seeing if he wants to bet more. You're not a moderator so leave it to them what's acceptable and what's not, until then keep your head in check and mind your own business.

    Again, this post is personal criticism of me, O'Rourke and Everlast and no actual comment on Trump. Distraction and 'whataboutery'. I'm tired of reading this from you. You have nothing of value to say and never have. Like Trump. It's all bluster, no substance, no ideas, no actual methods to "make America great again", just bluster and bull****. And the American voters are saying no more, no more bull****. And your time is up, and Trump's time is up. You can fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.


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    #7734
    2 Scoops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    Again, this post is personal criticism of me, O'Rourke and Everlast and no actual comment on Trump. Distraction and 'wahtaboutery'. I'm tired of reading this from you. You have nothing of value to say and never had.

    Here's some Trump news if you're desperate for it. You fantasize about Don JR and Kushner being put in jail and broadcast on national TV and Mueller being some sort of angel brought down from heaven, if that's what constitutes "Trump commentary" it's a pretty low bar, I'd call it hyper partisan delusion. Don't get so upset when someone calls out your nonsense.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/02/us-created-250000-jobs-in-oct-vs-190000-jobs-expected.html

    Jobs smash estimates with gain of 250,000, wage gains pass 3% for first time since recession


  • Options
    #7735
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    Did what I wrote upset you? I mean you seem pretty entangled in the hysteria too. A DUI driver who fled the accident is the new Robert Kennedy after all.


    If that's the best criticism you can come up with for Beto then he aint doing too bad


  • Options
    #7736
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    Here's some Trump news if you're desperate for it. You fantasize about Don JR and Kushner being put in jail and broadcast on national TV, if that's what constitutes commentary it's a pretty low bar, I'd call it hyper partisan delusion. Don't get so upset when someone calls out your nonsense.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/02/us-created-250000-jobs-in-oct-vs-190000-jobs-expected.html

    Jobs smash estimates with gain of 250,000, wage gains pass 3% for first time since recession

    1. What has this got to do with Trump Jr and Kushner? Both are heavily involved with the conspiracy with the Russian governors and will be dealt with accordingly. There is no escaping the Special Counsel's investigations. They will be jailed.

    2. As I said, Trump has not implemented any influential legislation to change Obama's policies so this is Obama's tenure continuing unhindered into 2018. Obama did one hell of a job, his Presidency continues unimpeded into year 10, must be the longest period of uninterrupted policy in US history.


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    #7737
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    Again, this post is personal criticism of me, O'Rourke and Everlast and no actual comment on Trump. Distraction and 'whataboutery'. I'm tired of reading this from you. You have nothing of value to say and never have.

    As I said yesterday

    "It's almost pointless attempting to debate with a Trump supporter these days as by now you'd either have to be deficient in the IQ area or share some or all of Trumps traits, knowingly or unknowingly; to not see what he is."

    I've no problem with genuine Republican supporters by the way. They have their beliefs which seem to coincide with the Republican party. That's just normal. It's the failure to see Trump for what he is that is one of the worst elements of this s**tshow.


  • Options
    #7738
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    relax carry on wrote: »
    As I said yesterday

    "It's almost pointless attempting to debate with a Trump supporter these days as by now you'd either have to be deficient in the IQ area or share some or all of Trumps traits, knowingly or unknowingly; to not see what he is."

    I've no problem with genuine Republican supporters by the way. They have their beliefs which seem to coincide with the Republican party. That's just normal. It's the failure to see Trump for what he is that is one of the worst elements of this s**tshow.

    Yes, you're right. I fell for it.


  • Options
    #7739
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,164 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    You're not a moderator so leave it to them what's acceptable and what's not, until then keep your head in check and mind your own business.

    No backseat modding please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #7740
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,164 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Dog Man Star wrote: »
    Again, this post is personal criticism of me, O'Rourke and Everlast and no actual comment on Trump. Distraction and 'whataboutery'. I'm tired of reading this from you. You have nothing of value to say and never have. Like Trump. It's all bluster, no substance, no ideas, no actual methods to "make America great again", just bluster and bull****. And the American voters are saying no more, no more bull****. And your time is up, and Trump's time is up. You can fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

    Enough of the personal digs please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #7741
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,297 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    Here's some Trump news if you're desperate for it. You fantasize about Don JR and Kushner being put in jail and broadcast on national TV and Mueller being some sort of angel brought down from heaven, if that's what constitutes "Trump commentary" it's a pretty low bar, I'd call it hyper partisan delusion. Don't get so upset when someone calls out your nonsense.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/02/us-created-250000-jobs-in-oct-vs-190000-jobs-expected.html

    Jobs smash estimates with gain of 250,000, wage gains pass 3% for first time since recession

    I'll engage with you when you answer the question of whether you condemn the racist rhetoric of Trump and if not, why not. I've asked you at least twice.

    Until then, your viewpoint is contaminated by an implicit acceptance of racism and hate speech.

    And by the way, re: job gains? check the deficit. It's easy to throw money at any problem. Its all Trump knows and that's lead to multiple bankruptcies. Hopefully the reins of power are removed from him before he does the same to the US economy


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