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Drugs in Racing

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    amazing that there's so many posters in the know but never put up a winner

    Why would you bother putting up a 'winner' on a forum if in the know?


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    Motivator wrote: »
    He can’t give examples because he’s making it up. Some absolute bollocks being written on this thread by fellas that haven’t a clue.
    You are correct to a certain degree. Drugs is a serious problem my Daughter has moved to America as an equine vet to get away from Ireland.She refused certain stables as a west of Ireland lass she said no.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    antietam wrote: »
    You are correct to a certain degree. Drugs is a serious problem my Daughter has moved to America as an equine vet to get away from Ireland.She refused certain stables as a west of Ireland lass she said no.

    Your post makes absolutely no sense


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Good move going to America in fairness, definitely no use of drugs in horse racing over there!


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    Motivator wrote: »
    Your post makes absolutely no sense
    I have a lot to say but I cant.I think everyone knows me and I need people to talk about drugs in racing its staggering beyond belief.I personally don't care what you think of me but drugs is everything.Drugs is the staple diet of certain trainers but the HRI turn a complete blind eye because like Chicago of the 20's everyone has a price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    Good move going to America in fairness, definitely no use of drugs in horse racing over there!
    She is a gestation farm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    Horse racing has a culture of cheating.

    Its problem is drugs. It's what the public calls doping. The methods differ, as do the drugs.

    At one end of the spectrum, horsemen and veterinarians inject horses on race day with a wide variety of drugs or other foreign substances.

    This practice is one of racing's dirty little secrets, although it's no secret to those who work in the stable area of a racetrack.

    There exists a thick, bright line in racing regulation known as the 24-hour rule. This rule prohibits the administration of any drug or foreign substance, other than the anti-bleeder medication Salix (furosemide), within 24 hours of a horse's race. A few states have specific exceptions. This bright line is crossed with such regularity that its practitioners have become blind to its existence.

    Horsemen rationalize this cheating by convincing themselves that they are just “helping” the horse. Many of the race day injections are to manage pain, mitigate bleeding, or calm a fractious horse. Several of these drugs are endogenous to the horse and go undetected in post-race testing. The “helping” of the horse is code for “it's not cheating if you don't get caught.”

    https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/combating-culture-cheating/


    That's the lay of the land in the US. It's pretty brutal over there where even the best of horses are often just bits of meat to be exploited.

    It's not that bad here but monkey see, monkey do. Shur only a fool wouldn't want their horses to be in the best physical condition possible?

    It's easy to see why the prestige races would be so cutthroat that every trick would be used to win them, but what kind of access to doping could a small barely successful trainer afford for bread and butter races?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    amazing that there's so many posters in the know but never put up a winner

    This is a discussion on drugs in the sport, not a tipping/ fancies thread.

    As an aside, I see you putting up just names of horses and times they run on a daily basis with ZERO rationale, hardly worth blowing your vuvuzela about as only a fool would follow them selections blindly.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Auroras_encore


    BumperD wrote: »
    This is a discussion on drugs in the sport, not a tipping/ fancies thread.

    As an aside, I see you putting up just names of horses and times they run on a daily basis with ZERO rationale, hardly worth blowing your vuvuzela about as only a fool would follow them selections blindly.

    And yet I keep firing winners in without posting a load of waffle


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭BumperD


    And yet I keep firing winners in without posting a load of waffle

    Good , now back on topic cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Mostly Harmless


    Do not want to derail this further but... If somebody is unable to give a basic set of reasoning as to why they think a horse is a bet then I assume they have just picked the horse based on the name or colours or something like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    antietam wrote: »
    She is a gestation farm.

    Full of sperm?


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    Odelay wrote: »
    What I don't get is if so many are at it and everyone has a recording device in their pocket, how come there isn't evidence of it? If it is so widespread how come someone with a grudge hasn't gone to the press? Lord knows there is plenty of people with grudges in racing yards.
    Vincent O Brien was found guilty of drugging horses[suspendeded for a time]. Regarded as the best labs in the World are at Ballydoyle and correct me if im wrong no horse from Coolmore ever raced without blood enhancer Laxis in the jurisdiction of America.HRI board is controlled by whom,Turf Club is controlled by whom??I know the response to certain parts of my point.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 568 ✭✭✭Auroras_encore


    antietam wrote: »
    Vincent O Brien was found guilty of drugging horses[suspendeded for a time]. Regarded as the best labs in the World are at Ballydoyle and correct me if im wrong no horse from Coolmore ever raced without blood enhancer Laxis in the jurisdiction of America.HRI board is controlled by whom,Turf Club is controlled by whom??I know the response to certain parts of my point.
    it's amazing how drink gets to you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭tryfix


    antietam wrote: »
    Vincent O Brien was found guilty of drugging horses[suspendeded for a time]. Regarded as the best labs in the World are at Ballydoyle and correct me if im wrong no horse from Coolmore ever raced without blood enhancer Laxis in the jurisdiction of America.HRI board is controlled by whom,Turf Club is controlled by whom??I know the response to certain parts of my point.

    He has run them both on Lasix and off it in the past. The preference of most European trainers used to be that they didn't want to run their horses on it, but when in Rome do as the Romans do or else you're not going to give your owners a level playing field.
    On the face of it, a similar argument should apply to Lasix, the anti-bleeding agent that is given to American horses almost as a matter of course. It is legal on racedays in the States, so why not join in? And both Freddie Head and Sir Michael Stoute did just that, as Goldikova and Conduit, who ran "clean" when winning the Mile and the Turf at Santa Anita in 2008, both received Lasix before following up on Saturday.


    Aidan O'Brien, meanwhile, went the other way. His only runner on Lasix was Man Of Iron - who was also his only winner. This fact was swiftly seized upon in some quarters as a sign that the drugs do work and that the entire Ballydoyle team should have got them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/nov/09/obrien-rejects-lasix-breeders-cup


    Of all the racing outfits in the world team Coolmore have to be particularly mindful that if they have a few positive tests it could do them serious commercial damage.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    tryfix wrote: »
    He has run them both on Lasix and off it in the past. The preference of most European trainers used to be that they didn't want to run their horses on it, but when in Rome do as the Romans do or else you're not going to give your owners a level playing field.
    Absolutely.

    Aidan O Brien - Almost every horse in America runs on Lasix and obviously it is well documented and well proven that it is not a disadvantage (1999).

    But to answer the question.

    Rip Van Winkle, Mastercraftsman and Lillie Langtry all ran without Lasix in 2003 for O Brien at the Bredeers Cup


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    it's amazing how drink gets to you
    Based on your age, can you understand ??I cannot understand Morons that apply for employment that tell me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    amazing that there's so many posters in the know but never put up a winner
    Maybe its because of the brilliant posters here that are trying to highlight a serious problem that HRI are turning a blind eye due to [WHO RUNS THE SHOW].


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    it's amazing how drink gets to you
    Explain that post based on my evidence of absolute fact.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Motivator


    ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

    Although it’s correct, it’s still a misleading headline if that makes sense. It’s not as if the horses were drugged up to their eyeballs, there were traces of substances banned on race days in their system. The race day banned substances are allowed to be administered to the horses in their yards but it’s obviously the margins are razor thin here. No two horses are genetically identical so I would imagine a substance can take longer to break down and exit one horses system than it does another. Factors such as weight, age, gender and who knows what else would be the reasons why some substances might take longer to break down in a horses system. I’d know Martin Brassil, not overly well admittedly, but I can assure you he’s not going to be purposely doping horses. Being found guilty of “doping” using a substance that is allowed to be given to a horse is unfortunate but rules are rules. Hopefully no reputations get tarnished here because the board and the vets agreed to wave the fines dished out because of the circumstances. Unfortunately this story just gives the foil hat brigade more ammunition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    It may very well be the case Motivator that they are margin calls and that the cases do not involve the use of anabolic steroid type stuff. The point is that the new regime demands a zero tolerance approach and that vets should be able to advise on the relevant withdrawal period before a horse can race if they have been receiving some form of treatment.

    You can see where some trainers have fallen foul of the new regime due to their forward thinking using alternative medicines as a horse tonic. Seaweed is popping up as the source of positive tests for arsenic. Surprised the racingpost concentrated on Brassil, as Stephen Mahon has had 3 different horses test positive for arsenic this year (2 of which won and were subsequently disqualified) and another for cobalt.

    The racingpost article is also misleading in saying that 3 winners were disqualified. There have been 13 this year that involved winners that fell foul of the rules.

    Adrian Joyce (Trainer), Prohibited Substance Referral – Navan, 14th July, 2018
    Martin Brassil (Trainer), Prohibited Substance Referral – Galway, 1st August, 2018
    Aidan Fogarty (Trainer), Prohibited Substance Referral – Wexford, 27th July, 2018
    Patrick G. Kelly (Handler) - Referral - Belclare, 11th March, 2018
    S.J. Mahon (Trainer) Referral - Ballinrobe 28th May, 2018, Tipperary 24th May, 2018, Limerick 20th April, 2018, Roscommon 12th June, 2018
    John J. Hanlon (Trainer) Referral - Galway, 2nd Aug, 2018
    D.K. Weld (Trainer) Referral - The Curragh, 29th June, 2018
    Gordon Elliott Referral - Kilbeggan, 20th July, 2018
    James W. Doyle (Handler), Prohibited Substance Referral – Muskerry (F) Dawstown - 7th May 2018 Fermanagh (H) Point to Point - 19th May 2018
    Michael Hourigan - "Old Head" Prohibited Substance - North Kerry (H) Point to Point, 26th May 2018
    Henry de Bromhead (Trainer) - Prohibited Substance Referral, Clonmel - 17th May 2018
    Dermot P. O'Brien (Trainer) Prohibited Substance Referral - Tramore - 15th April 2018
    J.A. Stack (Trainer) Prohibited Substance Referral - Cork, 31st March 2018
    Denis Gerard Hogan (Handler), Prohibited Substance Referral Killeagh (H) Point to Point - 14th January 2018
    Michael Winters (Trainer), Prohibited Substance Referral Cork - 19th November 2017

    The false positive in Dermot Weld's case is crazy and the filly should have been allowed keep the race as it was endogenous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Two Newcastle staff suspended in doping case, claims David Easterby
    https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/newcastle-staff-have-been-suspended-in-doping-case-claims-david-easterby/350832

    Ladies First, 6/4f in a mile 0-75 handicap ridden 3f out, finished 8th of 9, beaten 22 lengths, tested positive for a beta-blocking drug.
    She won her previous race, a 0-80 handicap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭antietam


    I apologize to the superior knowledge that this site has over me.


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