Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

Huntergonzo · 22-10-2018 10:05AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You couldn't have timed that post any better!

Why what's he up to, hope he didn't apologize or anything silly like that?

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2018 10:07AM

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Why what's he up to, hope he didn't apologize or anything silly like that?

You proved the point I was making in my last post.

Wheeliebin30 · 22-10-2018 10:08AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Well here's another belter for you.

There is a creche local to me that is doing really well over the last few years, its expanding big time and taking over more and more rental units in the town.

It opens early for breakfast clubs, and is open to teatime, so kids can be there all day. Operates over the summer too.

I have it on reliable information that of the over 80 families who have kids in it, 23 of them have both parents NOT working. And some of these kids are pre-school age. So although both parents are available all day to watch their own kids, they are still in a creche, paid for by you and me, so their parents have the whole day to themselves.

I kid you not.

Yep rampant in our crèche too.

Both parents dropping their kids to school free of charge and off to drink tea and Jeremy Kyle for the day.

While we get screwed with extorniate prices.

endacl · 22-10-2018 10:10AM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I reckon his sentiment's are held by a majority, a small one tho. Maybe 52-55% of the adult population.

Why are they so special, their culture certainly isn't enriching.

Their culture is crippling. And state support for its maintenance is abusive.

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 10:12AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I watched the Week In Politics last night. They gave the election 5 or 6 minutes and Casey got about a minute of that. And his traveller comments very little mention.
He might get plenty of chat on rant forums etc. But where it matters he is just like the rest of them.
Will be interesting to see how much he will rise (and he will) in the polls and even more to see how many are arsed to get off said arse to vote for him.

Disagree with this Francie.

His traveller rant has been pr gold for him.

Nobody knew or cared what he did or said prior to his comments now he’s a mini celebrity.

I personally don’t think he’d be a good president but he raised some valid issues.

I’m considering voting for him and I expect many more are too.

Two weeks ago if I bothered at all I probably would just have given Mickey D the sentimental vote and laughed off the notion of voting for Casey.

I think he’ll poll well.

TbL

22-10-2018 10:15AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When TD's don't emerge to represent people who have 'concerns' it generally tells you something about the scale of those concerns.
It's very easy to rant online, it takes energy and commitment to do something tangible.
It's clear to me that these 'concerns' are more annoyances because the electorate are not voting for change.
They will treat this election (that can't change anything) as a fun way to rock the kasbah but revert to type come the real elections. Sad but true.

But I will be voicing these concerns once again when the general and local elections come around. I can only speak for myself as can you.

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 10:17AM

Brae100 wrote: »

The ethnicity question about travellers is interesting. Is 350 years really enough to establish a separate ethnicity? Evolution, at its quickest, usually takes millennia for species to establish significantly different traits. So in this case, it would appear that the distinct ethnicity claim is being made purely on the basis of different cultural practices. If that is the scientific definition of ethnicity, that's fair enough.

But I'm struggling to understand how being critical of cultural practices can be deemed to be racist. 350 years of living a different lifestyle does not create a different race.

No one is claiming Travellers are a separate race except people who are being obtuse and/or disingenuous. There has been a few posters here guilty of that.

Evolution has feck all to do with it as that is about species not culture.

What is being said is that Travellers are ethnically different from the majority of Irish society due to remaining a culturally insular group while the rest of our ancestors diverged.

Singling one specific ethnic group out for criticism does fall under the general banner of racism.

lalababa · 22-10-2018 10:19AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The way i am treating this presidential election is as a wake up call before there is a general election. I have absolutely no idea why there is a president in the first place when they have no power. If they’re only legal role is to sign off on stuff, why not have the head of the Supreme Court sign off on it?

Sorry, I’m sure he’s a very nice man and all but MDH has absolutely nothing in common with me. I can’t relate to him. If any of the other candidates had had the guts to talk about the elephants running riot around the rooms, I may have voted for them. But they chose to not speak about my concerns either.

Really! It is a very important role. Can't do anything? Has no power? Why do other heads of state meet the president? He has influence, he has face to face interactions (both public &private) with VIPs that DO have actual power.
Also a successful meet & greet interaction is very important in international relations especially as we are in the EU.
People are people, why do you think politicians shake so many hands.

Geuze · 22-10-2018 10:20AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Well here's another belter for you.

There is a creche local to me that is doing really well over the last few years, its expanding big time and taking over more and more rental units in the town.

It opens early for breakfast clubs, and is open to teatime, so kids can be there all day. Operates over the summer too.

I have it on reliable information that of the over 80 families who have kids in it, 23 of them have both parents NOT working. And some of these kids are pre-school age. So although both parents are available all day to watch their own kids, they are still in a creche, paid for by you and me, so their parents have the whole day to themselves.

I kid you not.

Yes, I spoke to a proprietor of a crech/pre-school and they confirmed that this happens.

Yet again, Ireland gets the priorities the wrong way around.

We should be offering subsidised childcare to workers.

Workers should be protected by the welfare state, not non-workers.

The high horse brigade · 22-10-2018 10:25AM

Pat Kenny is doing a good job of backing Peter Casey on the welfare state comments, reading out all the texts agreeing with Peter

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 10:30AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No one is claiming Travellers are a separate race except people who are being obtuse and/or disingenuous. There has been a few posters here guilty of that.

Evolution has feck all to do with it as that is about species not culture.

What is being said is that Travellers are ethnically different from the majority of Irish society due to remaining a culturally insular group while the rest of our ancestors diverged.

Singling one specific ethnic group out for criticism does fall under the general banner of racism.

So do the people that only speak Irish qualify as an ethnic group, what about people living mainly on our islands.

My son plays an awful lot of Fortnite and rarely leaves the house and speaks to me in unintelligible mono syllables, is he part of an ethnic minority?

It’s bollocks, we are all equal citizens with equal rights and obligations

Anything else is just divisive crap!

TbL

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 10:31AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Well here's another belter for you.

There is a creche local to me that is doing really well over the last few years, its expanding big time and taking over more and more rental units in the town.

It opens early for breakfast clubs, and is open to teatime, so kids can be there all day. Operates over the summer too.

I have it on reliable information that of the over 80 families who have kids in it, 23 of them have both parents NOT working. And some of these kids are pre-school age. So although both parents are available all day to watch their own kids, they are still in a creche, paid for by you and me, so their parents have the whole day to themselves.

I kid you not.

The fact that this is because that is the way government decided to 'subsidise' childcare is I suppose besides the point?

Every child in entitled to a certain amount of free childcare regardless of income - just as every child is entitled to child benefit regardless of parent's income.

It has nothing to do with Social Welfare.

Wheeliebin30 · 22-10-2018 10:32AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The fact that this is because that is the way government decided to 'subsidise' childcare is I suppose besides the point?

Every child in entitled to a certain amount of free childcare regardless of income - just as every child is entitled to child benefit regardless of parent's income.

It has nothing to do with Social Welfare.

Yes 3 hours a day for working people, 8 hours a day for sponging wasters.

22-10-2018 10:36AM

lalababa wrote: »

Really! It is a very important role. Can't do anything? Has no power? Why do other heads of state meet the president? He has influence, he has face to face interactions (both public &private) with VIPs that DO have actual power.
Also a successful meet & greet interaction is very important in international relations especially as we are in the EU.
People are people, why do you think politicians shake so many hands.

Have you any examples of how his influence has worked?

McMurphy · 22-10-2018 10:37AM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Pat Kenny is doing a good job of backing Peter Casey on the welfare state comments, reading out all the texts agreeing with Peter

Yeah listening to it in the office here, Casey will poll extremely well if the texts being read out by Kenny is any thing to go by.(neverminf the general consensus on social media being of a similar note)

It's keeping what would have been an otherwise mundane coronation interesting.

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 10:37AM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

So do the people that only speak Irish qualify as an ethnic group, what about people living mainly on our islands.

My son plays an awful lot of Fortnite and rarely leaves the house and speaks to me in unintelligible mono syllables, is he part of an ethnic minority?

It’s bollocks, we are all equal citizens with equal rights and obligations

Anything else is just divisive crap!

TbL

Nobody in Ireland speaks only Irish - there are people (heavily subsidised) who live in predominantly Irish speaking areas.
Enormous amount of money are spent to ensure that those who wish to communicate through Irish are accommodated.

Bad example there.

If your son manages to reproduce maybe in 400 years his descendants will be an ethnic minority of monosyllabic grunting gamers.

No point getting snarky with me. I am simply outlining things are they are defined. I didn't define them.

tretorn · 22-10-2018 10:42AM

It might be to do with the fact that the more time the children are away from the parents the better.

If the child is stuck in front of the TV watching cartoons all day long and eating rubbish he or she isnt being socialised. Lots of these children arrive in school and they dont even know how to hold a knife or fork,they are obese too from being fed food like nuggets and chips and frozen pizza everyday of the week.

At least in creche someone will teach by example and the food for the most part is probably healthy. Hopefully these children will then realise that there is an alternative way to parent than the one they experience and its also better to be in a creche than traipsing around with your parents while they shoplift.

A friend works in one of these creches and the children are fed healthy food while in creche but some are still obese. They dont spend much time at home but in the time they are there the parents still manage to feed them enough crap to make them unwell.

Its seriously time now for Child Benefit to be cut, we dont know if it will stop these stupid parents having too many children but at least by cutting child benefit we could see would this have an effect.

Are the fathers of these children pursued for child support, is the child support docked straight from their wages or dole payments. I am wondering how some men can have four or five children with different women.

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 10:43AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Nobody in Ireland speaks only Irish - there are people (heavily subsidised) who live in predominantly Irish speaking areas.
Enormous amount of money are spent to ensure that those who wish to communicate through Irish are accommodated.

Bad example there.

If your son manages to reproduce maybe in 400 years his descendants will be an ethnic minority of monosyllabic grunting gamers.

No point getting snarky with me. I am simply outlining things are they are defined. I didn't define them.

Who is getting snarky.

I think your argument is incorrect.

So answer the question, do people who speak mainly Irish and have mainly Irish speaking cultural activities like singing, dancing etc qualify as an ethnic minority?

What’s the amount of money spent on them got to do with it?

TbL

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 10:43AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes 3 hours a day for working people, 8 hours a day for sponging wasters.

Ah yes - I see we are racing to the bottom full speed ahead.

Peter better get in a comment about Immigrants soon so he can have a hat trick.
Shame the gheys are so popular now, that's taken the homophobe vote off the table - dare he risk it??
Maybe something about Trans people? That might get some more pitchforks waving.

tretorn · 22-10-2018 10:48AM

I really want him to say something about immigrants, I was looking at the Rotunda programme and most of the parents were non national and couldnt even speak english.

How are so many of these people arriving here, I am beginning to think we have no immigrant policy at all.

We spend literally millions on free legal aid for people who have no right to be in the country and then after a decade of this nonsense a seat is booked on a plane to deport them. Then the do gooders start their do gooding and frustrate the deportation process and some TD for a few likes on facebook makes a decision to let an illegal immigrant stay. Illegal immigrant gets on facebook to tell his fellow countrymen that the Irish are a soft touch and then another plane load of economic migrants take off.

c.p.w.g.w · 22-10-2018 10:49AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Ah yes - I see we are racing to the bottom full speed ahead.

Peter better get in a comment about Immigrants soon so he can have a hat trick.
Shame the gheys are so popular now, that's taken the homophobe vote off the table - dare he risk it??
Maybe something about Trans people? That might get some more pitchforks waving.

Well he already did comments on them. When he spoke about how diverse we as a nation. Mentioned all the polish living here, many of whom work jobs that aren't "good enough" for the Irish. Majority of immigrants work and contribute to society here in Ireland.

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 10:50AM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Who is getting snarky.

I think your argument is incorrect.

So answer the question, do people who speak mainly Irish and have mainly Irish speaking cultural activities like singing, dancing etc qualify as an ethnic minority?

What’s the amount of money spent on them got to do with it?

TbL

It's not my argument.
It is how these things are defined.
so no - speaking the official language of a country does not qualify one as a member of an ethnic minority in that country.

However. doing these things in another country could - the argument as to whether the Irish are defined as an ethnic minority in the UK is on-going for example.

tretorn · 22-10-2018 10:53AM

I asked already in the thread.

Can someone please explain what is positive about traveller culture and why did they qualify for ethnic status.

I only want one example of something positive about travellers, something to dilute the image of travellerhood that Margaret Cash and John Connors have put before us.

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 10:58AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's not my argument.
It is how these things are defined.
so no - speaking the official language of a country does not qualify one as a member of an ethnic minority in that country.

However. doing these things in another country could - the argument as to whether the Irish are defined as an ethnic minority in the UK is on-going for example.

Ok you obviously are better versed than I on what qualifies as an ethnic minority.

But what about islanders with their own way of life, do you see where this is going...

Treating everyone equally is the only way to go, anything else just leads to problems in my opinion.

TbL

Ps. If the Irish in UK become an ethnic minority again that just crazy, they would be citizens of that country and should abide by the laws and obligations of that country.

The world is gone mad

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 10:58AM

tretorn wrote: »

I asked already in the thread.

Can someone please explain what is positive about traveller culture and why did they qualify for ethnic status.

I only want one example of something positive about travellers, something to dilute the image of travellerhood that Margaret Cash and John Connors have put before us.

Music.

A huge amount of amazing musicians like the Furey brothers are Travellers. They kept the tradition of Irish music alive.

22-10-2018 11:01AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Music.

A huge amount of amazing musicians like the Furey brothers are Travellers. They kept the tradition of Irish music alive.

Music is part of all cultures

Bannasidhe · 22-10-2018 11:03AM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Ok you obviously are better versed than I on what qualifies as an ethnic minority.

But what about islanders with their own way of life, do you see where this is going...

Treating everyone equally is the only way to go, anything else just leads to problems in my opinion.

TbL

IF the islands hadn't mostly been depopulated and had remained as separate cultural identities then they would have qualified. But they were so they didn't so they don't.

See where this is going?

Well given the appalling terms used to describe ALL Travellers in this very thread which went unsanctioned by MODS I would say we are far from equality.

FrancieBrady · 22-10-2018 11:04AM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Ok you obviously are better versed than I on what qualifies as an ethnic minority.

But what about islanders with their own way of life, do you see where this is going...

Treating everyone equally is the only way to go, anything else just leads to problems in my opinion.

TbL

Ps. If the Irish in UK become an ethnic minority again that just crazy, they would be citizens of that country and should abide by the laws and obligations of that country.

The world is gone mad

Why do you see Special Ethnic Minority status as a threat to your 'equality'?

Can you expand on why a symbolic gesture to foster inclusiveness and parity of esteem threatens you?

ThebitterLemon · 22-10-2018 11:06AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why do you see Special Ethnic Minority status as a threat to your 'equality'?

Can you expand on why a symbolic gesture to foster inclusiveness and parity of esteem threatens you?

Francie the words “special...status” are mutually exclusive and not conducive to an egalitarian society

TbL

tretorn · 22-10-2018 11:07AM

Ok, I have heard of the Fureys, anything else.

Where is the evidence they kept the tradition of Irish music alive, there are lots of traditional Irish musicians so why dont they all qualify for ethnic status.

The travellers who used to live near a retail park that I am familiar with are a blight on the local community. They have burglared every house within miles and are brazen enough to break and enter in the middle of the day. One actually broke the glass in the front door at midday in one house which is on a busy road, the house owner was in his back garden and he saw a traveller with a hurley( the owners) hurley standing in his kitchen.

These travellers would also wait at the retail park for delivery of expensive computer equipment at 6 AM in the morning, while the stuff was being unloaded into the stores the travellers would help themselves to laptops, Computers, Ipads, huge TVS, this went on all the time.

I am genuinely mystified about this amazing traveller culture, its repeated in the media like its some holy grail but when you ask for examples someone like bannaside says a traveller family played the tin whistle well.

There isnt much evidence of travellers playing anything but the fool now.

Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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