A question for Peter Casey voters

Discodog · 27-10-2018 10:11AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why do people say this? It appeared to me that he said something without thinking. It received a huge backlash and coverage that he did not expect or anticipate. He temporarily suspended his campaign to think about it and then realised he would get some populist support from it and it would give him his best chance to get his expenses back so he ran with it.

If the man had the "courage to say it" , he could and would have said it about a lot more things and said it from the start of the campaign. And there would have been no suspension of campaign. At the end of the day, there are bigger fish to fry than sorting out 6 travellers who won't take their free houses.

The dilemma for Casey voters would have been if one of the other candidates had decided to go one further and shouted about "thieving kn***ers" and "invading muslims" etc. Who would they have voted for then? Given the other candidate would have had "more courage" :rolleyes:

It does take courage. Plenty of people agree with Casey regarding travellers but they will be ostracised by "society".

This isn't about six travellers. It's about people experiencing criminal activity all over the country.

What's the difference between populist & democracy ? I don't think that people would give such support for anti muslim views because non of us have been subjected to criminality by muslims.

thecomedian · 27-10-2018 10:18AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Muslims were mentioned in the post I quoted. Although I did not quote the full thing.

Replace muslims with whatever populist example you prefer.

I wouldn’t associate Casey voters being against Muslims or “invading Muslims” as you put it.
I just found it strange that you used that phase and connected it with Casey voters.

Akrasia · 27-10-2018 10:23AM

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

When Casey said he wasn't a feminist because he didn't believe in preferential treatment for one gender over another he won my vote.

At the very beginning I was voting Joan Freeman but I didn't like her campaign or in the debates so didn't vote for her.

feminism
/ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

so you voted for him because he doesn't know what feminism is.

mattser · 27-10-2018 10:29AM

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of people saying that they voted for Casey in order to shake up the establishment etc etc.

If you can't pull your head out of your ass and see the irreparable damage votes based on that premise has and continues to do to the States, then I can't help you.

I get the frustration at the refusal of those in power to speak to the facts, and I mean facts, not embellished anecdotes.

But ffs, a poster said that he got his vote when Casey said he wasn't a feminist, then when another said that Casey was "literally" wrong on the definition, the poster fudged the issue.

A lot of anger is there, and the subject should be addressed, and politicians should do much much bettet, but making it the basis of a presidential election is mental.

Take your anti Trump bile and stick it up your own ass. This thread pales compared to the anger in the DT thread, where any dissent toward the populace is ridiculed.

everlast75 · 27-10-2018 10:31AM

According to another poster who supports Casey...

"Peter Casey is a millionaire several times over, he wasn’t going for the job for the salary, he even said he’d only take half the salary of elected".

And then another supporter says that he will vote for Casey because he will stand up for the squeezed middle classes.

Reminds me of that old saying...

People who make 300e an hour telling people who make 30e an hour that the people who make 5e an hour are the problem.

Stop looking to unexperienced rich people to fix the problem by blaming it on one particular group of people.

Ffs travellers were thrown in with middle eastern gangs, asylum seekers and others earlier.

The whole traveller lifestyle should be analysed, they should not receive preferential treatment, they should be not be allowed take their kids out of school early, or go sulky racing etc but the idea that each and every one (because that's how they are viewed) is the reason why you don't get an extra euro in your pocket is non-sensical.

Calm the rhetoric down. We should be more sensible in our debates

seamus · 27-10-2018 10:33AM

Thankfully Casey's vote is a minority so they can just be ignored. They don't deserve any special treatment or recognition.

Right?

tretorn · 27-10-2018 10:33AM

Try_harder wrote: »

On Late Debate - @bridsmithTD talking about Casey’s Traveller nonsense. “Last year the entire budget for Traveller Accommodation was €12m - we gave the horse racing industry €67m”

The issue for most people though is traveller crime and not how much is spent on accomodation. You have families living in rural areas who never go out together, someone always stays behind in case travellers come calling. You have residents on whatsapp group taking notes of car registrstions snd monitoring movements. They have to do this to defend their families because there arent enough Gardai and the Courts cant deal effectively with these leeches.
Imagine living in that siege mentality sll day everyday when your property is isolated, it eould have a terrible effect on you and then you read about your tormenters getting ethnic status. No one talks on the radio or prints articles about you and then Peter Casey has the guts to do it.
Of course you are going to vote for him.
The horses and housing and Margaret Cash crystallised what the majority of people feel about travellers but there is no where they can say it without being bullied by the PC mob.

Brede Smyths sole purpose in life is to represent the welfare vote, she is a non entity, her party get far too much air time in spite of the fact they cant get more than 1% of the population to vote for them. People who lives their entire lives on welfare wouldnt be arsed getting themselves registered to vote, they will get out of bed to meet some do gooder to sign the forms allowing them to qualify for every assistance going.

Peter Casey with no media profile and no party like the against profit outfit managed to get one in five people to vote for him, this is a serious message that needs to be listened to.

strandsman · 27-10-2018 10:40AM

prinzeugen wrote: »

No. I will be honest and say I switched from Higgins to him purely on those comments.

Its about time someone had the balls. I have worked with travellers (and one is always welcome back), but the rest use their status as a get out of jail card for robbing.

No different to the "ra" claiming fuel laundering and drug trafficking is for "the cause".

I agree.

tretorn · 27-10-2018 10:41AM

seamus wrote: »

Thankfully Casey's vote is a minority so they can just be ignored. They don't deserve any special treatment or recognition.

Right?

Casey got 20% of the eligible voters, you ignore this at your peril like the conservatives in the UK did and then you are in a Brexit situation.

The arrogance of your post is breath taking.

I know you think you are being smart and showing your superiority but one in five voters had a very good reson to vote for Casey in spite of the fact that he was a very poor candidate, these people have reached the end of their tether and next thing they will be taking the Law into their own hands. Thats what happens when people have enough of travellers criminality and bullying and unfortuneately when that happens the innocent travellers will suffer too.

strandsman · 27-10-2018 10:42AM

seamus wrote: »

Thankfully Casey's vote is a minority so they can just be ignored. They don't deserve any special treatment or recognition.

Right?

maybe Casey supporters should get an ethnic status also.......

Donald Trump · 27-10-2018 10:49AM

thecomedian wrote: »

I wouldn’t associate Casey voters being against Muslims or “invading Muslims” as you put it.
I just found it strange that you used that phase and connected it with Casey voters.

You took that from my post. But it was not the intention of my post.

As I tried to explain already, Casey inadvertently spouted some populist rhetoric and then decided to run with it. People who vote for a head of state based off a single populist issue are also liable to get swayed by a different equally populist issue. Use whatever issue you want. I used "muslims" as it was mentioned in the quote I was replying to.

If people voted for Casey based on his overall campaign and stances then that is fair enough. If someone voted for him for his "courage" in "telling it like it is" about travellers then that's disappointing.

Once he got the publicity and decided to run with it, he then doubled down about the welfare state...........but then when asked didn't have a clue what a person on the dole got. For fucks sake. Have a point or argument if you want, but at least know some of the figures behind it rather than empty demagoguery. And at the end of the day, the position of President is not the role to address any of those issues if they actually wanted to.

He just played to the lowest common denominator. It worked for him. He'll get his expenses back. More money for the wealthy multi-millionaire.

Donald Trump · 27-10-2018 10:53AM

Discodog wrote: »

It does take courage. Plenty of people agree with Casey regarding travellers but they will be ostracised by "society".

This isn't about six travellers. It's about people experiencing criminal activity all over the country.

What's the difference between populist & democracy ? I don't think that people would give such support for anti muslim views because non of us have been subjected to criminality by muslims.

Where was his courage at the start of the campaign?
His "courage" was making a statement without realising what he was doing. Then when it got a backlash he suspended his campaign to assess what he was going to do. Took a look at it and then realized that he could get a few votes from it

What had he got to lose at that stage? Was polling around 1%. No career in politics or public service to damage. A multi-milliionaire with his money already made and in the bank.

You have a funny definition of "courage"!

seamus · 27-10-2018 10:55AM

tretorn wrote: »

Casey got 20% of the eligible voters, you ignore this at your peril like the conservatives in the UK did and then you are in a Brexit situation.

The arrogance of your post is breath taking.

Whoosh.

Arghus · 27-10-2018 11:04AM

tretorn wrote: »

Casey got 20% of the eligible voters, you ignore this at your peril like the conservatives in the UK did and then you are in a Brexit situation.

The arrogance of your post is breath taking.

I know you think you are being smart and showing your superiority but one in five voters had a very good reson to vote for Casey in spite of the fact that he was a very poor candidate, these people have reached the end of their tether and next thing they will be taking the Law into their own hands. Thats what happens when people have enough of travellers criminality and bullying and unfortuneately when that happens the innocent travellers will suffer too.

That's not what he was getting at mate.

mcmoustache · 27-10-2018 11:07AM

everlast75 wrote: »

A lot of anger is there, and the subject should be addressed, and politicians should do much much bettet, but making it the basis of a presidential election is mental.

This is what bugged me. I mostly agreed with him on travelers and welfare but those comments were little more than cynical opportunism. I'm naturally sceptical about populists whether they're Chavez or Duterte. That stuff is more for the radio than the Áras.

If Casey is to be taken seriously, he needs to run on a a more local level where his opinions on these things is actually relevant. His opinion on travelers would absolutely be relevant on a local council where halting sites are up for discussion. If I'm wrong about him being a cynical opportunist, he'll probably do just that.

Either way, what he feels about social welfare or travelers is fairly meaningless in a presidential role. Making it the basis of one's vote for him is about as smart as choosing a plumber because of his opinion on bread.

Marhay70 · 27-10-2018 11:26AM

I voted for Casey simply because he said what I want to say but don't have the platform to say it. I'm sick to death of the antics of travellers and the way there appears to be no political will to stand up to them. Politicians and Judges living in their cocooned world don't have to put up with the shi**these people heap on the ordinary plain folk of Ireland on a daily basis but politicians and judges are the ones who decide not to impose any sanction on them and allow the behaviour to continue.
I used my vote in a Presidential election because I consider the result to be irrelevant and just to express my frustration at the general inadequacy of the powers that be to deal with the various crises in the state, from the housing crisis through the law and order crisis to the HSE and Brexit.
I will use my vote in the General Election in a much more constructive way.

Beechwoodspark · 27-10-2018 11:27AM

Ppl are just sick and tired of the govt pandering to the every whim of absolute scumbags and lazy bastards and of course the “holier than thou” travellers.

weldoninhio · 27-10-2018 11:29AM

Zaph wrote: »

So it looks like Peter Casey is going to come in with about 20% of the vote rather than the pre-Traveller comments 2% that was looking likely, although he's currently showing at over 50% in the two separate AH polls. His comments, and people's reasons for voting for him have been done to death elsewhere, so purely out of curiosity, if he hadn't made those comments how would you have voted?

Would have voted for Joan Freeman as she seems to be running for the right reasons. Gave her a number 2 and didn’t go further than that. The rest are ****e. Would have been a SF biter previously, but they’ve gone to the dogs in the last few years. Wouldn’t vote for them now.

whiskeyman · 27-10-2018 11:30AM

Try_harder wrote: »

On Late Debate - @bridsmithTD talking about Casey’s Traveller nonsense. “Last year the entire budget for Traveller Accommodation was €12m - we gave the horse racing industry €67m”

Horse racing industry worth approx 1.2billion to our economy.

How much do the travelling community contribute?

(Source https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/racing-industry-worth-over-18bn-to-economy-report-458568.html

Donald Trump · 27-10-2018 11:31AM

whiskeyman wrote: »

Horse racing industry worth approx 1.2billion to our economy.

How much do the travelling community contribute?

(Source https://amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/racing-industry-worth-over-18bn-to-economy-report-458568.html)

In fairness, some are world leaders in distribution of illegal rhino horns.

allegedly

:pac:

The Bishop Basher · 27-10-2018 11:31AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

He just played to the lowest common denominator. It worked for him. He'll get his expenses back. More money for the wealthy multi-millionaire.

I agree, it was probably more by chance then anything else but it makes no odds.

Even if we never get to see or hear from Peter Casey ever again, he’s left a legacy that will gain momentum as it has already done across Europe and the globe.

Ireland is finally waking up.

Thanks Peter.

Donald Trump · 27-10-2018 11:34AM

Rennaws wrote: »

I agree, it was probably more by chance then anything else but it makes no odds.

Even if we never get to see or hear from Peter Casey ever again, he’s left a legacy that will gain momentum as it has already done across Europe and the globe.

Ireland is finally waking up.

Thanks Peter.

So you agree, on an objective basis, that that is the best way to proceed?

I'm not even talking about "morally". But from a financial and economical perspective. Those kinds of politics are sub-optimal. They drive discord and put up barriers and stifle innovation and improvement

ideb · 27-10-2018 11:49AM

I can understand people voting for Peter Casey on the basis of his opinion of travellers and feminism. He has an opinion that people agree with. I don't agree with it, but I see that others do.

But the main reason that Peter Casey voters seem to have for their voting for him is that they are sick and tired of their taxes going towards scroungers etc. But no one seems to see the irony of this view.

I was never voting for anyone who is a millionaire, but claiming that they were willing to forego all that to take a much lower Presidential salary. It doesn't add up. Why would they give up a good business and good money if it weren't going to give them some kind of gain?

...and before anyone starts saying that the salary isn't lower if you factor in the "free" gaff, "free" foreign travel etc. - remember, that is your point - It isn't free, it is your taxes paying for it.

But then, not only have people not questioned that, but the Dragon who gets the most votes is the one who openly stated that he has never paid tax in Ireland. Something that he said he will be changing soon, presumably on the basis of looking for official office here (President or Dail). Where, while he will be paying tax, it will be from a salary paid for by the tax paying public, ie, the people who are complaining that they are paying taxes to give to people who don't pay any tax.

He has only lived in the Republic of Ireland for 2 years out of his 61 years of life. While he grew up in Derry, he went to college in the UK (Birmingham) and from what I can see, never worked in Ireland (North or South). Part of his business moved here in 2000 (European headquarters) so presumably he has brought that money into the country. Credit where it's due and all that. But really, I am puzzled as to peoples thinking on this. Someone who has been out of the Country for most of his life. He hasn't cared enough about the country to live or work here, never mind pay taxes. In the 2 years since he moved back he has run for the Seanad and the Aras, but hasn't got around to changing his green card status allowing him not to pay tax here. What is the gain for him? Is he doing it "Ar Son na Cúise"? I don't buy it.

Calhoun · 27-10-2018 12:11PM

Originally I was going to vote for MDH, as I thought the comments on expenses ect from the other side were absurd.

What turned me to Casey wasn't necessarily his comments but the reaction from it, immediately we saw an attempt at character assassination across the board and Leo telling people how they should vote.

To me Casey became a symbol of rejection to the left group think going on in the elite sections of Ireland.

ressem · 27-10-2018 12:16PM

Akrasia wrote: »

so you voted for him because he doesn't know what feminism is.

Appropriate, considering the misuse of the term racist over the last fortnight to stigmatise Casey for using stereotypes.

There are a lot of groups in society that call for affirmative action to improve the well-being of one minority group or another.
This might be a gender pay gap for feminism or Traveller unemployment, imprisonment, early mortality.

An alternative equalist philosophy is to offer individuals the opportunity to improve their own circumstances, mitigate damage from earlier missteps in life, and small supports to overcome barriers, then treat them identically to everyone else.

When costly efforts are made by a community to improve the lives of those that are suffering, but these are spurned; the community does think that they should get a good reason. Putting negotiating for land, apparently for horses, above their kids long term health does not cut it.

As for Casey, he used stereotypes. There are few of us that don't.

I tend to stereotype Sinn Feiners much more negatively than any other group. Death threats against family because of Dad's job in justice and all that. It's still prejudice I know.
If prejudice and negative discrimination against travellers is to decrease then there will have to be a lot fewer people with first and second hand strongly negative experiences with members of that community.
Many of us in the midlands went to primary school with traveller kids and had no negative impressions of them.

Despite my prejudice I can respect that Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn was far more reasoned and honest in his comments than most of the posturing politicial loudmouths; during voting to add a clause to "prescribe that Traveller culture and history" teaching in recognised schools, into the education bill.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2018-10-17/15/

And now that we've had another demonstration of the media's ability to swing the electorate; albeit not in the direction that their shrieking demagoguery advocates; will they act more responsibly in addressing the topic, not playing the man? Like **** they will. RTE were in tabloid mode, and still are today.

As for the topic, JF then MD.

ideb wrote:

But the main reason that Peter Casey voters seem to have for their voting for him...

Just... no.
Just down to the character assassination for me.

You're pigeonholing / stereotyping. Everyone voted based on what was in their head at that minute of voting. Just as most voters put feck all thought into their 2nd, 3rd candidates, and voting is intended to average out to remove the worst candidates.

Discodog · 27-10-2018 12:16PM

Rennaws wrote: »

I agree, it was probably more by chance then anything else but it makes no odds.

Even if we never get to see or hear from Peter Casey ever again, he’s left a legacy that will gain momentum as it has already done across Europe and the globe.

Ireland is finally waking up.

Thanks Peter.

I hope not & I hope that Ireland is too mature in thought for that. I support his traveller comments but I abhor the way that some might latch on to them to justify racism

Kevin Finnerty · 27-10-2018 12:18PM

I was undecided nor had any particular grà for any of the candidates up until that point.
His traveller comments aside, I hoped he might raise questions as president across a range of topics being signed through by this government, instead of having a ready pen available by the president re elect.
Higgins is an utter embarrassment as president in my view.

pumpkin4life · 27-10-2018 12:22PM

Zaph wrote: »

So it looks like Peter Casey is going to come in with about 20% of the vote rather than the pre-Traveller comments 2% that was looking likely, although he's currently showing at over 50% in the two separate AH polls. His comments, and people's reasons for voting for him have been done to death elsewhere, so purely out of curiosity, if he hadn't made those comments how would you have voted?

Joan Freeman.

I know a few people who were helped out by Pieta House and she seems genuinely likable, if a bit out of her depth here.

I was going to vote for her, but Casey being a shock to Lovely Leo and whatnot is far more important in the long run, sad to say.

strandsman · 27-10-2018 12:29PM

I can't wait to hear from the media next week, in particular one household name who drinks in a pub with a sign behind the bar saying "PRIVATE PARTY". Last week the same person was appalled at the comments from Casey toward the Travellers... Most media jocks speak from both sides of their mouth. If they spoke the truth of what they think they'ed be out of a job in the morning because it does not comply with broadcasting regulations............ free speech my rear end. I also think that when the other candidates were asked at one of the debates if they had travellers living next to them would they object, they all uncomfortably said they wouldn't mind....... seriously!

The Bishop Basher · 27-10-2018 12:38PM

ressem wrote: »

It's still prejudice I know.

It’s only prejudice if you have no reason to hold the opinion you hold.

I dislike travelers intensely as a result of countless negative interactions. That’s not prejudice.

It’s not racist either.

Discodog wrote: »

I hope not & I hope that Ireland is too mature in thought for that. I support his traveller comments but I abhor the way that some might latch on to them to justify racism

Agreed. I didn’t come across any racism though. Maybe you did but I agree, geniine racism is unacceptable.

A question for Peter Casey voters

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