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First Man

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    #62
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    I was going to say that Yuri Gagarin as the first man in space is probably a more important milestone, but it was the space race, at the height of the cold war, to leave out the planting of the flag is leaving out a very iconic, symbolic part of history... for what reason?


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    #63
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    kerplun k wrote: »
    I think once again, it’s the people who haven’t watched these films that are ones making these ridiculous complaints.

    As is the usual.

    This is more a deliberately manufactured attempt to rile the more simple minded on the right though.

    "Those gawd damn hullyword liberuls...they don't want to make murica great..."


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    #64
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,206 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    pleas advice wrote: »
    for what reason?

    Here’s some, beyond the obvious that a director can put in or leave out whatever they damn please :)

    Basic pacing reasons, maybe even technical ones. The film leaves out multiple significant aspects of the moon voyage - including much of the trip itself, and pretty much the entirety of the return journey / re-entry.

    The film is defiantly focused on the human aspects of the story. In that sense, the ‘one small step...’ moment is intimate and universal in the way the flag planting wouldn’t be.

    Throughout the film, in one key sequence in particular but also through many of the dramatic decisions, Chazelle reflects on whether the moon landing was worth it in terms of the huge human and financial cost. He retains IMO a healthy and sensible scepticism in that regard, while expressing great respect for the people involved in the feat while still questioning the underlying motivations of the project. In that sense, a flag planting scene could feel like an odd and clunky departure from some of the underlying themes explored in the film.

    And I repeat once again: the flag is in the film anyway.


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    #65
    quad_red
    Registered Users Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I was going to say that Yuri Gagarin as the first man in space is probably a more important milestone, but it was the space race, at the height of the cold war, to leave out the planting of the flag is leaving out a very iconic, symbolic part of history... for what reason?

    Because the film isn’t about the Cold War. It’s about Neil Armstrong. His experiences and his point of view. And planting the flag wasn’t what drove him.

    Indeed reading a books that talked to all the moon walkers they themselves were surprised by how emotional and philosophical their perspectives were whatever their political motivations. Human politics seemed small as they looked back on earth.


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    #66
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    p to the e wrote: »
    sovcosm.png

    while that's memetastic and all, they bring this up in the movie with a nice visual of the guy drawing dots around the earth on a board representing the Russian's achievements and drawing a line onto a second board to represent going to the moon, the idea being the US needed to do something to leave the Russians clearly in the shade.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #67
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Good film. Really enjoyed it.

    Audio and visuals were stunning. Made up for any other shortcomings to be honest.

    Story itself was unexpectedly emotional. Left the cinema feeling pretty sad and reflective, which wasn't what I'd hoped for but not really a fault I suppose.

    Gosling was his typical unemotive self. While that may have been true to the character of Neil Armstrong it's a bit of a pity that it's also, well, just typical Ryan Gosling. There was very little there to separate it from most of his other performances.


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    #68
    Conchir
    Registered Users Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Conchir


    Just saw this last night, I really enjoyed it.

    The landing sequence was amazing. The score, the visuals, I just sat there enthralled for the whole scene.


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    #69
    Telecaster58
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Telecaster58


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I was going to say that Yuri Gagarin as the first man in space is probably a more important milestone, but it was the space race, at the height of the cold war, to leave out the planting of the flag is leaving out a very iconic, symbolic part of history... for what reason?

    Probably for the same reason that Armstrong says "one step for man..." and not "one step for an American....."


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    #70
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    "One small step for man. One giant f**k you to Russia!"

    * Neil slams the flag in the ground, touchdown style *

    "WOOOO!! U.S.A!!"


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    #71
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Enjoyed the film, but didn't have the usual post cinema adrenalin feeling.

    But, by far, FAR the most annoying thing about this movie was the Gemini pronunciation.


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    #72
    Shred
    Registered Users Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭Shred


    I saw this last Friday and thought it was phenomenal, I'll very likely be seeing it again before it leaves the cinema.


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    #73
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭emo72


    Surprised the Aldrin Armstrong first man on the moon argument wasn't mentioned. Protocol up to that point was Aldrin should have went first, and the commander stayed on board. They changed for that mission. That would have been fascinating to see how that developed. I know Aldrin was upset over that.


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    #74
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Telecaster58 wrote: »
    Probably for the same reason that Armstrong says "one step for man..." and not "one step for an American....."

    he didn't, he said one step for a man , the "a" was staticed out

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #75
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    One small step for a big man


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    #76
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    emo72 wrote: »
    Surprised the Aldrin Armstrong first man on the moon argument wasn't mentioned. Protocol up to that point was Aldrin should have went first, and the commander stayed on board. They changed for that mission. That would have been fascinating to see how that developed. I know Aldrin was upset over that.

    Didn't know that, which kind of makes your point. And it's really the difference of being remembered for as long as there are human records or being forgotten about in a few hundred years. Who followed Columbus onshore? :)

    But, Aldrin doesn't come out the best in the movie. He did say it was a shame Armstrong wouldn't be around for the 50th anniversary.

    silverharp wrote: »
    he didn't, he said one step for a man , the "a" was staticed out

    So research seems to suggest. Nasa still have the [a] in the quote in parenthesis


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    #77
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,719 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    So seen this yesterday in the IMAX. The sound and the visuals were amazing although I was not so keen on the parts with the crazy shaking where you got it hard to make anything out and thought some outside views of what was happening would have been good too but the 2 hours 20 mins flew buy. I did feel like I was actually there. They were brave men doing things under crazy stress and taking huge risks to do it. It would have been nice ff there had of been a summery about Neil Armstrong at the end of the film do. It the film could have been dedicated to him or just said a bit about him and when he died.

    It was a pity that the space race died after this as I think if it had of gone on maybe we would have a colony on the moon now and maybe even have gotten to Mars. Maybe the human race would be in a better place than it is now as well because of that.


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    #78
    p to the e
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭p to the e


    If we're throwing out some space trivia I always liked this one:

    Michael Collins (3rd astronaut) is the only human being, alive or dead, that isn't in this photo.

    apollo11_lm_michaelcollins.jpg.CROP.cq5dam_web_1280_1280_jpeg.jpg


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    #79
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,474 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    I'm going to go against the grain and say that this is 2h20m of my life that I'm never going to get back. A slow, dry movie that would have benefited from leaving 45 minutes on the cutting room floor.


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    #80
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,673 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    emo72 wrote: »
    Surprised the Aldrin Armstrong first man on the moon argument wasn't mentioned. Protocol up to that point was Aldrin should have went first, and the commander stayed on board. They changed for that mission. That would have been fascinating to see how that developed. I know Aldrin was upset over that.

    Well up to that point there hadn't been an attempt at a landing. Apollo 10 was never going to land on the moon and John young and gene cernan didn't try as the LM wasnt fuelled fully. I don't see an issue as they were hardly going to have the commander of the mission go out second and not be the first man to step on the moon. The protocol was about EVAs aka spacewalks and the commander did stay inside during the Gemini programme but this was a different programme. I'm sure that buzz aldrin would have preferred to have been first but he wasn't. And I don't recall there being any animosity between the two men or I've never read there was.


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    #81
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,673 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Enjoyed the film, but didn't have the usual post cinema adrenalin feeling.

    But, by far, FAR the most annoying thing about this movie was the Gemini pronunciation.

    I've not seen the film but if it's been pronounced the way NASA pronounced it then yes it's different to how you'd normally pronounce it but it's one thing.


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    #82
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    The decision about who would go to the surface were made long before they ever launched, because their training was so intense, that even the slightest change to who was supposed to do what, meant rewriting training sequences and everything they did was rehearsed to death. Aldrin was more media savvy and more extrovert than Armstrong, who was no shrinking violet but preferred to step back a bit. One thing that still stands is the respect that they held for each other as professionals, even when they disagreed at a personal level about many things.


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    #83
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Mr E wrote: »
    I'm going to go against the grain and say that this is 2h20m of my life that I'm never going to get back. A slow, dry movie that would have benefited from leaving 45 minutes on the cutting room floor.

    Are you implying it needed to be......jazzed up :cool:


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    #84
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,673 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    The decision about who would go to the surface were made long before they ever launched, because their training was so intense, that even the slightest change to who was supposed to do what, meant rewriting training sequences and everything they did was rehearsed to death. Aldrin was more media savvy and more extrovert than Armstrong, who was no shrinking violet but preferred to step back a bit. One thing that still stands is the respect that they held for each other as professionals, even when they disagreed at a personal level about many things.

    When you say go to the surface what way do you mean it ? As in land and walk on the moon ? That was decided when the Apollo 8 prime crew was decided and that was 1967 sometime as there was a back up crew and prime crew rotation so the Apollo 11 crew was back up to Apollo 8 crew so by the rotation in place barring any changes(and the 8 and 9 crews swapped and the missions changed) they were always going to be first on the moon.


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    #85
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Mr E wrote: »
    I'm going to go against the grain and say that this is 2h20m of my life that I'm never going to get back. A slow, dry movie that would have benefited from leaving 45 minutes on the cutting room floor.

    I''m with you big time. Just didn't do it for me. Too long and too much shaking camera moments. The person sitting beside me in the cinema was actually snoring half way through which says it all.


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    #86
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    quad_red wrote: »
    Indeed reading a books that talked to all the moon walkers they themselves were surprised by how emotional and philosophical their perspectives were whatever their political motivations. Human politics seemed small as they looked back on earth.
    A bit OT but caught this last night which is worth 6/7 mins about how being in space changes your bigger picture and realisation that were in this together.
    https://bigthink.com/videos/chris-hadfield-how-space-travel-expands-your-mind


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    #87
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Are you implying it needed to be......jazzed up :cool:

    Could have done with more 'splosions!


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    #88
    Gwynplaine
    Registered Users Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Gwynplaine


    I thoroughly enjoyed it. The time flew by. Only thing I didn't like was that Jason Clarke fella, can't stand him. Big square head on him. Head is dyed off him too.


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    #89
    El Duda
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭El Duda


    Just out of this and not impressed. It's a bit far fetched.



    Seriously though, it is too long, quite boring and the attempt at an emotional connection didn't land.


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    #90
    Pero_Bueno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭Pero_Bueno


    OK so finally saw the film.
    Fantastic, and so sad actually, I was really
    welling up at the start and when he was on the moon and dropped the necklace into the crater ...

    Was more about the man himself then the mission, great acting by Ryan Gosling - barely noticed it was him.
    As for the flag, yeah seems it's a big hissy fit over nothing.
    I mean you see it in the background (fair enough in the distance), you also see one of his sons raising the flag outside the home, plus the many patriotic/flag images throughout the movie.
    Then again I'm not American so it won't bother me as much.

    Solid film 8/10.


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    #91
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Gwynplaine wrote: »
    I thoroughly enjoyed it. The time flew by. Only thing I didn't like was that Jason Clarke fella, can't stand him. Big square head on him. Head is dyed off him too.

    And what were they thinking casting that bald lad for Buzz Aldrin ?
    Buzz is almost 90 and has still a full head of hair on him !!

    I really enjoyed it I must say, I was slightly disappointed that Neil Armstrong didn't say "..... and good luck Mr. Gorsky" after the famous first words. :p


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