Dublin Bus selling some of its VTs

124 is the number it can carry and I know of numerous occasions there was way more then that on it.

They can carry alright.

Best thing to drive in the wet they are tail happy, great fun to drive.

bk wrote: »

On paper they have great capacity, but in the real world I wonder if they often actually come close to it. Their long length and in particular single door and lack of standing space makes me think that the real world capacity is far less. I've often seen VT's fly by without stopping, with a couple of people standing by the driver, but clearly lots of standing room behind and empty seats upstairs.

Travel the N11 any morning and you’ll see how full they get.

It’s a strange decision not to replace them with similar capacity vehicles. Considering you need three SGs to meet the capacity of two VTs, it means an extra driver and fuel etc. At a time when passenger numbers are increasing rapidly it’s odd.

Is this another "plate" decision that's driving this, or is there any reason these are being sold if they've had a (relatively) easier life than comparable AV's of that vintage?

I know they're supposed to be hard on tyres. Can't imagine the diesel is cheap, but is it a decision that makes sense given their capacity until a better replacement (like maybe that new Tri-Ax bk refers to) is found?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Is this another "plate" decision that's driving this, or is there any reason these are being sold if they've had a (relatively) easier life than comparable AV's of that vintage?

I know they're supposed to be hard on tyres. Can't imagine the diesel is cheap, but is it a decision that makes sense given their capacity until a better replacement (like maybe that new Tri-Ax bk refers to) is found?

The NTA had intimated that they might consider relaxing their current 14 year limit for PSO vehicles.
However it appears that they decided that there is enough funding for shiny new machines,even if these will come nowhere near directly replacing the VT's.

These machines will sell rapidly,and re-enter service equally so,in the hands of a private operator,less constrained by the wishes of eager young degree holding laptop bearers.

There is little indication as yet,that the NTA allocate any more priority to effective Bus design,than they do to preserving the sanctity of the Official Languages Act

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'm guessing it's because these buses are now approaching 14 years old.

My point is that if they are (relatively - by bus standards) low mileage and still a lot of life in them then the question should have been asked whether they should be disposed of now rather than kept going another while if the capacity differences over the newer models made sense to do so.

But then, this is a country obsessed with reg plates and where anything over 10 years or 100k km becomes a obsolete deathtrap, so not that surprising really.

As I've said on this forum before, it makes little sense to me to be disposing of perfectly good vehicles that are still then in daily use elsewhere "just cause" - and I don't buy that fancier front-ends and WiFi are a worthwhile trade for the expense of a new bus.

The VT's are a great asset to Dublin Bus. They are fast, reliable & are wonderful for easing capacity issues. I still think they badly needed to stay in Dublin. This has to be one of the most unnecessary things that Dublin Bus has done to try & run high capacity routes in Dublin. To get rid of high capacity buses when coming at a time when the population in Dublin is increasing is an odd decision to make. It does not give Dublin Bus any signals that they are to escape some suffering because of this decision. The commuters will not like this move when it start to give an affect on their most used high capacity route.

I still think the NTA have made a serious error in not allowing funding for new tri-axle buses to come in for Dublin Bus. If they were really serious in assuming that retaining the same level of capacity for these routes along the N11 will succeed with the loss of the VT's overtime; they could be in for a big shock. It is currently one of the biggest QBC's being used in Dublin. We're looking at a future which is going to be fully dependent on 2 axle double deck buses going along the N11 all the time. The future of people using Dublin Bus along this area is not to become rosy. If all those VT's were gone by tomorrow; commuters would not be happy with that outcome at all before their commute comes in Monday morning.

The VT's will be sadly missed by people when they inevitably all go off from Dublin Bus fleet altogether. When that time comes to us; it won't be a easy switch to permanent use for using 2 axle double deck buses. GAI have done it already with taking over the 75 two weeks ago even though when DB were using some of them on that route as they were a great help to ease capacity during the morning & evening peak times. It was remarked here on boards recently that the 75 with GAI had problems with suffering big delays in the mornings with traffic in Dublin. When large numbers of people begin to accumulate at bus stops in periods of heavy traffic when GAI are running the 75 at that crucial peak period of the day; it then starts to become a big potential problem if was not addressed in future.

If people living along high capacity route corridors find that they are being compromised with using smaller double decks on the N11. Their use of the car could turn into quite a domino effect in decreasing usage for buses in that area and this will be happening before BusConnects is eventually implemented in Dublin. Bus passengers numbers are growing in Dublin for a good few years. In a hypothetical sense if BusConnects here gets delayed again by the NTA until after 2020; what would bus usage be like by then along the N11? What would you think will happen if bus usage along this area was going through this scenario?

You say Vt's Only take 34 more passengers than a regular double decker!! So over a 3rd more than an SG which are heaps of junk!! The vts should be kept without question.

Sorry if that post is not clear but that is in response to Stephens post above.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Hopefully Bus Connects sorts things out some stops are bad particularly around the city centre I'm not denying that . While some drivers are great there is a cohort of mainly senior drivers who refuse to use middle doors even if it is perfectly safe to do so.

If the proper infrastructure is put no reason why we can't have three door buses sure even London manages them despite the fact the new Routemasters were a complete waste of money.

Perhaps you might reflect on the generalization regarding individual Busdrivers (Senior or not),as it really does little to add to the current thread.

If you are offering an opinion on Centre Door useage as a passenger,well and good,but a Busdrivers opinion of "Perfectly Safe" and your own,may well differ for perfectly valid reasons,even if these are not visible to you at the point of exit.

The regulations on Bus Stop design & Installation can be found in the Traffic Signs Manual of the Dept of Transport.

http://trafficsigns.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/07-traffic-signs-manual-2010-chapter-7-road-markings.pdf

7.7.3
The major factor in achieving parallel docking at a bus stop is the
entry and exit distance required. At a typical roadside bus stop, a
conventional 12m European standard bus requires a minimum
overall clearance of 37m of unimpeded access (see Figure 7.28);
an articulated bus needs 49m. Vehicles parked or loading
adjacent to the bus stop can result in buses failing to achieve
parallel docking or having to stop too far from the kerb, requiring
passengers to step into the carriageway to board and alight.

This is the Department of Transport's own recommendation,which I suggest is more featured in omission rather than actuality ?

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wasn't making a generalisation but from what I have observed it is mostly older drivers who I assume are senior who don't use them. I have also seen drivers whom I would also assume are senior who do use them.

From what I have observed is that there are certain drivers who do not use them as at every single stop they don't use even them even when at these stops most other drivers would use them at a particular stop. So it seems one bus drivers opinion of perectly safe would differ to another bus drivers not just a passengers. I think a tram/train style passenger operated middle door would be the best solution similar to in other cities.

Bus Atha Cliath,in line with policy regarding ageism,have recruited new staff up to 61 years of age,some of them who look it,and some very well preserved.

Looks can,and do decieve,so really should be avoided when generalising.

I would suggest that,as you carry out significant amounts of "observations" across Bus Service provision,it might be more productive were you to provide these to either,Bus Atha Cliath or the NTA,FIRST and then perhaps inform the Board as to their response/s ?