Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Mountainsandh · 30-10-2018 03:20PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Are you talking about both seasons or can you not contribute to the thread if you’ve only seen season 1?

JUST FREAKIN' WATCH IT ALREADY !!!

Uriel. · 30-10-2018 09:15PM

My view is that nether should be locked up on the basis of the issues that have been raised. From what I've seen in MaM and what I've read outside of it, there's way too much suss stuff that needs to be examined.

I don't think either or both are innocent but based on the evidence that has been uncovered and the evidence that didn't make it into the original trial I would have serious concerns about the safety of the convictions.

The thing that I think needs to be really considered is - suppose they are guilty of the crime - is the execution of justice in this case appropriate as to the end game - in other words does the end justify the means (such as planted evidence to secure a conviction, where the person is l, in actual fact, guilty).

I don't believe in such a justice system but many do and its not a black or white answer in my view. There may well be a time where a loved one is at the end of nasty incident and I might well like the perpetrator locked up on planted evidence or unfair procedure because they are known to be guilty. The thing to remember in such cases is that they are so personal. A young woman was murdered, by someone.

I particularly question the safety of Dassey's conviction. I can't fathom how that could be allowed to stand in any well functioning criminal justice system.

I think comparing Dassey and Avery to the Guildford 4 is a red herring. I equally find it strange that anyone could be so absolutely certain of their guilt.

I left season 2 though with a real sadness for Averys parents. They've had to go through so much in their lives whatever then real truth. I don't believe Steven or Brendan will be out of prison before they both pass away.

walshb · 30-10-2018 09:58PM

Look, if Avery came out and admitted to the killing you would still have people arguing about how he was convicted..

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

Anyway, as it stands the authorities are satisfied that justice was served fairly, and this documentary in all its bias has not changed that view.

Uncharted · 30-10-2018 10:06PM

walshb wrote: »

Look, if Avery came out and admitted to the killing you would still have people arguing about how he was convicted..

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

Anyway, as it stands the authorities are satisfied that justice was served fairly, and this documentary in all its bias has not changed that view.

You've watched the full remaining 9 episodes already?

Wow,that's dedication.

Do you think the second series was much more in depth? What do you think of Kathleen Zellner's more full on approach to the case?

Uriel. · 30-10-2018 10:09PM

walshb wrote: »

Look, if Avery came out and admitted to the killing you would still have people arguing about how he was convicted..

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

Anyway, as it stands the authorities are satisfied that justice was served fairly, and this documentary in all its bias has not changed that view.

Which is precisely why the victims of crimes aren't judge jury and executioner.

There is absolutely no harm in questioning a system even if it gets the right result. One should never be so blind to the potential of catastrophic error and/or manipulation

Tipsy McSwagger · 30-10-2018 10:18PM

Commanchie wrote: »

You cannot contribute accurately to the thread if you have only watched 1 season of the programme that this thread is about and named after.

My question was to the MOD

drkpower · 30-10-2018 10:23PM

walshb wrote: »

Look, if Avery came out and admitted to the killing you would still have people arguing about how he was convicted..

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

Anyway, as it stands the authorities are satisfied that justice was served fairly, and this documentary in all its bias has not changed that view.

Interrogating the system rigorously isn’t just about protecting the accused.

It’s also about protecting victims; a system which turns an effective blind eye to investigative / prosecution shortcomings and abuses - never mind possible misconduct - results in poor investigations and a failure to investigate and follow up leads that could identify potential perpetrators. That may or may not be relevant in the Avery case.

Even if they have the right man - and they may do - those types of practices endangers victims and future victims.

walshb · 30-10-2018 10:25PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Which is precisely why the victims of crimes aren't judge jury and executioner.

There is absolutely no harm in questioning a system even if it gets the right result. One should never be so blind to the potential of catastrophic error and/or manipulation

I agree with all this...

Just saying if it was that close to me personally...and I knew such and such did that. I’d either kill them or jump for joy that the system got them via any means. I wouldn’t give a flying fook about procedure...and nor would anyone else if they were in that position. We’re only human.

For the greater good of society your post I agree with..

Uriel. · 30-10-2018 10:30PM

walshb wrote: »

I agree with all this...

Just saying if it was that close to me personally...and I knew such and such did that. I’d either kill them or jump for joy that the system got them via any means. I wouldn’t give a flying fook about procedure...and nor would anyone else if they were in that position. We’re only human.

For the greater good of society your post I agree with..

As would I. I'd plant the evidence myself if I thought I'd get away with it.

retro:electro · 30-10-2018 10:31PM

walshb wrote: »

Does the end justify the means? Well, if it was my loved one butchered like that, damn right the ends justify the means..

What if Brendan was your brother? Would you be happy with how he was treated?

walshb · 30-10-2018 10:32PM

retro:electro wrote: »

What if Brendan was your brother? Would you be happy with how he was treated?

Get back to me on whether or not you believe them guilty, or even Avery guilty, and I’ll answer!

retro:electro · 30-10-2018 10:34PM

walshb wrote: »

Get back to me on whether or not you believe them guilty, or even Avery guilty, and I’ll answer!

Huh? I believe Steven should have been acquitted as there was more than enough reasonable doubt.
Brendan had nothing to do with it.
(A quick read over any of my posts would have told you that)

Now you.

walshb · 30-10-2018 10:35PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Huh? I believe Steven should have been acquitted as there was more than enough reasonable doubt.
Brendan had nothing to do with it.
(A quick read over any [/] of my posts would have told you that.

Now you.

Do you believe Avery killed the lady? Yes or no?

retro:electro · 30-10-2018 10:40PM

walshb wrote: »

Do you believe Avery killed the lady? Yes or no?

Not sure in all honesty. Sometimes I think he did it and then I find myself being convinced otherwise. I have doubt about it, which is why I would acquit him if I was a selected juror. That’s not me being obtuse to avoid answering your question by the way, those are my genuine thoughts on the case. I can’t tell if he was involved or not. My personal opinion on him would lead me to believe he was probably capable of it but my personal opinion is irrelevant in a court of law. I think the way it was managed was outrageous.

Now yourself?

mad m · 30-10-2018 10:45PM

The real eye opener for me was the ex coroners statement. Sheriff said they’d arrest her if she went out to crime scene and drop it because of the 36mil lawsuit, conflict of interest

bazermc · 30-10-2018 10:45PM

Ah jeeze here we go again.

walshb · 30-10-2018 10:46PM

Believing that Dassey and Avery killed her I would feel nothing for Dassey for the way he was treated...

They’re cops interrogating a person they believe to be a killer. They’re not there to be all nicely nice. Their interrogation:confession extraction was found to be just and safe..they passed the test...

So, Dassey’s my brother and I feel he is innocent I wouldn’t be happy with his interrogation/treatment, but I would understand where the cops are coming from.

If I felt Dassey (my brother) was guilty/involved then as far as I would be concerned they could beat a confession out of him to get justice for that poor woman..

mad m · 30-10-2018 11:05PM

Stevie should employ Howard Greenberg from “Last chance lawyer” on BBC 2 on sundays.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2018/41/last-chance-lawyer

Great show.

Field east · 30-10-2018 11:05PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Not sure in all honesty. Sometimes I think he did it and then I find myself being convinced otherwise. I have doubt about it, which is why I would acquit him if I was a selected juror. That’s not me being obtuse to avoid answering your question by the way, those are my genuine thoughts on the case. I can’t tell if he was involved or not. My personal opinion on him would lead me to believe he was probably capable of it but my personal opinion is irrelevant in a court of law. I think the way it was managed was outrageous.

Now yourself?

Why do you say that he was probably capable of killing Theresa H. Is it because he did something similar/ near similar in the past; or that he has a history of subduing women ;was into bondage activities ; or is it that he would have the strength to do it- she being of slim build and he being quiet muscular / big framed or is it his general facial expression or what? . I have watched all episodes and nothing jumped out at me to indicate that he would be capable of killing Theresa apart from the strength to do it. That would apply to most men.
Avery had no motive to harm Theresa while at least two others might have had

orangerhyme · 30-10-2018 11:38PM

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

the whole year inn · 31-10-2018 12:05AM

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yea ,do the cops/who ever see the blood and then get the viles and carefully put the drops of blood into them.
I think there is room for a retrial, I cant beleive a key cant be found at a locker in a search that would take minutes instead of days.What search party signed off their names for that,its probably the first place I would look .

mad m · 31-10-2018 12:08AM

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yeah it does a bit, but those trailers have limited heating and especially in a bathroom it may have taken a while before blood dried up? But if you look at the smudge at ignition key, it does look as if it was put on with a cotton bud as you see the main indent a bud would leave then the smudge.

Mountainsandh · 31-10-2018 01:51AM

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yeah I get that, but it has to be said that on initial searches of the trailer, the cops took note that there was blood on the door frame into Steven's trailer. Of course at the time they might have thought it was Teresa's blood, but when it turned out there wasn't blood anywhere else, and Steven had a cut, knowing there were bits here and there around the trailer might have seeded an idea.

I don't agree with KZ that the killer is the one to have harvested and planted blood. That seems far fetched to me.

But I do believe that cops may have come back on the sly to collect DNA for themselves, just to have it up their sleeve so to speak, and happened upon the blood. If they were after exactly that type of DNA/forensic material, they may well have had the equipment to do it.

KZ reckons the hood latch & key were probably rubbed with a toothbrush, and I think I saw somewhere that according to Steven, it had also gone missing.

marklazarcovic · 31-10-2018 05:37AM

Look at it this way, Steven supposedly killed her in the garage,knifed and raped her in the bedroom,slitting her throat right! Blood everywhere... Curiously not one drop found in either place, despite no forensic clean up.

But blood found in the dodgy RAV4 finding ... Naaaaa,not for me.

tony1kenobi · 31-10-2018 08:35AM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

My question was to the MOD

Perhaps Commanchie read half of your question and decided that was enough information to answer it correctly.

Cina · 31-10-2018 08:56AM

Found the first two episodes of season two pretty pointless and dull so far.

Does it get better?

Uncharted · 31-10-2018 09:00AM

Cina wrote: »

Found the first two episodes of season two pretty pointless and dull so far.

Does it get better?

It definitely builds momentum as it goes. Stick with it. I'll be watching it all again over the next week or two.

Uriel. · 31-10-2018 09:30AM

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Look at it this way, Steven supposedly killed her in the garage,knifed and raped her in the bedroom,slitting her throat right! Blood everywhere... Curiously not one drop found in either place, despite no forensic clean up.

But blood found in the dodgy RAV4 finding ... Naaaaa,not for me.

Yeah imagine having the wherewithal to clean up what could only have been a very gruesome crime scene with significant blood that included moving a person, that had her cut throat cut and a variety of other injuries, to another room and then finishing them off with a gun shot at close proximity. Imagine cleaning up all that to leave no trace behind, some effort.... Get rid of all but some small fragments of bone....

But then don't bother wearing gloves when you're moving the vehicle... Even leaving aside a cut on his finger, surely he'd be worried about finger prints etc.

Left no finger prints tho just high volumes of DNA and blood in/on the car.

Maybe Brendan is a genius and cleaned up the trailer to perfection but Steve.. Jesus Steve all you had to do was hide the car. One job Steve, one job.

Brock Turnpike · 31-10-2018 10:09AM

mad m wrote: »

orangerhyme wrote: »

Does anyone think the bit about the blood in the RAV4 was taken from Steven Avery's trailer is a bit far fetched?

I find a lot of Katherines theories plausible except that

Yeah it does a bit, but those trailers have limited heating and especially in a bathroom it may have taken a while before blood dried up? But if you look at the smudge at ignition key, it does look as if it was put on with a cotton bud as you see the main indent a bud would leave then the smudge.

She also mentioned that wherever was involved knew that there would on Steven's finger had reopened. And Steven has said he was with Bobby when the wound reopened.

Separately to the above. I don't think I've seen it mentioned as to how half hearted the police interview was with Bobby about him lying at trial. Essentially steering him to not say anything as they wouldn't want to him to get in trouble.

Uncharted · 31-10-2018 10:42AM

Bobby Dassey has a lot of questions to answer imo.
Both he and Scott seem to have a dark cloud over their whereabouts and activity around the time of Teresa's visit to Avery road.

I think they will feature a LOT in series 3.

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Comments