NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

SkepticQuark · 11-10-2018 06:01PM

Redriddick wrote: »

What comprises the procurement team involved in this?

Shhhhhhhh don't ask decent questions like this, let FF have their moment in the sun! The answer probably depends on just how much of a say Naughten has over what goes on in the department.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 11-10-2018 06:01PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

ESB would have the SIRO towns as a launch point. Plus they have exactly the type of hierarchical network (400KV, 220KV, 110KV, 400V, 220V) that lends itself exactly to this, all in tip top condition.

SIRO could choose to roll it out on a commercial/wholesale basis.

They are still way behind eir and have already pulled out of this process once citing non commercial viability. Get them to do it by all means but I expect it will cost more than going with eir.

Anyway we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, the Government have not even dumped the current crowd yet.

rovertom · 11-10-2018 06:02PM

I don't know much of the technical side of bb but living in rural.mayo, I note that eir have fibre coverage along a lot of the rural routes here. It's really only the last by-roads that are not served here.
Surely eir can provide the additional service cheaper than anyone else at this stage.

TheRiverman · 11-10-2018 06:02PM

Denis Naughten has done nothing but spin and spoof his way through statements and interviews about the NBP during his time as Minister,glad he's gone.

SkepticQuark · 11-10-2018 06:03PM

rovertom wrote: »

I don't know much of the technical side of bb but living in rural.mayo, I note that eir have fibre coverage along a lot of the rural routes here. It's really only the last by-roads that are not served here.
Surely eir can provide the additional service cheaper than anyone else at this stage.

But here's the thing, Eir and their new billionaire owner don't give two ****s. You have to make them give a **** for them to do anything, see the 300k rollout as an example.

Surely just handing them a big corporate subsidy is a dodgy move, more so than paying €37 for lunch....

tsue921i8wljb3 · 11-10-2018 06:03PM

rovertom wrote: »

I don't know much of the technical side of bb but living in rural.mayo, I note that eir have fibre coverage along a lot of the rural routes here. It's really only the last by-roads that are not served here.
Surely eir can provide the additional service cheaper than anyone else at this stage.

They could if they were paid to do so and the contract conditions were favourable to them.

Hitman3000 · 11-10-2018 06:08PM

fergus1001 wrote:

now does broadband collapse the government

Well Pat Breen junior minister has a few questions to answer as he organised one of the dinners between McCourt and Naughten and he was an attendee.

AirBiscuit · 11-10-2018 06:11PM

rovertom wrote: »

I don't know much of the technical side of bb but living in rural.mayo, I note that eir have fibre coverage along a lot of the rural routes here. It's really only the last by-roads that are not served here.
Surely eir can provide the additional service cheaper than anyone else at this stage.

That assumes the coverage is live: It isn't. Looking at navi's tracking spreadsheet you can see Mayo is the second least complete county so far. The rollout has been in towns that, while small (Belmullet, Newport etc.), are nowhere near "rural". All they've done is push back estimated dates here.

I'll believe in eir's ability to provide a service here when I see the KN vans more than once fortnightly

zapitastas · 11-10-2018 06:14PM

westyIrl wrote: »

I also think this is the only answer for rural broadband within a reasonable time frame. Otherwise back into protracted tendering processes, which if it happens, I would favor a state owned infrastructure.

I find it difficult to see how the current bidder will end up building the network at this stage. Too much credibility has been lost, the optics are toxic and the opposition have been given too big a window to make hay. One thing is for sure; the current state of things is an unmitigated mess.

Jim

It has been obvious for years that the entire process was a mess. Was only a matter of time for the entire process to collapse. The ex minister is an absolute fool that destroyed the tender process and now heads off into the sunset after wasting years at the helm. At this point there needs to be a state controlled infrastructure project put in place and push ahead to eradicate the digital divide

m99T · 11-10-2018 06:15PM

You reckon lads will be sitting in Secondary school in about 50 years learning about the shambles of connecting rural Ireland?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 11-10-2018 06:16PM

AirBiscuit wrote: »

That assumes the coverage is live: It isn't. Looking at navi's tracking spreadsheet you can see Mayo is the second least complete county so far. The rollout has been in towns that, while small (Belmullet, Newport etc.), are nowhere near "rural". All they've done is push back estimated dates here.

I'll believe in eir's ability to provide a service here when I see the KN vans more than once fortnightly

Unfortunately that's way out of date (May was the last time). I can't update it as I was relying on data from fibrerollout.ie which open eir seems to have abandoned.

AirBiscuit · 11-10-2018 06:17PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Unfortunately that's way out of date (May was the last time). I can't update it as I was relying on data from fibrerollout.ie which open eir seem to have abandoned.

That's the Eir way.
Even though it's out of date it still records just how much they pushed back timeframes and otherwise delayed in the past.

SkepticQuark · 11-10-2018 06:20PM

AirBiscuit wrote: »

That's the Eir way.
Even though it's out of date it still records just how much they pushed back timeframes and otherwise delayed in the past.

Ha like the fibre cabinet in my village...... Must be what, 4 years now waiting on that cabinet?

TheRiverman · 11-10-2018 06:22PM

The Government should be pleading with Mr Xavier Neil to get eir to complete this.The infrastructure is there,the KN Group, Defusion Services and eir vans are on the roads everyday,so just get it done

SkepticQuark · 11-10-2018 06:25PM

TheRiverman wrote: »

The Government should be pleading with Mr Xavier Neil to get eir to complete this.The infrastructure is there,the KN Group and Diffusion Services vans are on the roads everyday,so just get it done

Again the only time Eir took proper action in relation to rural Ireland was when the threat of Siro was present, that's why IMO they picked out those 300,000 homes for the rollout that in reality, they wouldn't have bothered doing if the NBP wasn't looming over them. With Siro disinterested, they could stick around for a bit knowing it was them or essentially nothing.

The **** was in 1999 and if we now have an opportunity to address it by creating a state-owned telecom network I'm all for it. We have a rainy day fund that in any economic collapse would be utterly useless so raid it and build infrastructure that will not only be future proofed but also and this is the key part, never allowed to fall into private hands who's sole interest is to do the bare minimum to turn profits.

Surprised the SocDems/Labour/Austerity Alliance/Greens/SF/FF haven't seen this opportunity to start calling for it.

dublinman1990 · 11-10-2018 06:28PM

Catriona Perry just said that Naughten will appear in studio on the 6.1 after the break.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 11-10-2018 06:31PM

roddy15 wrote: »

Again the only time Eir took proper action in relation to rural Ireland was when the threat of Siro was present, that's why IMO they picked out those 300,000 homes for the rollout that in reality, they wouldn't have bothered doing if the NBP wasn't looming over them. With Siro disinterested, they could stick around for a bit knowing it was them or essentially nothing.

The **** was in 1999 and if we now have an opportunity to address it by creating a state-owned telecom network I'm all for it. We have a rainy day fund that in any economic collapse would be utterly useless so raid it and build infrastructure that will not only be future proofed but also and this is the key part, never allowed to fall into private hands who's sole interest is to do the bare minimum to turn profits.

Surprised the SocDems/Labour/Austerity Alliance/Greens/SF/FF haven't seen this opportunity to start calling for it.

The only problem with that is it would be a state telecom network that could only operate in intervention areas. It could not compete where commercial ISPs are currently operating. Would it be viable?

m99T · 11-10-2018 06:31PM

And it starts again. RTE Six One.

Johnboy1951 · 11-10-2018 06:53PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

They are still way behind eir and have already pulled out of this process once citing non commercial viability. Get them to do it by all means but I expect it will cost more than going with eir.

Anyway we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, the Government have not even dumped the current crowd yet.

I think gov are going to be under severe pressure now to dump the process and move forward very quickly with a replacement process.

What affect the eir roll out of 300K could have on the necessary charges for access is another matter.
I would favour using the MANs so that the eir network does not have to be used at all.

Heck if an ESB sub-division could be created to do it, including managing the MANs as well as the roll out and billing (with ESB bill) then that would seem to cover what would be best for the country.

I can only hope the gov will now consider, not subsidisation from the EU or any other financial interests, but go ahead with it as above.
Who they use as subcontractors is immaterial ..... Eir, SIRO or anyone else.

I am unsure of the situation regarding the planning of such a roll out ..... has sufficient material been gathered to make it easy?

Johnboy1951 · 11-10-2018 06:57PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The only problem with that is it would be a state telecom network that could only operate in intervention areas. It could not compete where commercial ISPs are currently operating. Would it be viable?

Would it not be as viable as if Enet had won the tender?

m99T · 11-10-2018 07:01PM

Waiting for Imagine to release a statement on this.

westyIrl · 11-10-2018 07:10PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Would it not be as viable as if Enet had won the tender?

Same viability with either I would assume. Either way, the NBP is not viable anyways, atleast not for buildout, not without the massive state subsidy.

OpenEir should be the ones to be able to do it at the lowest cost (read: highest profit) but they're lack of interest coupled with regulated mandatory maintainence of the network, with unclear long term uptake, probably spooks their owner.

It would be interesting to see the rural price/mile at cost breakdown for both Eir and SIRO. One thing that always bothered me about the ENET tender was that logically they should have been the most expensive, given that they have both infrastructure and rural access that are degrees of magnitude less than either OpenEir or ESB.

jim

listermint · 11-10-2018 07:10PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Even if it could be done cheaper with eir? ESB have none of the infrastructure in place that eir have.

In fairness to whoever made the 300k decision in eir it has worked spectacularly well. They could not have predicted the Naughten incompetence but their plan was a masterstroke.

Masterstroke... They were setting Eir up for sale that number made it more sellable. Nothing more that was the sole interest at the time and it worked

tsue921i8wljb3 · 11-10-2018 07:11PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Would it not be as viable as if Enet had won the tender?

I agree with you that it would be preferable to have it in state ownership and I'm in no way defending the enet tender. I think that enet is (was) the worst option out of the three final bidders.

I just think from a political perspective that if the Government could come to some agreement with eir it would suit them both from a cost and ideological point of view. Now eir may not want any part of it or may ask for too much and then I think other options may come into play.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 11-10-2018 07:14PM

listermint wrote: »

Masterstroke... They were setting Eir up for sale that number made it more sellable. Nothing more that was the sole interest at the time and it worked

I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my point. It will certainly be a masterstroke if the Government come, cap in hand, asking them to name their price for extending their rural roll-out.

Ultimanemo · 11-10-2018 07:26PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

This isn't possible, there's ways around every block that could be setup and any blocks would most likely end up just blocking legitimate traffic.

Then the government should do what they do best, tax the problem
They can introduce data tax, after 250G per month, the government will impose a tax of € 1 per GB, the money then spent to subsidize 4G and WISPs to expand their network coverage, and keep doing this for 10 to 20 years until the NBP kicks in again.

Johnboy1951 · 11-10-2018 07:27PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I agree with you that it would be preferable to have it in state ownership and I'm in no way defending the enet tender. I think that enet is (was) the worst option out of the three final bidders.

I just think from a political perspective that if the Government could come to some agreement with eir it would suit them both from a cost and ideological point of view. Now eir may not want any part of it or may ask for too much and then I think other options may come into play.

"cost and ideological point of view" - yes ..... but from a political point of view, given the absolute mess this tender process has been, it just might be more politically prudent to break from all three bidders and go the only other way left (bar starting the process again from the start).

In fact I wonder if some 'cross party' group could be set up by the gov to move this forward with some form of consensus. It would be politically 'daring' but would serve the country best I think.

fritzelly · 11-10-2018 07:29PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Then the government should do what they do best, tax the problem
They can introduce data tax, after 250G per month, the government will impose a tax of € 1 per GB, the money then spent to subsidize 4G and WISPs to expand their network coverage, and keep doing this for 10 to 20 years until the NBP kicks in again.

Stop spouting absolute drivel

The high horse brigade · 11-10-2018 07:30PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Then the government should do what they do best, tax the problem
They can introduce data tax, after 250G per month, the government will impose a tax of € 1 per GB, the money then spent to subsidize 4G and WISPs to expand their network coverage, and keep doing this for 10 to 20 years until the NBP kicks in again.

Just stop with this nonsense. If wireless was easier to deliver than fibre it would have been done years ago.

grbear · 11-10-2018 07:31PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

The high horse brigade wrote: »

This isn't possible, there's ways around every block that could be setup and any blocks would most likely end up just blocking legitimate traffic.

Then the government should do what they do best, tax the problem
They can introduce data tax, after 250G per month, the government will impose a tax of € 1 per GB, the money then spent to subsidise 4G and WISPs to expand their network coverage, and keep doing this for 10 to 20 years until the NBP kicks in again.

Stop. If someone has an Xbox or a PlayStation left on auto update, which is the behaviour encouraged on those machines, they could end up with a €100+ penalty if a few games were patched in a month. It's an extreme example but a recent patch for Halo: The Master Chief Collection was 73GB.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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